Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[Phillydog]

Question for you airport/airline wizards out there -- 

There are only 5 US states with more than one metro that has international passenger service to Europe?  California (3), Florida (3), Texas (3), North Carolina (2), and Pennsylvania (2).  Is this correct?  If so, not too shabby North Carolina.

[CLT2014]

18 minutes ago, Phillydog said:

Question for you airport/airline wizards out there -- 

There are only 5 US states with more than one metro that has international passenger service to Europe?  California (3), Florida (3), Texas (3), North Carolina (2), and Pennsylvania (2).  Is this correct?  If so, not too shabby North Carolina.

This sounds accurate. Most states are "all in" on one metro area being populated and then there is a cliff to any other metro in the state (i.e. Seattle & WA, Chicago & IL, Atlanta & GA, Denver & CO, Minneapolis/St. Paul & MN, et...). Other states, just have such small boundaries that the metro is most of the state (i.e. Boston = MA), et...

NC is probably most like Tennessee and Missouri having mid-sized metros, but no big 3 million+ person metro that dominates. Our population is very sprawling / spread out, versus concentrated. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by CLT2014

[LKN704]

14 hours ago, Phillydog said:

Question for you airport/airline wizards out there -- 

There are only 5 US states with more than one metro that has international passenger service to Europe?  California (3), Florida (3), Texas (3), North Carolina (2), and Pennsylvania (2).  Is this correct?  If so, not too shabby North Carolina.

Florida actually has 5 metro areas with nonstop service to Europe:

1. Orlando
2. Miami/South Florida
3. Tampa
4. Ft Myers/SW Florida (Eurowings Discover to Frankfurt)
5. Melbourne/Titusville (TUI Airways to the UK)

Eurowings Discover is a low-cost subsidiary of the Lufthansa Group. 

Years ago, Daytona Beach also had seasonal, nonstop service to Germany. 

Alaska also has 2 metro areas with service to Europe:

1. Fairbanks (Condor to Frankfurt)
2. Anchorage (Eurowings Discover to Frankfurt, Condor to Frankfurt)

I'm actually surprised that Condor hasn't started service to Raleigh. They serve a number of similar, peer cities (Portland, Baltimore, etc.) seasonally with nonstop service to Frankfurt, and they codeshare with Lufthansa on European flights to enable onward connections. They used to be owned by Lufthansa (for several years they had a livery similar to them) and are now the second largest airline in Germany.  

Very respectable carrier IMO (not some sketchy low cost airline) and they offer a full-service product (in-flight entertainment, Business Class, free meals, etc.) on their long-flights. 

[deleted account]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/11/worlds-busiest-airport-rankings-dominated-by-us-cities-in-pandemic-travel-shift.html

[LKN704]

Still down from 2019 traffic levels (50 million vs 43 million) but 6th place isn't bad. The top ten are:

1. Atlanta
2. Dallas
3. Denver
4. O'Hare
5. Los Angeles
6. Charlotte
7. Orlando
8. Guangzhou
9. Chengdu
10. Las Vegas

As the article alluded to, the rankings are likely temporary and airports in the US only ranked higher than their international counterparts (especially China and Western Europe) due to the lack of internal travel restrictions in the US.

HKG, which for many years was my home away from home and is my favorite airport to fly through, isn't even ranked amongst the top 35 busiest airports. Heartbreaking. 

[CltFlyer]

41 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

Still down from 2019 traffic levels (50 million vs 43 million) but 6th place isn't bad. The top ten are:

1. Atlanta
2. Dallas
3. Denver
4. O'Hare
5. Los Angeles
6. Charlotte
7. Orlando
8. Guangzhou
9. Chengdu
10. Las Vegas

As the article alluded to, the rankings are likely temporary and airports in the US only ranked higher than their international counterparts (especially China and Western Europe) due to the lack of internal travel restrictions in the US.

HKG, which for many years was my home away from home and is my favorite airport to fly through, isn't even ranked amongst the top 35 busiest airports. Heartbreaking. 

Hong Kong is a very sad situation right now.  Pre-covid, the Chinese influence was already increasing in the area and China has used Covid to further do so.  Cathay Pacific is in shambles.

Honestly, I imagine they struggled to cracked the top 100, and may not have done so.

As of December 2021.  The only reported 1,350,000 travelers in the past 12 months.  A stark contrast from 2019 where they saw 71,415,245.

https://www.hongkongairport.com/iwov-resources/file/the-airport/hkia-at-a-glance/facts-figures/Dec2021e.pdf

For anyone interested.  Here are their monthly passenger counts.

https://www.hongkongairport.com/en/the-airport/hkia-at-a-glance/fact-figures.page

 

Despite it being an obvious anomaly, it's very cool to see CLT this high on the list.  

