Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[tozmervo]

2 hours ago, LKN704 said:

"...as the nation's 16th largest city..." 

I wonder if Indy's (very nice) airport plays announcements from the mayor over the PA welcoming people to the nation's 15th largest city. 

I hear announcements like this in other airports for sure. I heard one in MIA just a couple of weeks ago and ABQ before that. It's weird and a little off-putting no matter what city you're in. It's like mayors and governors putting their names on "welcome to" signs. 

[deleted account]

2 hours ago, kayman said:

Huh? How? That's the only way to prove that it exists if a constituent is complaining to the government entity and officials. Last time, I recall unless it's changed during the most recent legislative session, North Carolina is a one-consent state to recording or photo evidence.  Also if no one other than the said photographer is in the photo that shouldn't be any concern at all. 

I would keep complaining with documentation. Also directly contacting Charlotte City Council members will aid in this paper trail validity. I would even attend in-person or virtually a Charlotte City Council meeting to voice my concerns. A sqeaky wheel will get the oil no matter how much persistent required. 

• Photographing private property from within the public domain is not illegal, with the exception of an area that is generally regarded as private, such as a bedroom, bathroom, or hotel room.^[54] In some states there is no definition of "private," in which case, there is a general expectation of privacy.^[58] Should the subjects not attempt to conceal their private affairs, their actions immediately become public to a photographer using normal photographic equipment.^{[citation needed]}

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law}

^{Generally, I don't think it's a great idea to take pictures in a public restroom. I wouldn't be thrilled to see it happening and wouldn't necessarily believe an explanation from someone doing it.} 

Edited March 17, 2022 by JBS

[LKN704]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

I hear announcements like this in other airports for sure. I heard one in MIA just a couple of weeks ago and ABQ before that. It's weird and a little off-putting no matter what city you're in. It's like mayors and governors putting their names on "welcome to" signs. 

I'm not talking about the welcome announcement per se, but rather the part of the old CLT announcement that said "as America's 16th largest city".  I have not been to the airport in ABQ, but I can almost guarantee the welcome announcement does not include a blurb from the mayor welcoming travelers to "America's 32nd largest city". 

It's cringey and gives off an appearance that the city is in the midst of some identity crisis and does not know what it wants to be/what it wants to be known for IMO. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by LKN704

[Binbin98]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:40 AM, LKN704 said:

I've brought up the state of the bathrooms numerous times here, and while I lived in Charlotte I even wrote to the airport complaining about it...not only is it embarrassing but I view it as unsanitary and a safety risk. The bathrooms are quite literally like something you would see at an amusement park or state fair.

CLT doesn't care...AA doesn't care...it's disgusting. I mentioned this about a year ago on this thread, but the restrooms on E are even worse...there was literally a used moldy dishtowel that was sitting on the sink vanity, and paper towel rolls laying on the floor like they were used as pretend footballs. Soap dispensers were somehow torn off the wall and were just laying around the vanity. No urinal partitions. 

The "brand new" bathrooms on the A North pier are equally as bad...moldy orange slime growing on the tile backsplash, mysterious brown smears all over the sink.

I get it...airports are busy places and it's hard to shut a bathroom down for cleaning in the middle of the day, and yet somehow other airports (even busier ones) are able to make it work.

It honestly feels like every airport American is hubbed at starts to feel neglected (with the exception of Dallas). I live in Miami and the airport here has similar issues along with crazy people starting fights in it for some reason. I usually use Fort Lauderdale to fly out of despite it being a longer drive away for these very reasons. That being said whenever I’m going to see family in North Carolina it’s always a pleasure flying through CLT.

[Urban Cowboy]

7 hours ago, JBS said:

^{Generally, I don't think it's a great idea to take pictures in a public restroom. I wouldn't be thrilled to see it happening and wouldn't necessarily believe an explanation from someone doing it.} 

"No, I swear officer - I was just taking photos of the floor"  

[KJHburg]

CLT is my favorite airport of late domestically.  LAX is disjointed.  MIA is just crazy.  DFW is too spread out and always come in at one gate and have to get on that tram to go half way around the airport.  EWR dont like it either.  Next time I am over there I will check out the bathrooms but I get in and get out so quick.   IAH in Houston is disjointed and parts are nice parts not. 

