Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[Andyc545]

Well....I for one think this is a smart move....anything that puts the airline on more firm financial footing, the better for Charlotte.

Looking at what he said about the performance of Charlotte and Philidelphia, Philly has 80% more revenue than Charlotte. Charlotte is growing at 9.0% annually and Philly is growing at 5.1% annually....at this rate, Charlotte would equal Philly O/D revenue in 2023.....of course that was using basic straight-line assumptions, but I guess its realistic to assume that Charlotte won't see the same level of transcontinental service as Philly until 2020 or so...

Well, also you would have to account Philly's overcrowdedness, and the effect of other airlines. If it was my mathematical opinion, I would see the graph more as a expontial than line, or in lament terms, as time goes on, the increasingly closer we would be to Philly, given that we have a 3rd runway, lots of room for expansion and add'l gates, and USAirways being our only main hub. I would say it would be more like 2015, but of course there are a ton of other factors, aside from what I am attributing to.

[Miguel]

I wonder how many flights Charlotte can pick up from Pittsburgh?

12 more gates on concourse E just opened up. 12 gates is about 40 additional flights, if utilized properly.

Maybe USAirways can now start expanding Charlotte, now that we have the aircraft {unfortunatly for Pittsburgh}.

USAirways future longhaul fleet {Transatlantic/pacific}

2: A-340 {2009}

19: A-330 {2009}

22: A-350 {2014}

10: 767

10+: 757 {2009}

Right now, I believe USAirways longhaul fleet consist of:

9: A-330

10: 767

3+: 757

Philadelphia is pretty much maxed out of international gates for USAirways. Now that USAirways is pulling down PIT, maybe Charlotte can get enough connection flights for the rumored Paris/Rome/Dublin/Vienna-Charlotte

Edited October 3, 2007 by Miguel

[Ryepow]

Not to be negative, but I am pretty sure they will add more international flights out of PHL at off peak times before they add them in CLT, for the simple reason of more O&D traffic. Figure a 8pm flight arrives in Europe around 8am the next day with the time change. Add a flight at say 8am in when gates are empty in PHL that arrives around 8pm in Europe. The return would leave around midnight in Europe and arrive around 5am into PHL.

[Miguel]

Not to be negative, but I am pretty sure they will add more international flights out of PHL at off peak times before they add them in CLT, for the simple reason of more O&D traffic. Figure a 8pm flight arrives in Europe around 8am the next day with the time change. Add a flight at say 8am in when gates are empty in PHL that arrives around 8pm in Europe. The return would leave around midnight in Europe and arrive around 5am into PHL.

Philadelphia is a depeaked hub already.

USAirways is not the only carrier to to use the international gates: Southwest, Delta, ETC.

So yes, Philadelphia is pretty much maxed out, and Kirby has stated {forgot where I read this} that USAirways might have to reduce frequencies or cities {to Europe} if they can not get a hold of enough gates. There is a gate dispute between Southwest, and USAirways for international gates.

Also, USAirways plans to add at least three new international destinations per year.

Vienna/Paris/Rome/Dublin-Charlotte would be good routes. especially Dublin-Charlotte 4X weekly!

Edited October 4, 2007 by Miguel

[moving uptown]

Not to be negative, but I am pretty sure they will add more international flights out of PHL at off peak times before they add them in CLT, for the simple reason of more O&D traffic. Figure a 8pm flight arrives in Europe around 8am the next day with the time change. Add a flight at say 8am in when gates are empty in PHL that arrives around 8pm in Europe. The return would leave around midnight in Europe and arrive around 5am into PHL.

those double daily flights work when there is enough o@d traffic but that 8am departure does not allow for any connecting traffic. I think you are probably right that phl will get some off peak timed departures at some point.

[HopHead]

Philadelphia is a depeaked hub already.

USAirways is not the only carrier to to use the international gates: Southwest, Delta, ETC.

So yes, Philadelphia is pretty much maxed out, and Kirby has stated {forgot where I read this} that USAirways might have to reduce frequencies or cities {to Europe} if they can not get a hold of enough gates. There is a gate dispute between Southwest, and USAirways for international gates.

Also, USAirways plans to add at least three new international destinations per year.

