Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[LKN704]

41 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

My post from 2016 about the older terminal. Well dressed travelers, air travel as an important and rare experience. Recent information shows 11% to 18% f US has never flown in  a plane, if you believe the surveys from several sources.

 

I would gauge that survey data to be accurate.

Pre-pandemic AA execs were quoted as saying that roughly 87% of their customer base only flew once a year. 

It’s true that air travel is more accessible than ever, but I would argue that air travel (especially long-haul international) is still a luxury that remains out of reach for a significant portion of the American population.

[videtur quam contuor]

My father, DOB 1905, told me his first flight was 1920 (ish-my memory is not well served on his exact point). A traveling air show came to Indianapolis and rides offered for the daring who could afford it. As a young man it was worth the money for the exhilaration of the open cockpit, roar of the engine, wind in the face, view from the sky. How many here have had THAT experience.

It was decades until his second flight, on a commercial craft.

 

[BarrenLucidity]

10 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I would gauge that survey data to be accurate.

Pre-pandemic AA execs were quoted as saying that roughly 87% of their customer base only flew once a year. 

It’s true that air travel is more accessible than ever, but I would argue that air travel (especially long-haul international) is still a luxury that remains out of reach for a significant portion of the American population.

What AA probably meant was 87% of their flyers learn their lesson to never return and the other 13% of us are captured by DFW and CLT. 

[CLT2014]

The two Ultra-Low Cost Carriers with service to Charlotte are merging.... Spirit and Frontier to become one airline (with Frontier at majority share). 
https://ir.flyfrontier.com/news-releases/news-release-details/frontier-airlines-and-spirit-airlines-combine-creating-americas

Assuming this is approved by regulators, the combined airline would serve the following cities from Charlotte (based on current service) with access to two gates in Concourse A:
Fort Lauderdale, Denver, Las Vegas, Orlando, Philadelphia, Trenton 

Unfortunately competition would be reducing on the Las Vegas and Orlando routes where Frontier and Spirit both compete today and instead would just need to undercut American Airlines (the other airline on those routes) rather than undercut each other. 

The merger should also consolidate check-in-counter space at Charlotte and could result in out-station employment synergies (i.e. you previously had 5 baggage employees at Frontier and 5 baggage employees at Spirit for Charlotte-Douglas,... but you can consolidate to 8 for the combined Charlotte ops). 

Edited February 7, 2022 by CLT2014

[LKN704]

It will be interesting to see how the DOJ examines the merger and what concessions (if any) they will ask the combined carrier to make. 

I wonder what name the carrier will take, or if they will create a brand new identity. Frontier comes across as more customer-centric, and Spirit simply has a lot of negative connotations behind their brand. It's funny...a lot of people don't know this but Frontier up until 2010 or so essentially was the JetBlue of the west...DirecTV at every seat, cheerful/friendly staff, great seats with nice legroom, and free hot snacks/meals...I only flew them once in 2007 from LaGuardia to Denver and they served a very nice hot ham and cheese croissant. 

In more Charlotte related news, AA is permanently suspending Charlotte-Reno, NV service. 

Edit: They are also permanently dropping Ithaca, NY service as well.

Edited February 8, 2022 by LKN704

[Rufus]

Complete pie-in-the-sky thought, but what are the chances that the new entity is HQ'd outside of Denver or Florida? The fact that they haven't determined caught my eye. I doubt Charlotte would be a major player, and AA would not be happy, but maybe just a fun thought. 

[csweet]

3 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Complete pie-in-the-sky thought, but what are the chances that the new entity is HQ'd outside of Denver or Florida? The fact that they haven't determined caught my eye. I doubt Charlotte would be a major player, and AA would not be happy, but maybe just a fun thought. 

No way, Spirit just built a new $250 million HQ in Dania Beach.

[SF2CLT]

Hi all, I flew in last night from Costa Rica and noticed that when going through customs American and Canadian passports were sent to one line, and foreign passports were sent to a different line. 

Is that a policy/program specific to Charlotte? Are Canadians no longer considered foreigners? I’ve never seen such a thing before elsewhere. 

[davidclt]

2 minutes ago, SF2CLT said:

Hi all, I flew in last night from Costa Rica and noticed that when going through customs American and Canadian passports were sent to one line, and foreign passports were sent to a different line. 

Is that a policy/program specific to Charlotte? Are Canadians no longer considered foreigners? I’ve never seen such a thing before elsewhere. 

No, I've seen it at IAD and DTW as well. I wish we'd add Mexican passport holders to that as well so North America would be treated like one entity. Coming from Canada at YYZ, YVR, et al. (and Ireland, the Bahamas, Aruba, and the UAE) you can clear immigration so arriving in the US is just like a domestic flight.

[LKN704]

33 minutes ago, SF2CLT said:

Hi all, I flew in last night from Costa Rica and noticed that when going through customs American and Canadian passports were sent to one line, and foreign passports were sent to a different line. 

Is that a policy/program specific to Charlotte? Are Canadians no longer considered foreigners? I’ve never seen such a thing before elsewhere. 