Do like Dallas Love Field and of course Vegas. 

[xapostrophe]

18 hours ago, KJHburg said:

CLT is my favorite airport of late domestically.  LAX is disjointed.  MIA is just crazy.  DFW is too spread out and always come in at one gate and have to get on that tram to go half way around the airport.  EWR dont like it either.  Next time I am over there I will check out the bathrooms but I get in and get out so quick.   IAH in Houston is disjointed and parts are nice parts not. 

Do like Dallas Love Field and of course Vegas. 

Lax is awful.  Come into the AA gates and there are tunnels that are frankly scary.   Or your can go to the new international gates but it's random corridor hallways until you pop out in the terminal.  

 

Easy to get lost.

[LKN704]

Very slow day at the office, so I took the liberty of compiling the roster of all other airline (OAL) flights at CLT this summer. On the day I selected (11 July) there are currently scheduled to be 74 daily flights. Thanks to industry up-gauging, mainline flights now consist of 54% of all OAL flights from CLT. 

I can't recall the exact number of OAL flights in Summer 2019, but IIRC it was much closer to 100. I feel like United is roughly at the same frequency with their service as they were pre-pandemic, although I don't ever recall there being so much United mainline in Charlotte, so that is definite upgrade. 

I feel like Delta used to be at maybe 35-37 flights daily, and there seems to be some frequencies lost on both Detroit and Twin Cities services. CLT lost nonstop service on Delta to Cincinnati during the pandemic, so that was a drop in 3 flights daily. While I don't directly connect it with yield, it is interesting to note that for all mainline flights (with the exception of Salt Lake), Delta uses their worst mainline product to CLT (the 717) which lacks the bells and whistles that people expect when flying Delta and has the smallest First class cabin. 

Southwest has (temporarily?) dropped service to both Houston and Denver from CLT, but it does look like CLT gained a frequency to Chicago and Nashville so there doesn't seem to be a net decrease in flights. With their labor/aircraft shortage, I wouldn't be surprised to see their summer schedule from CLT further reduced in the coming weeks.

Air Canada no longer flies larger aircraft to CLT (they went from E175s back to CRJs), although it looks like larger aircraft will resume in November. It makes sense, as the flight was heavily dependent on onward connections ex-Toronto (especially to Asia) rather than just Toronto traffic, and international long-haul traffic is still down. AA is flying CLT-YYZ with a whopping 4x daily mainline frequency, which I think is the most capacity the route has ever seen. 

United: 20 daily flights (6 mainline)

DEN: 1x A319, 1x E175 

IAD: 3x E175, 1x A320

IAH: 3x E175

EWR: 1x 7M8, 1x 739, 5x E175

ORD: 2X CRJ-550, 1x A319, 1x A320

Air Canada: 2 daily flights

YYZ: 2x CRJ-200

Delta: 30 daily flights (16 mainline)

ATL: 8x 717

BOS: 3x E175

DTW: 4x 717

MSP: 3x 717

JFK: 4x CRJ-900, 1x E175

LGA: 6x CRJ-900

SLC: 1x 738 (They had scheduled two daily flights for this summer but just pulled it this weekend from the schedule it seems)

Southwest: 9 daily flights 

BWI: 1x 73G, 1x 738

MDW: 2x 738, 1x 73G

DAL: 1x 738

BNA: 2x 73G

STL: 1x 738

Spirit: 4 daily flights 

FLL: 1x A320

LAS: 1x A320

MCO: 1x A321, 1x A319

JetBlue: 2 daily flights 

BOS: 2x E190

Lufthansa: 1 daily flight 

MUC: 1x A350

Frontier: 16 flights weekly (on average roughly 2 flights a day)

MCO: 2x weekly A320

DEN: 1x A320

TTN: 3x weekly A320

PHL: 10x weekly A320

Contour: 4 daily flights 

BKW: 2x ERJ

MSL:  2x ERJ

[csweet]

2 hours ago, LKN704 said:

 

Very slow day at the office, so I took the liberty of compiling the roster of all other airline (OAL) flights at CLT this summer. On the day I selected (11 July) there are currently scheduled to be 74 daily flights. Thanks to industry up-gauging, mainline flights now consist of 54% of all OAL flights from CLT. 