[CLT>]

4 hours ago, LKN704 said:

Still down from 2019 traffic levels (50 million vs 43 million) but 6th place isn't bad. The top ten are:

1. Atlanta
2. Dallas
3. Denver
4. O'Hare
5. Los Angeles
6. Charlotte
7. Orlando
8. Guangzhou
9. Chengdu
10. Las Vegas

As the article alluded to, the rankings are likely temporary and airports in the US only ranked higher than their international counterparts (especially China and Western Europe) due to the lack of internal travel restrictions in the US.

HKG, which for many years was my home away from home and is my favorite airport to fly through, isn't even ranked amongst the top 35 busiest airports. Heartbreaking. 

#5 in terms of Aircraft Movements (which has always been our higher ranking)

https://aci.aero/2022/04/11/the-top-10-busiest-airports-in-the-world-revealed/

[LKN704]

https://cltairport.mediaroom.com/ConcourseE_Expansion_Opens?fbclid=IwAR0oD28l0DuFCDUA2RMEWt8XXZGNJB8SeLMyrHOnZNcJ63xwBNKfy4_DesQ

Meh. I just wish the ceilings were higher. It still looks very claustrophobic. 

The hanging public artwork looks like vertical viruses...perfect for the pandemic!

[CLT2014]

They made the ceiling height to set expectations you are about to be shoved into a CRJ-900 where your head hits the ceiling and your bag can't fit onboard for your flight to the many miserable and dying cities served out of Concourse E. 

In all seriousness, the walkway doesn't look very wide. During boarding, passengers will line up / wait in the rather narrow walk way area and block other folks trying to get to other gates. The only thing that will help is none of the planes at these gates seat more than 80 people so you should get a little bit less crowding than an A320 or 737 with this little walking space.

Edited April 13, 2022 by CLT2014

[LKN704]

6 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

They made the ceiling height to set expectations you are about to be shoved into a CRJ-900 where your head hits the ceiling and your bag can't fit onboard for your flight to the many miserable and dying cities like Allentown, Flint, Michigan, Huntington, WV and Jackson, MS served out of Concourse E. 

In all seriousness, the walkway doesn't look very wide. During boarding, passengers will line up / wait in the rather narrow walk way area and block other folks trying to get to other gates. The only thing that will help is none of the planes at these gates seat more than 80 people so you should get a little bit less crowding than an A320 or 737 with this little walking space.

Now, now...there are a couple of "sexier" places that are served out of the concourse...North Eleuthera comes to mind.

I think the concourse walkway is wider and the wall on the right-hand side is some sort of temporary construction wall. 

[deleted account]

I actually think this looks good (though the art does look like viruses). I drove through the airport Friday night and the lights on new A and the lobby expansion looked very nice. 

[Temeteron]

13 minutes ago, JBS said:

I actually think this looks good (though the art does look like viruses). I drove through the airport Friday night and the lights on new A and the lobby expansion looked very nice. 

Where exactly is E expansion? I tried to find a map online and couldn’t find it

[deleted account]

3 hours ago, Temeteron said:

Where exactly is E expansion? I tried to find a map online and couldn’t find it

Hopefully this excerpt from the airport website answers your question (the picture should help you envision the location if you are familiar with the airport):

Description:

This expansion will create 34,000 square feet of hold room, concessions space and support space on the north end of Concourse E. Currently, passengers use hold room space of other Concourse E gates and walk under temporary canopies to access aircraft hardstand parking. An additional 6,000 square feet of open ramp space will be enclosed along the east wing of Concourse E at Gate E16 to accommodate passengers of hardstand aircraft.

This project will shield passengers from the elements, decongest hold rooms and heighten security and safety with boarding bridge-equipped gates. This expansion also will enable larger regional aircraft to use the concourse due to the rising elevation on the north end and up-gauging of regional aircraft.

Edited April 13, 2022 by JBS

[LKN704]

AA has scheduled a one-off 777 flight between CLT and RDU, probably to do with familiarization training for the resumption of the Raleigh/London flight.

Probably the only intrastate widebody service in NC history. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by LKN704

[Vitamin_N]

On 4/17/2022 at 11:47 AM, LKN704 said:

AA has scheduled a one-off 777 flight between CLT and RDU, probably to do with familiarization training for the resumption of the Raleigh/London flight.

Probably the only intrastate widebody service in NC history. 

I tweeted this and it ended up being my most-liked tweet ever. Which is a low bar, but still... One acquaintance of mine even booked a first class ticket with his AA miles. Aviation enthusiasts are an enthusiastic bunch! (Tried to give you some credit in the original tweet btw.)

https://twitter.com/PFDigest/status/1516113737819774982?t=9fSIpqmpzJZgzb4hAOhKlw&s=19

[jtmonk]

9 hours ago, Vitamin_N said:

I tweeted this and it ended up being my most-liked tweet ever. Which is a low bar, but still... One acquaintance of mine even booked a first class ticket with his AA miles. Aviation enthusiasts are an enthusiastic bunch! (Tried to give you some credit in the original tweet btw.)

https://twitter.com/PFDigest/status/1516113737819774982?t=9fSIpqmpzJZgzb4hAOhKlw&s=19

I'm not going to lie, I was very close to booking a flight but I'll already be out of town that week  .  

