Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[BarrenLucidity]

With the closure of AAs crew base at SFO I wonder if we will see Alaska at CLT in the future for West coast flying. If AA concentrates on LAX/SAN and concedes SFO/PDX/SEA (domestic) to its OneWorld partner I think we just might. 

Hell, with ASAs 737 Max buy we may just get direct flights to ANC. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by BarrenLucidity

[xapostrophe]

14 minutes ago, BarrenLucidity said:

With the closure of AAs crew base at SFO I wonder if we will see Alaska at CLT in the future for West coast flying. If AA concentrates on LAX/SAN and concedes SFO/PDX/SEA (domestic) to its OneWorld partner I think we just might. 

Hell, with ASAs 737 Max buy we may just get direct flights to ANC. 

It's a closure of a satellite flight attendant base.  Nothing more.  There has not been a pilot base in ages.  And we still have a pretty good sized maintenance facility.   I wouldn't get your hopes up for Alaska to show up.   Or excited to ride on a 737 on a transcontinental flight.   

[LKN704]

Alaska isn't coming to Charlotte. 

I know a few people who work at Alaska HQ in Seattle, and while they all say the company has looked at starting Charlotte service in the past, unfortunately the demand from CLT to SEA/LAX/SFO/PDX is too low to warrant an additional carrier. The Q1 2022 origin/destination passenger count between CLT and SEA is only 99 per day. AA's two daily flights serve the market with more than enough capacity. Alaska's 737 MAX-8 purchase will likely result in Anchorage to Dulles and NYC nonstops, but not to Charlotte. 

FWIW, their 737s are 100% nicer than AA's on the inside, with more cushioned seats in Economy and an extra inch of leg room. That combined with the friendly attitude of their employees, make Alaska a very pleasant airline to fly. 

Keep in mind that just because AA and Alaska are Oneworld partners with an extensive codeshare and frequent flyer partnership, they are still competitors. If AA colluded with Alaska to concede a bunch of West Coast flying to them, you better believe that the DOJ would come knocking on Fort Worth's door. Even today, they are limited to what they can/can not do. The DOJ ruled that Alaska cannot place their code on AA flights from Alaska hubs to AA hubs, while AA isn't allowed to place their code on Alaska flights from Alaska hubs to AA hubs. 

As a result, Alaska's flight from Dulles to San Francisco has an AA code and is also marketed by AA. However, Alaska's flight from Washington National to San Francisco lacks any sort of AA marketing, because National is an AA hub. It's also why the only AA flight out of Charlotte that has an Alaska code is AA's CLT-SAN service. 

So even if Alaska wanted to start say Seattle to Charlotte, AA wouldn't be allowed to codeshare with Alaska on the route. 

The closure of AA's flight attendant is irrelevant in terms of AA's network or CLT. Right now, SFO only has 26 AA daily departures on mainline equipment...that's less daily departures than Delta has at CLT. There's simply no need for hundreds of flight attendants to be based there. Keep in mind that bases don't just have flight attendants, but management/support staff and AA has to rent out physical office space at SFO to support the base. Their base there was a relic of the days when they had the SJC focus city (with flights to Tokyo, Taipei, and Paris), and point-to-point flying from SFO to BOS/Hawaii/Southern California. It's painful for the crews that are based there, but it's the logical thing to do as a company. It's my understanding that the SFO base is extremely senior, and I wouldn't be surprised to see most take a retirement package. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by LKN704

[tozmervo]

On 9/13/2022 at 5:20 PM, KJHburg said:

from Twitter

Erik Spanberg
@CBJspanberg

NEW: Groundbreaking for $30M, 105,000-square-foot aviation museum (replacing the previous one that closed  in 2019) will be September 27. $27M has been raised/committed, including $10M from state government, $3M from the county, and $5M from city/airport. Opening: late 2023.

So are they reopening on top of their old location? For some reason I thought they were moving.

[KJHburg]

4 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

So are they reopening on top of their old location? For some reason I thought they were moving.

they are moving to the north end of extreme right runaway not sure what the official name of it is but it has moved from its original location. 

[TCLT]

27 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

So are they reopening on top of their old location? For some reason I thought they were moving.

Used to be here. Will reopen here.

[tozmervo]

Just now, TCLT said:

Used to be here. Will reopen here.

Got it, thanks. For some reason I thought it was always at the north end near 18 L

[kermit]

Not suggesting this actually means anything but coincidentally one of my BoA credit card "deals" is for 15% off at Alaska Airlines. These offers have generally been targeted by zip code of card holder so I was surprised to see this.

Edited September 17, 2022 by kermit

[TCLT]

Not suggesting this actually means anything but coincidentally one of my BoA credit card "deals" is for 15% off at Alaska Airlines. These offers have generally be targeted by zip code of card holder so I was surprised to see this.

Counterpoints: Bank of America issues the Alaska Airlines credit card so it might just be a crossover promo. Also you can book an Alaska itinerary to/from CLT since they have codeshares with AA.