Vienna/Paris/Rome/Dublin-Charlotte would be good routes. especially Dublin-Charlotte 4X weekly!

I didn't know that Southwest had international routes? I thought they were all domestic.

I would really like to see the Vienna/Paris/Rome/Dublin routes though.

[Andyc545]

I didn't know that Southwest had international routes? I thought they were all domestic.

I would really like to see the Vienna/Paris/Rome/Dublin routes though.

They don't have international flights, but they do fly to Hawaii. Of course there's no direct flight to Hawaii through from Phili though. Acording to the PHL Airport website, the international flights are: Air France, British Airways, Lufthansa, and US Airways.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Andyc545

[Miesian Corners]

^Southwest is a domestic carrier. They don't even go to Mexico or Canada. They also do not have ETOPS aircraft (Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards) needed for a flight nearly four hours over the open Pacific. Beyond that, Hawaii is not a big money maker. Kind of like Orlando, Las Vegas and Nassau--they are leisure desinations that appease frequent flyers.

Here's the story in regards to Delta and Southwest in PHL. The PHL airport authority would like to move Delta to Concourse A so that it can begin an expansion project for Concourse D (Southwest and Delta are the users of Concourse D). If Delta was to be moved, utilization of A gates for international would be impeded. With that in mind, US gave PHL an ultimatum: give Delta gates on A and you'll get no new service to ATH, ZRH, and BRU. The city caved and the service began. The carrot is again being dangled for PHL with the promise of PEK, TLV, and WAW. If Delta is moved, the the airline cancels the service.

What does this mean for CLT? Probably nothing. As well as the hub is doing, there is simply no economic sense to serve smaller European cities from a medium-sized North American city. Connections aren't the end all be all. You need decent O&D as well as connection opportunities. Big European cities are a different story. If and when the equipment becomes available, CDG and BBI (the new Berlin Brandenburg International which opens in 2009) could begin from CLT. As I stated earlier, there are Star Alliance partners that have expressed interest in CLT, but they themselves also are short of aircraft at the moment. And BMI would not add a new city, just a new airport (LHR in London).

Edited October 4, 2007 by Miesian Corners

[HopHead]

those double daily flights work when there is enough o@d traffic but that 8am departure does not allow for any connecting traffic. I think you are probably right that phl will get some off peak timed departures at some point.

I think that will probably be the case as well. Though, I still would like to see a Paris or Rome route added too. I think there is way to make that work.

One thing I would like to see more out of Charlotte is a west coast variety. Right now we have San Diego, San Fran, LA, Seattle, Vegas, Phoenix and Portland (which I believe is seasonal). Why can't we add something like Austin, Alburquerque (sp?), San Jose/Oakland or Sacramento? Nothing like having to fly to Phoenix to get to Austin. I don't believe Philly has that direct flight either. Also, is Toronto the only Canadian city we fly to?

[Raintree21]

The CBJ is reporting that the US Airline Pilots Association will establish its headquarters in Charlotte. The president ofthe association says that USAPA decided to locate its headquarters in Charlotte because of the size of the local pilot population and favorable costs of operation.

[RiverwoodCLT]

I believe in years to come Charlotte Douglas will see more international fights because 1. Is cheaper for airlines to fly out of. 2. The cities in northeast air corridor will find it harder to schedule and add fights, because of a high number of flights operating there.

[Raintree21]

The Observer is reporting on a new ground radar system that the airport has in place now. This system costs $14.5 million and alerts air traffic controllers of potential collisions of aircraft while they are on the ground. The old system was severely hampered by weather, which would give false alarms whenever it rained or snowed. This new system should make a huge difference in the safety of all.

[atlrvr]

Looks like Charlotte will likely get another international route.

USAirways has applied to government approval to start a Charlotte-Bogota, Columbia flight.

Currently, Bogota is only connected by US carriers, from Miami, Atlanta, NY (Newark), and Houston

The announcement was in the CBJ.......it didn't mention specific aircraft, but I'm assuming it will be on a 757 or A321.

[moving uptown]

Looks like Charlotte will likely get another international route.

USAirways has applied to government approval to start a Charlotte-Bogota, Columbia flight.