Canadians are foreigners, yes, but in the context of US (and Canadian) border screening both countries generally screen US/Canadian travelers as one, and "foreigners" generally refers to third-country nationals, as in an individual who is not a US/Canadian citizen, or PR holder. 

Nothing specific to Charlotte. IIRC, Dulles/LAX/DFW also feed Canadians/US travelers into one lane, and I'm sure there are more that I cannot recall. Likewise, in Toronto and Montreal, there is a dedicated lane for both US/Canadian passport holders. Strangely, Vancouver did not have a US/Canadian lane but rather a Canadian lane and a lane for Foreigners, but the greeter at the entrance to the immigration hall last time I went was directing American passport holders into the Canadian lane. 

In many ways, the US and Canadian governments are moving towards a joint-visa policy. A couple of years back, both governments signed a North American Perimeter agreement designed to streamline and align policies and information sharing regarding customs/border regulations. Through the agreement, the US government essentially forced the Canadian government to implement their own version of ESTA (the US electronic travel authorization program for travelers from Visa Waiver countries), known as the Canada eTA. 

For some nationalities (I know Brazil is one), the Canadian government will even waive their visa requirement if the traveler is in possession of a valid US Visa, and simply allow them to apply for an eTA instead. 

Way way way off topic, but a lot of Americans truly do not recognize how integrated the two governments are. It's a fascinating research activity if anyone is ever bored at night...

Back to Charlotte, I know US used to carry a ton of Florida/Caribbean-Canadian traffic through CLT, so maybe that is a reason why CLT has dedicated signage and others do not. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by LKN704

[SF2CLT]

11 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

Canadians are foreigners, yes, but in the context of US (and Canadian) border screening both countries generally screen US/Canadian travelers as one, and "foreigners" generally refers to third-country nationals, as in an individual who is not a US/Canadian citizen, or PR holder. 

Nothing specific to Charlotte. IIRC, Dulles/LAX/DFW also feed Canadians/US travelers into one lane, and I'm sure there are more that I cannot recall. Likewise, in Toronto and Montreal, there is a dedicated lane for both US/Canadian passport holders. Strangely, Vancouver did not have a US/Canadian lane but rather a Canadian lane and a lane for Foreigners, but the greeter at the entrance to the immigration hall last time I went was directing American passport holders into the Canadian lane. 

In many ways, the US and Canadian governments are moving towards a joint-visa policy. A couple of years back, both governments signed a North American Perimeter agreement designed to streamline and align policies and information sharing regarding customs/border regulations. Through the agreement, the US government essentially forced the Canadian government to implement their own version of ESTA (the US electronic travel authorization program for travelers from Visa Waiver countries), known as the Canada eTA. 

For some nationalities (I know Brazil is one), the Canadian government will even waive their visa requirement if the traveler is in possession of a valid US Visa, and simply allow them to apply for an eTA instead. 

Way way way off topic, but a lot of Americans truly do not recognize how integrated the two governments are. It's a fascinating research activity if anyone is ever bored at night...

Back to Charlotte, I know US used to carry a ton of Florida/Caribbean-Canadian traffic through CLT, so maybe that is a reason why CLT has dedicated signage and others do not. 

Here's a photo I found from the web of Toronto's airport: 

Thanks! I’ve never been to Canada so that is interesting to see, but that all makes sense. 

[KJHburg]

My South African friend took these.   Groot werk!  (in his native language)

 

[Miesian Corners]

On 2/7/2022 at 6:48 PM, LKN704 said:

 

I wonder what name the carrier will take, or if they will create a brand new identity. Frontier comes across as more customer-centric, and Spirit simply has a lot of negative connotations behind their brand. It's funny...a lot of people don't know this but Frontier up until 2010 or so essentially was the JetBlue of the west...DirecTV at every seat, cheerful/friendly staff, great seats with nice legroom, and free hot snacks/meals...I only flew them once in 2007 from LaGuardia to Denver and they served a very nice hot ham and cheese croissant. 

"Fearit" is currently the widely-speculated name of the combined carrier. 

[KJHburg]

Well this is good news.  I did not know the Airport 5K was a fundraiser for this program and this is a good one.  Here is where you can watch the video 

CLT Newsroom - Connections Don't Just Happen at the Terminal (mediaroom.com)

@CLTAirport

 

Proceeds from the #CLTairport Runway 5K gave Adair Pineda the chance to go to

@cpcc

on a Airport Opportunity Scholarship. He now works with the Aviation Dept. HVAC team. Since its 2018 launch, the scholarship has provided more than $88,000 to six local HS students. #CLTconnects

Edited February 20, 2022 by KJHburg

[csweet]

Looks like AC is bringing back YYZ 2x daily on May 1!

[kermit]

Anyone know if it is still possible to walk from the daily deck to the terminal?

[HopHead]

5 minutes ago, kermit said:

Anyone know if it is still possible to walk from the daily deck to the terminal?

Yes, you can... I actually did it yesterday. You have to cut through the new hourly/rental deck. 

51 minutes ago, csweet said:

Looks like AC is bringing back YYZ 2x daily on May 1!