I can't recall the exact number of OAL flights in Summer 2019, but IIRC it was much closer to 100. I feel like United is roughly at the same frequency with their service as they were pre-pandemic, although I don't ever recall there being so much United mainline in Charlotte, so that is definite upgrade. 

I feel like Delta used to be at maybe 35-37 flights daily, and there seems to be some frequencies lost on both Detroit and Twin Cities services. CLT lost nonstop service on Delta to Cincinnati during the pandemic, so that was a drop in 3 flights daily. While I don't directly connect it with yield, it is interesting to note that for all mainline flights (with the exception of Salt Lake), Delta uses their worst mainline product to CLT (the 717) which lacks the bells and whistles that people expect when flying Delta and has the smallest First class cabin. 

Southwest has (temporarily?) dropped service to both Houston and Denver from CLT, but it does look like CLT gained a frequency to Chicago and Nashville so there doesn't seem to be a net decrease in flights. With their labor/aircraft shortage, I wouldn't be surprised to see their summer schedule from CLT further reduced in the coming weeks.

Air Canada no longer flies larger aircraft to CLT (they went from E175s back to CRJs), although it looks like larger aircraft will resume in November. It makes sense, as the flight was heavily dependent on onward connections ex-Toronto (especially to Asia) rather than just Toronto traffic, and international long-haul traffic is still down. AA is flying CLT-YYZ with a whopping 4x daily mainline frequency, which I think is the most capacity the route has ever seen. 

United: 20 daily flights (6 mainline)

DEN: 1x A319, 1x E175 

IAD: 3x E175, 1x A320

IAH: 3x E175

EWR: 1x 7M8, 1x 739, 5x E175

ORD: 2X CRJ-550, 1x A319, 1x A320

Air Canada: 2 daily flights

YYZ: 2x CRJ-200

Delta: 30 daily flights (16 mainline)

ATL: 8x 717

BOS: 3x E175

DTW: 4x 717

MSP: 3x 717

JFK: 4x CRJ-900, 1x E175

LGA: 6x CRJ-900

SLC: 1x 738 (They had scheduled two daily flights for this summer but just pulled it this weekend from the schedule it seems)

Southwest: 9 daily flights 

BWI: 1x 73G, 1x 738

MDW: 2x 738, 1x 73G

DAL: 1x 738

BNA: 2x 73G

STL: 1x 738

Spirit: 4 daily flights 

FLL: 1x A320

LAS: 1x A320

MCO: 1x A321, 1x A319

JetBlue: 2 daily flights 

BOS: 2x E190

Lufthansa: 1 daily flight 

MUC: 1x A350

Frontier: 16 flights weekly (on average roughly 2 flights a day)

MCO: 2x weekly A320

DEN: 1x A320

TTN: 3x weekly A320

PHL: 10x weekly A320

Contour: 4 daily flights 

BKW: 2x ERJ

MSL:  2x ERJ

Thanks for pulling this! No Volaris this summer?

Also hate to see no PHX,DEN, or HOU for WN. Can't help but think things are to come for WN and F9 at CLT. 

[LKN704]

1 hour ago, csweet said:

Thanks for pulling this! No Volaris this summer?

Also hate to see no PHX,DEN, or HOU for WN. Can't help but think things are to come for WN and F9 at CLT. 

Thanks! I forgot about Volaris, they are still at twice weekly. 

[KJHburg]

I hate Southwest got rid of their HOU flights as that is a mini Latin American hub for them. 

[southernnorthcarolina]

To return to the matter of self-congratulatory announcements over airport public address systems, it seems that many cities can't resist subjecting their captive audiences to a little civic boosterism.

A few years ago -- well, a couple of decades, actually -- I landed in Portland, Oregon.  Portland boosters, it seems, are very sensitive about their reputation of being a rainy city.  More than once during my trip, I heard natives refer to rain as "Portland sunshine."  It wasn't an announcement over the airport PA syatem, but rather a ginormous exhibit in the terminal arrival area listing all the major US cities which got more annual rainfall than Portland.  I recall that Atlanta was mentioned prominently.  A little defensive, maybe?