[LKN704]

Just in:

Frankfurt is being suspended this summer to compensate for the lack of pilots and widebody aircraft, both within the AA fleet and their JV partners. AA is adding another flight to MIA-LHR to compensate for the loss of a BA service due to their fleet shortage, and I am guessing that's where the 777 assigned to CLT-FRA is going. 

Last flight is 1 June. Service resumes (as of now) 7 September, but that all depends I guess on what fleet and staffing capabilities look like then. 

I'm guessing CLT-FRA was the weakest 777 route in the system. 

[kermit]

3 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I'm guessing CLT-FRA was the weakest 777 route in the system. 

Aww man.
I am also guessing CLT-Munich is handing the bulk of the high-yield business traffic (along with Delta ATL-Stuttgart).

[LKN704]

27 minutes ago, kermit said:

Aww man.
I am also guessing CLT-Munich is handing the bulk of the high-yield business traffic (along with Delta ATL-Stuttgart).

Perhaps.

At the same time, the devil's advocate in me thinks that the Frankfurt flight likely performs better than the Munich flight, but AA is not willing to risk the loss of corporate contracts on the Munich flight, which are likely crucial to the flight's survival, especially as they are a new entrant into the market and there is a competitor who has had consistent service for almost 20 years on the route now. 

There is no competitor to AA's CLT-Frankfurt flight (and it's far too late in the season for Lufthansa to introduce their own flight to Frankfurt...I doubt they would want to anyways), corporate contracts are likely far less important, and US/AA has been on the route now consistently going back to the 1990s, so it can likely afford to anger a few corporate clients for a few months, especially given that long-haul business travel is still down. 

Delta has actually discontinued their Atlanta-Stuttgart service. It's supposed to resume this Fall IIRC. 

[tarhoosier]

Found while looking for something else:

Grayland INTERGLACTIC Airport

https://airportguide.com/airport/info/43IG

For those seeking to brand an aspirational airport name here is the standard to surpass.

[LKN704]

Not CLT related, but RDU related: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article260601877.html

Alaska Airlines apparently successfully lobbied the FAA and NC reps to add an additional 639 feet to their planned 10,000 foot runway, to allow their 739ERs to have better performance when flying to Seattle. Not really necessary (more so a safety measure) but the 739ER is a known runway hog and has poor take-off performance. I flew one last month on IAD-BOS (only 400 miles or so) and the takeoff roll was a good minute or so, and we used almost every foot of runway to take-off. 

In short, RDU will have a longer runway that CLT.

Edited April 21, 2022 by LKN704

[Miesian Corners]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:33 PM, LKN704 said:

Perhaps.

At the same time, the devil's advocate in me thinks that the Frankfurt flight likely performs better than the Munich flight, but AA is not willing to risk the loss of corporate contracts on the Munich flight, which are likely crucial to the flight's survival, especially as they are a new entrant into the market and there is a competitor who has had consistent service for almost 20 years on the route now. 

There is no competitor to AA's CLT-Frankfurt flight (and it's far too late in the season for Lufthansa to introduce their own flight to Frankfurt...I doubt they would want to anyways), corporate contracts are likely far less important, and US/AA has been on the route now consistently going back to the 1990s, so it can likely afford to anger a few corporate clients for a few months, especially given that long-haul business travel is still down. 

Delta has actually discontinued their Atlanta-Stuttgart service. It's supposed to resume this Fall IIRC. 

The airline told crews that the reason the service was suspended was a combination of too few widebodies and  slot issues at LHR. Don't use the slot, lose it. FRA isn't slot-controlled, so there's no worry about losing the route. The 777-200 in question will now fly MIA-LHR. CLT-FRA is scheduled to resume in the fall.

[rancenc]

40 years of hub status at Charlotte-Douglas.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/04/25/forecast-calls-for-more-expansion-at-clt.html

[xapostrophe]

4 hours ago, rancenc said:

40 years of hub status at Charlotte-Douglas.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/04/25/forecast-calls-for-more-expansion-at-clt.html

feel like copying that article and messaging it to me?  its behind a paywall

[SentioVenia]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:55 PM, tarhoosier said:

Found while looking for something else:

Grayland INTERGLACTIC Airport

https://airportguide.com/airport/info/43IG

For those seeking to brand an aspirational airport name here is the standard to surpass.

We can aim a little higher: Charlotte/Douglas Multiverse Airport