[videtur quam contuor]

LaGuardia Concourse C, Delta gates. If I walk several steps more it reveals itself to be Essex Burger. Advertising works, sometimes in ways not intended or expected.

 

[turbocraig]

Not.  Amused. 

[CltFlyer]

Speaking of LaGuardia.  Spirit will be starting CLT-LGA once daily on November 1st.  Now bookable on the Spirit website!  

Another great ULCC add and follows up Spirit's add of Miami.   This will bring them up to 7 daily flights in November.

 

[LKN704]

CLT has done a pretty good job as of late attempting to incorporate more local places into the terminal expansion...Rhino Market, NoDa Brewing both come to mind. It would be great if they could partner with more restaurants (rather than breweries), however. I always thought Cabo Fish Taco, Luna's Living Kitchen, and Honey Tupelo would be good fits imo. Obviously there's a lot of work on the restaurant's part to make such partnerships happen (often by working with a food-service company like HMS Host), but still. 

Unrelated, but AA has officially announced their new international premium products. Flagship First will be discontinued starting in 2024 (along with the A321T fleet) in favor of an enhanced Business seat with doors. The configuration will debut on new 787-9 and A321XLR deliveries. It's unclear if/when other aircraft will be reconfigured with the new seats. Here are some shots of the A321XLR cabin:

New 787 cabin:

It looks like Economy will be getting new seats (or at least a new seat cover design). The whole look of the cabin and the color scheme actually looks quite nice and airy...quite a difference from the drab dark navy and gray accents in the current AA cabin. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by LKN704

[Hushpuppy321]

Orlando (MCO) International is really stepping up its game with the new Terminal coming online.

[videtur quam contuor]

This post is for me, more than anyone. I go to NYC 2-3 times a year and AA is my carrier, miles related and torpor mostly. I tried Delta this time and made a comparison since the "new" LaGuardia is nearly complete. First class ticket in all instances. "A"concourse is about as far as end of other AA concourses at CLT but way fewer passengers waiting to board the flights. Delta uses smaller regional equipment for this run and our flights were maybe half filled. No crowd at boarding gate, plane loads quickly and ready to depart jetway on time. No entertainment screens on seatbacks but that is not an issue for me. Plane has wi-fi. Seat was as comfortable, I guess, no issue there. Less of a walk from taxi stand to gate both in and out on my trips this year for the Delta connection, a major advantage. Checked bag was at carousel before I arrived there at LGA and CLT for Delta. At LGA Delta first class has dedicated bag drop and booking desk (Priority) for fast service.  Does AA have this?

AA has full size equipment, full plane, crowd at gate, longer walk to/from gate to taxi stand for my flights. Only noticeable advantage is for AA the attendant has manifest and calls me by name for drink and snack service. Delta attendant does not. Price was 125$ less, RT, on Delta. I will consider Delta strongly depending on schedule and price. Service and other issues are better. Just my opinion.

[LKN704]

58 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

This post is for me, more than anyone. I go to NYC 2-3 times a year and AA is my carrier, miles related and torpor mostly. I tried Delta this time and made a comparison since the "new" LaGuardia is nearly complete. First class ticket in all instances. "A"concourse is about as far as end of other AA concourses at CLT but way fewer passengers waiting to board the flights. Delta uses smaller regional equipment for this run and our flights were maybe half filled. No crowd at boarding gate, plane loads quickly and ready to depart jetway on time. No entertainment screens on seatbacks but that is not an issue for me. Plane has wi-fi. Seat was as comfortable, I guess, no issue there. Less of a walk from taxi stand to gate both in and out on my trips this year for the Delta connection, a major advantage. Checked bag was at carousel before I arrived there at LGA and CLT for Delta. At LGA Delta first class has dedicated bag drop and booking desk (Priority) for fast service.  Does AA have this?

AA has full size equipment, full plane, crowd at gate, longer walk to/from gate to taxi stand for my flights. Only noticeable advantage is for AA the attendant has manifest and calls me by name for drink and snack service. Delta attendant does not. Price was 125$ less, RT, on Delta. I will consider Delta strongly depending on schedule and price. Service and other issues are better. Just my opinion.

Obviously YMMV but I'm rarely greeted by name in F on AA...even as someone with status. It isn't a dealbreaker for me as I actually would prefer if FAs did not greet me by name...especially in DC where people are so obsessed with finding out who's who and what people do. I was on a flight once from DCA to DFW where the person next to me was literally looking up a fellow passenger on LinkedIn after the FA went around taking drink orders using the manifest. No thanks...I'd prefer to stay anonymous. 

I'm under the impression that Delta (and United) treat their elites better than AA does, but again, YMMV. 

