Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[kickazzz2000]

Looks like CLT's on time factor is up at this time from last year. (83% of flights on time). This placed CLT 9th among the major airports in the USA.

http://www.charlotte.com/109/story/702866.html

[monsoon]

^Maybe that is because the airline industry has lost 41 million passengers over this time last year. There was a report on MSNBC that said people were getting so disgusted by the flying experience, most by new airline policies, and bad airport management, they were simply deciding to go with other alternatives.

On a related note, USA has decided to cancel plans to put personal entertainment systems on its planes. They were so unhappy that people were not buying their $5 headsets their future planes will come without these kind of systems.

In addition yesterday Northwest announced it was getting rid of 2500 employees. This is becoming a huge number in total for the entire airline industry and it does make one wonder how much blood letting there is to come.

[Raintree21]

On a related note, USA has decided to cancel plans to put personal entertainment systems on its planes. They were so unhappy that people were not buying their $5 headsets their future planes will come without these kind of systems.

It was a cost issue. The entertaiment systems weigh about 500 pounds each and require that much extra fuel to lug them around. People either weren't buying the headsets or were bringing their own and it wasn't cost effective to continue the service. USAirways expects to save $10 million in fuel costs alone just by cutting out the movies. They are however looking at a lighter system for future use.

[monsoon]

... They are however looking at a lighter system for future use.

It's plans for the lighter system they have decided to cancel.

[Raintree21]

It's plans for the lighter system they have decided to cancel.

Plans to do a systemwide upgrade on the entertainment systems to either fiber optic or wifi have been put on hold. However, they are still planning on testing a new fiber optic system in October but are only planning on trying it on one plane.

[monsoon]

Charlotte has really been on a roll so far in the past couple of months with new destinations:

Key West

Daytona

Austin

San Antonio

Gulfport/Biloxi

Fort Walton

Panama City

.....

The Panama City route is now going to be canceled. I think this is the start of more to come.

[uptownliving]

Yeah I agree the Panama City route was an all RJ route...obviously not cost effective. I suspect that more all RJ routes will be cut in the coming months.

[Shakman]

I would not be surprised to see mainline routes to be cut and /or reduced as regonial service.

[HopHead]

As long as they keep the Austin and San Antonio routes, that's fine with me... I think out of all the US Airways hubs, Charlotte will probably see the least amount of cutbacks. Vegas from what I heard has been the most affected. We definitely won't see any more new routes announced any time soon... Unless of course they start charging you for bathroom visits onboard

Edited July 12, 2008 by dbull75

[Shakman]

As long as they keep the Austin and San Antonio routes, that's fine with me... I think out of all the US Airways hubs, Charlotte will probably see the least amount of cutbacks. Vegas from what I heard has been the most affected. We definitely won't see any more new routes announced any time soon... Unless of course they start charging you for bathroom visits onboard

Southwest has a humorous commercial on the same lines. There was a passenger onboard an airplane which was filled with insert 25 cents for service. Poor fellow had to insert quarters to use the overhead bins, drop his seat back, use the tray in front of him and so on. I fell off of my hotel bed when I saw that commercial.

Las vegas would make sense since USA's base of operation is nearby at Skyharbor. It would not suprise me the least if some PHL Pond flights get moved to Douglas. I say this due to the ?ongoing? feud between USA and the authority which oversee PHL's operations. It is to my understandfing that a vast majority of the USA's Pond flights are seasonal?

[caterpillar2]

The Panama City route is now going to be canceled. I think this is the start of more to come.

I was excited that there was a non-stop flight from Panama City to Charlotte until I found out that a ticket was over $400. Now I could care less. I will do like everyone else in Panama City, drive to Ft. Walton.

[Miesian Corners]

I did a quick google search but came up empty. Does anyone know of a website or have a graphic that shows historic airline ticket prices? How do prices today compare to prices in the past? Are they pretty similar (inflation adjusted or not) or are we entering new territory?

No graphic to speak of, but I do know of an aviation analyst whose research tells something that I've always known: air travel has not kept up with inflation. Analyst Terry Trippler compared schedules and airfares today with those from 25 years ago for 27 different cities. When 1982 prices are adjusted for inflation, he found that today's prices are actually lower.

In 1982 there were three roundtrip flights from Boston (BOS) to Los Angeles (LAX), with the lowest fare costing $298. Adjusted for inflation, that ticket should cost $635 today, but Trippler found that, not only are there nine roundtrip flights instead of three, the lowest fare was just $199. Similarly, between New York (LGA, JFK, and EWR) and Miami (MIA) there were 21 flights in 1982, with the lowest fare costing $188. Adjusted for inflation, that ticket should have cost $400 in 2007, but Trippler found that the lowest fare was actually $158 and there are now 25 nonstop flights.

From my own experience, I flew on Eastern Air Lines from CLT to Washington National (DCA) in 1975 for $205 (my mom still has the ticket jacket and receipt in her scrap book). I can fly the same route today for $199.

Now add what Mr Trippler's study didn't look at, namely fuel prices, health care costs and payroll for employees, infrastructure and equipment--then think of what an airline ticket should actually cost. Mind boggling.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Miesian Corners

[JayGee]

Seems pretty obvious I guess, if ticket prices had kept up with inflation, the airlines would not be struggling as much as they are. They have shed most of their legacy costs; pensions, wage levels, etc., so it seems like the rest would be operating expense affected by inflation.