I imagine the exhibit is no longer there.  Portland has far bigger problems than rain.

[gman430]

Southwest also dropped their HOU service here at GSP from seven days a week to just Saturdays so CLT is not alone. 

[videtur quam contuor]

I knew someone who lived in Portland and referred to the late autumn-winter period as the "Big Dark". As in Seattle the shorter sunlight than ours in those periods, the persistent clouds and damp drizzle and general depressing weather has an influence on visitors. Total rain is not the issue. The clouds and dampness for weeks with the short days has an effect. Lewis and Clark camped near there at the mouth of the Columbia River for the winter before their return to the East. It was a miserable period of the epic journey at what they called Fort Clatsop. Perhaps the Portland Chamber should edit this wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Clatsop

35 minutes ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

To return to the matter of self-congratulatory announcements over airport public address systems, it seems that many cities can't resist subjecting their captive audiences to a little civic boosterism.

A few years ago -- well, a couple of decades, actually -- I landed in Portland, Oregon.  Portland boosters, it seems, are very sensitive about their reputation of being a rainy city.  More than once during my trip, I heard natives refer to rain as "Portland sunshine."  It wasn't an announcement over the airport PA syatem, but rather a ginormous exhibit in the terminal arrival area listing all the major US cities which got more annual rainfall than Portland.  I recall that Atlanta was mentioned prominently.  A little defensive, maybe?

I imagine the exhibit is no longer there.  Portland has far bigger problems than rain.

 

[LKN704]

1 hour ago, tarhoosier said:

I knew someone who lived in Portland and referred to the late autumn-winter period as the "Big Dark". As in Seattle the shorter sunlight than ours in those periods, the persistent clouds and damp drizzle and general depressing weather has an influence on visitors. Total rain is not the issue. The clouds and dampness for weeks with the short days has an effect. Lewis and Clark camped near there at the mouth of the Columbia River for the winter before their return to the East. It was a miserable period of the epic journey at what they called Fort Clatsop. Perhaps the Portland Chamber should edit this wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Clatsop

 

It’s funny…I recognize I am in the minority but warm, sunny weather makes me depressed. I thrive in cold, dreary climates. The colder, the better. I would rather it be say 20 degrees everyday than 75. Love wearing layers, and something about the gray skies makes me über productive. I dread the coming Spring/Summer months…very depressing to me. 

[deleted account]

16 hours ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

imagine the exhibit is no longer there.  Portland has far bigger problems than rain.

Not trying to be argumentative but Portland is a fantastic city. Don't believe everything you see on tv.

https://explorewashingtonpark.org/

Edited March 22, 2022 by JBS

[CltFlyer]

9 hours ago, csweet said:

Thanks for pulling this! No Volaris this summer?

Also hate to see no PHX,DEN, or HOU for WN. Can't help but think things are to come for WN and F9 at CLT. 

Supposedly CLT-DEN is a temporary suspension and will come back once they have a healthy amount of 737 MAX-7s.  HOU likely comes back at some point too, but it will likely be once WNs Latin American portfolio is fully back.   Their next schedule extension (September through November) will be on March 30th, so we should know more then...  It would be nice to PHX back at some point, but I'd say that's a wild card at best.  

Spirit must be putting an absolute beating on Frontier at CLT.  Given that they are at 2x daily on MCO to Frontier's 2 weekly and now have seemed to run them off of LAS.  At least if the merger goes through, it won't make much a difference anyways.  

[Temeteron]

8 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

Supposedly CLT-DEN is a temporary suspension and will come back once they have a healthy amount of 737 MAX-7s.  HOU likely comes back at some point too, but it will likely be once WNs Latin American portfolio is fully back.   Their next schedule extension (September through November) will be on March 30th, so we should know more then...  It would be nice to PHX back at some point, but I'd say that's a wild card at best.  

Spirit must be putting an absolute beating on Frontier at CLT.  Given that they are at 2x daily on MCO to Frontier's 2 weekly and now have seemed to run them off of LAS.  At least if the merger goes through, it won't make much a difference anyways.  

Why can’t they use A321 for DEN?