I almost never fly Delta. I flew Delta on two trips last year...PHX-DTW-DCA and LAX-MSP-DCA, simply because they had good last minute award redemptions. Those flights were the first trips I took with them since 2018. On the LAX-MSP segment, the lead FA came up to me mid-flight with his tablet, discretely knelt down next to me, and  greeted me by name and thanked me for my business. I was so confused...I'm a nobody to them. I have an old Delta Amex that for some reason I keep open, but that's the extent of my business with them. I asked why he approached me and told him I was an AA Elite member (I even happened to be writing with an AA pen onboard) and I lived in DC so I didn't fly Delta all to frequently. He wasn't sure and walked away. Around thirty minutes later, he came back with his tablet, and said he was going to give me some miles to try to sway my business towards them. He said he was going to write up my TV screen as inoperable (even though it worked fine) as a way for me to get the miles. After we landed, he thanked me again by name, and I got the miles into my account the next day. 

Their customer service department is pretty good, too...very responsive and accommodating. In 2018, I flew RDU-SEA on Delta. At the time, Delta was serving complimentary meals on that route in Economy. I pre-ordered a Vegan meal, but for some reason catering forgot to load in onboard. The crew on board were super apologetic, and put together a makeshift vegan meal from leftovers in First class with rolls and jelly, a banana, and a fruit cup, and they gave me a couple mini bottles of wine as an apology. It more than made up for the lack of the meal, but the crew insisted I write in and complain anyways. Two days later, I got 15,000 miles in my account for the ordeal...more than worth it if you ask me. I honestly can't imagine AA would have done the same in that scenario. 

Back to your post, AA should have a Priority bag drop and check-in desk in most airports. At CLT it is located by the D Checkpoint. I'm not sure where it is located in the new LGA but I would be shocked if they didn't have that type of facility there. 

FWIW, AA has always been pretty bad at baggage delivery, especially at its hubs, where transfer bags likely take priority over terminating bags. I believe Delta (like Alaska) has some sort of baggage guarantee where if your bag doesn't arrive at the carousel in X minutes, they reward you with Y amount of miles. 

[a2theb]

16 hours ago, LKN704 said:

Obviously YMMV but I'm rarely greeted by name in F on AA...even as someone with status. It isn't a dealbreaker for me as I actually would prefer if FAs did not greet me by name...especially in DC where people are so obsessed with finding out who's who and what people do. I was on a flight once from DCA to DFW where the person next to me was literally looking up a fellow passenger on LinkedIn after the FA went around taking drink orders using the manifest. No thanks...I'd prefer to stay anonymous. 

 

There was an AA thread on flyertalk the other day that was complaining about this. (which is not surprising for FT). I feel the same way as you, would prefer to remain anonymous and it typically feels forced anyways.

 

[CltFlyer]

Work on the new canopy will begin on Tuesday 9/27.  The upper level roadway will be shut down on 9/27 and re-open on 10/12.  The canopy project itself will take 2 years to complete.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article266144396.html

 

In other news.  Another local restaurant chain will be opening a location in the airport.   Local BBQ chain "Midwood Smokehouse" has acquired space for an airport location.  No specifics yet, but the most likely space based off of what is available appears to be in Concourse A across from Rhino Market and Deli.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/midwood-smokehouse-set-land-charlotte-douglas-international-airport/IZ5WO3TR6FFQFO3TZN2TKZXG3M/

 

[Temeteron]

So I’m kind of confused. Will this canopy take another 2 years to finish?

[49er]

My assumption was that they'll finish half the canopy now and the other half when the rest of the terminal lobby expansion is complete in another year or two. 

[JRCLT]

My assumption was that they'll finish half the canopy now and the other half when the rest of the terminal lobby expansion is complete in another year or two. 

Yep! The canopy itself is supported by columns in the new lobby, so yeah the canopy can’t be finished until the lobby structure is done.

[eastsider]

There has been a change in plans on the North Taxiway project that will result in the closing of the Airport Overlook on October 3rd. A temporary overlook will open on October 17 at the corner of Old Dowd and Airport Overlook Dr and will remain in place until the new permanent overlook is opened.

https://cltairport.mediaroom.com/Old_Dowd_Road_Closure#assets_all

[csweet]

Pretty awesome to see what CLT is kicking off right now, things that I have seen begin construction in the past month (let me know what I left off!) -

 

• Canopy for terminal
• Midwood Smokehouse in Terminal B
• Aviation Museum
• North End Wrap Around Taxiway
• De Icing Pad / South runway connector is moving along nicely
• Foundation for Terminal A Phase II
• Taxiway widening for Terminal D flow

[xapostrophe]

1 hour ago, csweet said:

Pretty awesome to see what CLT is kicking off right now, things that I have seen begin construction in the past month (let me know what I left off!) -

 

• Canopy for terminal
• Midwood Smokehouse in Terminal B
• Aviation Museum
• North End Wrap Around Taxiway
• De Icing Pad / South runway connector is moving along nicely
• Foundation for Terminal A Phase II
• Taxiway widening for Terminal D flow

It's been very active.   Like like they were expediting the parallel taxiway by the south connectors.  They were hard at it after midnight last week.

[kermit]

If anyone actually wanted to make a strong case for rail transit to the airport this would be the time…

(plus a bonus example of why buses are inadequate transit options when they have to share the road)

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by kermit