Currently, Bogota is only connected by US carriers, from Miami, Atlanta, NY (Newark), and Houston

The announcement was in the CBJ.......it didn't mention specific aircraft, but I'm assuming it will be on a 757 or A321.

wow that is from out in left field. I'm excited to get another route but I dont think this one will be a tourist heavy route. . .

[Raintree21]

I don't think it will be an every day route, maybe twice a week. We do actually have a lot of Colombians around the state so I think it would be a fairly popular route.

[HopHead]

wow that is from out in left field. I'm excited to get another route but I dont think this one will be a tourist heavy route. . .

I was pleasantly surprised by it too. It may not be a heavy tourist route but the demand must be there... probably more business? I hope this does open the door to Charlotte getting more South American routes. I'd love to see a direct to Brazil or even Chile...

[uptownliving]

This is an interesting development. Just last week Scott Kirby announced on their earnings call they planned to do some South American routes out of Charlotte and then CEO Doug Parker jumped in and said "eventually...sometime in the future" to make it clear that the SA routes would not begin soon. Having this announcement today of their application on the CLT-BOG market might be in response to the Philly airport giving away a couple of international gates to Delta...effectively forcing US Airways to drop some European destinations next summer from Philly. They said on the call that if Philly did that they would accelerate their international expansion out of CLT. So this Bogota flight is probably just the begining.

[moving uptown]

i was doing some research on this bogota flight and its not a done deal - usair is competing with jetblue and spirit air for route authority to bogota. essentially, the proposal from usai from charlotte has to beat one of the other proposals to get the gig. just an fyi

[Appetite for Construction]

With all the Central American service out of CLT, it surprised me to see that this will be the first city served by US in South America (although Aruba is awful close).

[RiverwoodCLT]

From Charlotte Business Jounral today.

Charlotte/Douglas International Airport plans to add a 25-gate international terminal due to US Air lost a bid for more international gates at Philadelphia.

[Bled_man]

From Charlotte Business Jounral today.

Charlotte/Douglas International Airport plans to add a 25-gate international terminal due to US Air lost a bid for more international gates at Philadelphia.

Wow! That is some big news there. This will more than double there international capacity, won't it?

[HopHead]

From Charlotte Business Jounral today.

Charlotte/Douglas International Airport plans to add a 25-gate international terminal due to US Air lost a bid for more international gates at Philadelphia.

This is awesome news! Do you have a link? It's funny though, I got in last night and walked by the International gates and though how nice it would be to extend the current terminal for international flights Any idea where they would put it?

I'll go ahead and state the obvious... Look for a BIG increase in international flights out of Charlotte now. Maybe we can start getting all those European routes we've been craving

Edited November 2, 2007 by dbull75

[uptownliving]

The plan is the tear down the Hourly Parking decks adjacent to the Terminal, rebuild them and put in the Rental Cars on the first level. Then they would tear down the current Rental Car facilites on Rental Car Rd and build the new international terminal on that land. The International terminal would be connected to the main terminal by moving sidewalks. Once the new international terminal is built that would open up Concourse D to further domestic flight expansion.

This has been posted many times...but this is what it could ultimately look like.

[atlrvr]

Was it posted here, or possibly I read it in some report, but Jerry Orr is taking the intial steps towards getting an automated tram to connect the terminal to the parking decks. I was under the impression they had scrapped the idea, but I know I saw an update on this recently that indicated they were moving forward.

Anyway, perhaps the CBJ names likely destinations, but besides current destination and Bogota, what else would be added?

Paris is pretty obvious. Where else? Vienna? I think some other destinations were thrown around. I think Berlin once their new airport is completed would be a good choise. Also maybe Madrid? Zurich? Milan?

I'm still hoping for some additional South American destination likes Buenos, Santiago, Rio, Sao, Caracas, and Lima.

Also, I'm curious if they will design the new international terminal to accomodate the A380? Now that the ICAO has ruled the A380 can operate on normal width runways and tarmacs, it could possibly become a more common plane than was once predicted, though I still dout Charlotte would ever see the demand.

[Bled_man]

I would love to see a direct flight to Lima. That is where my wife is from and it would make it much easier to not have to go through Miami or Atlanta.