[TCLT]

31 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

Why can’t they use A321 for DEN?

That's a Southwest suspension. No Airbuses there.

[davidclt]

15 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

I knew someone who lived in Portland and referred to the late autumn-winter period as the "Big Dark". As in Seattle the shorter sunlight than ours in those periods, the persistent clouds and damp drizzle and general depressing weather has an influence on visitors. Total rain is not the issue. The clouds and dampness for weeks with the short days has an effect.

When I lived in Seattle, I was glad for the clouds in the winter. Because the sun never got high in the sky, it was always in your eyes if it wasn't cloudy. Winter of '97-'98 we went 121 days without seeing the sun.

14 hours ago, LKN704 said:

It’s funny…I recognize I am in the minority but warm, sunny weather makes me depressed. I thrive in cold, dreary climates. The colder, the better. I would rather it be say 20 degrees everyday than 75. Love wearing layers, and something about the gray skies makes me über productive. I dread the coming Spring/Summer months…very depressing to me. 

I prefer cold to warm too. You can always put on more layers to get warm but when it's warm, you can only take off so much to get cool (or face consequences).

[LKN704]

10 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

Supposedly CLT-DEN is a temporary suspension and will come back once they have a healthy amount of 737 MAX-7s.  HOU likely comes back at some point too, but it will likely be once WNs Latin American portfolio is fully back.   Their next schedule extension (September through November) will be on March 30th, so we should know more then...  It would be nice to PHX back at some point, but I'd say that's a wild card at best.  

Spirit must be putting an absolute beating on Frontier at CLT.  Given that they are at 2x daily on MCO to Frontier's 2 weekly and now have seemed to run them off of LAS.  At least if the merger goes through, it won't make much a difference anyways.  

One thing that I think really hurts Frontier over Spirit at airports serving medium/larger cities is their sporadic schedule a la Allegiant. 

Such a strategy may work for smaller cities where the twice weekly Frontier flight to say MCO may be the only option to get to/from MCO nonstop, but in CLT it's a bit difficult to compete against AA's 10x daily flights and  Spirit's 2x daily flights when you only fly CLT-MCO twice weekly...even Allegiant has a better schedule to/from the Orlando area from Concord. 

[Lemskroob]

On 3/21/2022 at 1:06 PM, LKN704 said:

 

, Delta uses their worst mainline product to CLT (the 717) which lacks the bells and whistles that people expect when flying Delta and has the smallest First class cabin. 

As a Delta FF, the 717 is not their worst product. Its a 2-3 configuration, which many FFs love because it means only one middle seat at each row. Plus, Delta has announced they are going to upgrade all their cabins to include IFEs. 

 

No, their worst product is the old 737-800s they fly around, which have some of the most ancient, yellowed, broken, torn-up interiors i have seen on a major airline in a very long while.   

  

Ultimately, i would love to get the A220 here in CLT, but for now, the 717 is fine (if no the 737-900)

 

Quote

 

JetBlue: 2 daily flights 

BOS: 2x E190

 

 

Also, JB definitely also has NYC flights, not just BOS

Edited March 22, 2022 by Lemskroob

[gman430]

4 hours ago, Temeteron said:

Why can’t they use A321 for DEN?

Because Southwest only uses Boeing 737’s in their entire fleet. 

[CLT2014]

36 minutes ago, Lemskroob said:

Also, JB definitely also has NYC flights, not just BOS

JetBlue canceled the CLT - JFK route on their own metal back in 2019; https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/08/01/jetblue-will-end-new-york-charlotte-service-so-fares-will-risebut-will-spirit-keep-the-lid-on/

 

They codeshare with American Airlines on the route though as part of their Northeast partnership, so they offer their code on 8 - 10 flights per day. AA is the operator though.

[Lemskroob]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

JetBlue canceled the CLT - JFK route on their own metal back in 2019; https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/08/01/jetblue-will-end-new-york-charlotte-service-so-fares-will-risebut-will-spirit-keep-the-lid-on/

 

They codeshare with American Airlines on the route though as part of their Northeast partnership, so they offer their code on 8 - 10 flights per day. AA is the operator though.

ah, got it. i saw it was 'bookable' on their website.