For those that don't speak airline, that's daily nonstop service to Montreal on Air Canada 2x daily returning on May 1st

[deleted account]

8 minutes ago, kermit said:

Anyone know if it is still possible to walk from the daily deck to the terminal?

You absolutely can. How about some pictures of the new lobby construction while there? Saw some video on the news last night and it looked great. 

[CltFlyer]

57 minutes ago, csweet said:

Looks like AC is bringing back YYZ 2x daily on May 1!

It's actually one daily in May and June going to 2 daily  Unfortunate in July.  Unfortunately we are stuck with the CRJ-200 instead of the E175 (which we were seeing pre-pandemic) through at least October.  For non-av geeks.  This means no first class and a significantly less comfortable product, but it is definitely good to have them back!  

Also a minor correction to the post above.  YYZ is Toronto.  Air Canada has never flown CLT- Montreal (YUL) as far as I know.  However, they did start RDU-YUL pre-pandemic and this is coming back in July.  They had also mentioned that CLT was high on their list for Montreal service, though this could have been political talk.  AA has recently increased their equipment on both CLT-YYZ/YUL.  4x Airbus 319 to YYZ and 2x 319 YUL (first time ever).  

[csweet]

10 minutes ago, HopHead said:

Yes, you can... I actually did it yesterday. You have to cut through the new hourly/rental deck. 

For those that don't speak airline, that's daily nonstop service to Montreal on Air Canada 2x daily returning on May 1st

It is actually Toronto   AC just added new routes from YUL (Montreal) today, wish CLT made the cut.

New US routes are Montreal to Atlanta and Detroit, Toronto to Salt Lake City, and Vancouver to Austin.

 

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2022-02-22-Air-Canada-Affirms-Market-Leadership-by-Expanding-its-North-American-Network-this-Summer-as-Recovery-Accelerates

[HopHead]

Just now, csweet said:

It is actually Toronto   AC just added new routes from YUL (Montreal) today, wish CLT made the cut.

New US routes are Montreal to Atlanta and Detroit, Toronto to Salt Lake City, and Vancouver to Austin.

 

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2022-02-22-Air-Canada-Affirms-Market-Leadership-by-Expanding-its-North-American-Network-this-Summer-as-Recovery-Accelerates

Ha. See, I can't even speak airline either!

[CLT2014]

Anybody know if another tenant is planned for the restaurant/retail space on the second level of the newer A-North Concourse? I was surprised to find the Starbucks completely closed down and equipment removed, but I understand there are staffing issues for HSM Host. Panera is the only decent breakfast / coffee option now in that concourse. It would be great if a local coffee shop could take over that space instead in partnership with HSM Host. 

Also, it looks like Delta has started operating some flights out of A-North via gate A22 that historically was only used by JetBlue. With JetBlue at only one or two flights per day now, Delta is using the gate for morning departures. 

Also, the "Interconnected" art piece in the A-north connector appears to have the video screens turned off. Is this just temporary during the construction going on in the new CLT Club lounge to avoid damage? 

Edited February 22, 2022 by CLT2014

[CltFlyer]

6 minutes ago, csweet said:

It is actually Toronto   AC just added new routes from YUL (Montreal) today, wish CLT made the cut.

New US routes are Montreal to Atlanta and Detroit, Toronto to Salt Lake City, and Vancouver to Austin.

 

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2022-02-22-Air-Canada-Affirms-Market-Leadership-by-Expanding-its-North-American-Network-this-Summer-as-Recovery-Accelerates

CLT-Montreal was talked about when they added RDU-Montreal, but it may have just been political speech.

This expansion seems to be largely aimed at Delta.  Which is interesting.

[elrodvt]

33 minutes ago, CltFlyer said:

It's actually one daily in May and June going to 2 daily  Unfortunate in July.  Unfortunately we are stuck with the CRJ-200 instead of the E175 (which we were seeing pre-pandemic) through at least October.  For non-av geeks.  This means no first class and a significantly less comfortable product, but it is definitely good to have them back!  

Also a minor correction to the post above.  YYZ is Toronto.  Air Canada has never flown CLT- Montreal (YUL) as far as I know.  However, they did start RDU-YUL pre-pandemic and this is coming back in July.  They had also mentioned that CLT was high on their list for Montreal service, though this could have been political talk.  AA has recently increased their equipment on both CLT-YYZ/YUL.  4x Airbus 319 to YYZ and 2x 319 YUL (first time ever).  

It's a nice drive from BTV to Montreal and Burlington is a great place to spend a weekend in the summer. Clt to btv is direct twice daily I believe. Still I wish for a direct Montreal also. One of my favorite cities to visit in NA. Want to go up for the F1 race sometime.

[HopHead]

6 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

It's a nice drive from BTV to Montreal and Burlington is a great place to spend a weekend in the summer. Clt to btv is direct twice daily I believe. Still I wish for a direct Montreal also. One of my favorite cities to visit in NA. Want to go up for the F1 race sometime.

I flew CLT to Burlington last year at the end of summer. Beautiful area of the country (not far from where my profile pic is brewed too lol). We were there probably a few weeks too early for the fall foliage. Definitely plan to head up there again.