Leisure travelers complain about ticket prices being too high, but business travelers have been subsidizing low leisure fares (the ones that are booked months in advance typically) for years by paying 2 and 3 times the lowest advance fare (sometimes more) to travel on shorter notice. But now because of that pressure to keep ticket prices low, I can pay $600 to $1000 for a ticket for a business trip and not get any better service than the guy sitting next to me who paid $149. And I still have to fork over 2 bucks for a Diet Coke on USA.

[Miesian Corners]

And I still have to fork over 2 bucks for a Diet Coke on USA.

An open note to all that travel on my sad excuse for an employer (I've been practicing how to say "I'm sorry" in a multitude of languages): buy a 20oz beverage for $2 from the airport gift shops. Not only do they have resealable caps, you won't be encouraging this ridiculous idea from my employer's inept management and you'll get 8 more ounces of diet coke. And remember, if you say you don't feel well, flight crews are required to give you a drink free of charge. Does anybody "feel well" crammed into a tiny seat with no leg room? I didn't think so. So see, no worries about being dishonest.

[monsoon]

....

From my own experience, I flew on Eastern Air Lines from CLT to Washington National (DCA) in 1975 for $205 (my mom still has the ticket jacket and receipt in her scrap book). I can fly the same route today for $199....

But in those days, seat pitches were better and you almost never had to sit by someone because they didn't fill the planes to capacity. The service was better, the experience was better, and something that people would look forward too. I am not criticizing what you posted, but I want to point out that flying in pre-deregulation days was a much different experience than it is now.

[JayGee]

An open note to all that travel on my sad excuse for an employer (I've been practicing how to say "I'm sorry" in a multitude of languages): buy a 20oz beverage for $2 from the airport gift shops. Not only do they have resealable caps, you won't be encouraging this ridiculous idea from my employer's inept management and you'll get 8 more ounces of diet coke. And remember, if you say you don't feel well, flight crews are required to give you a drink free of charge. Does anybody "feel well" crammed into a tiny seat with no leg room? I didn't think so. So see, no worries about being dishonest.

Seems to me if they are going to do this drink thing, do it right. Just chuck the beverage carts altoghether. Figure if half the people on the plane buy a drink (probably a high estimate), they'll make maybe $200. It probably cost them more than that in fuel to transport the cart, plus you've added more people than before bringing extra drinks (weight) on. They might as well just ditch the cart and save the fuel $$$$$. Just keep some water for emergencies. Face it folks, until ticket prices start reflecting realistic costs, these are just really fast, high buses. Don't expect anything more.

[CltFlyer]

The Panama City route is now going to be canceled. I think this is the start of more to come.

Don't Forget Montreal which started July 8th!

[CltFlyer]

Also the CO 735 on the EWR is continuing thourgh at least the winter season.

[uptownliving]

Don't Forget Montreal which started July 8th!

I hadn't heard about the Montreal flight being cut...when is the last day?

[CltFlyer]

I hadn't heard about the Montreal flight being cut...when is the last day?

sorry for confusion that was supppose to go on destinations added list.

[monsoon]

I thought there was already a direct flight there.

[Miesian Corners]

But in those days, seat pitches were better and you almost never had to sit by someone because they didn't fill the planes to capacity. The service was better, the experience was better, and something that people would look forward too. I am not criticizing what you posted, but I want to point out that flying in pre-deregulation days was a much different experience than it is now.

That's part of the point, regulation of aviation meant that airlines didn't have to compete for your business. Shouldn't the object (in terms of a biz model) be to fill every seat for the revenue?

[monsoon]

^You do have a good point. However I am not sure where the trade off between craming the plane to capacity and cutting out all of the amenities, vs cutting ticket prices comes into play. I was only saying that it's not an apples to apples comparison between the flying experience of pre-deregulation. We also had People's Express in Charlotte in the mid 80s, which offered very cheap prices, but was very short on some features that people expect on flights.

I do completely agree that ticket prices don't reflect the true costs to operate jets these days as can be seen by the huge losses being run up by each of the major airlines. This was the reason for my earlier contention that it won't continue indefinitely and then there will be a major change in the airline business paradigm. It's going to become much smaller and only used by people willing to pay dearly for speed. The hub and spoke system as we know it today will disappear if for anything else, there won't be as many planes flying and the need for such hubs will disappear. (barring some technological change that reduces the amount of fossil fuel jets use)

A very glaring example of this is the Concord. It was a marvel of technology but there simply were not enough people in the world that could pay the energy costs of supporting such a plane and it eventually disappeared and no efforts are taking place to develop a replacement. Now that fuel is going up greatly in cost, this same effect is going to move further down the airline food chain.

[Raintree21]

The FAA announced today that Charlotte-Douglas will receive a new set of runway lights similar to stop lights that are linked to sensors that monitor the location and movement of all planes and vehicles. They also plan to install moving-map displays and aerial alert systems to help guide pilots.

Airport authorities also announced that Shelco, Inc. has won the bid to build a new parking deck at Wilkinson Blvd. and Harlee Ave. It will have 3,200 spaces and should be completed sometime in late 2009.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Raintree21

[CltFlyer]

I thought there was already a direct flight there.

The route has been attempted many times before in the past. Hopefully it will last now that they tried with a bigger aircraft;.