Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[InitialD]

This is the layout of the intermodal rail yard at CLT and how it relates to the new runway. This is from Jerry Orr's presentation at Friday's Transportation summit. He also said the next runway will go between the new runway and the current runway. My guess if/when this 4th parallel runway gets built they will do like ATL does for their runways that are close to each other; of the the runways will handle only landings and the other only takeoffs.

[cltheel.sdl]

Will the new intermodal rail yard replace much of the current rail yard that's off North Tryon? I would love to see them redevelop that rail yard as a park.

[atlrvr]

Will the new intermodal rail yard replace much of the current rail yard that's off North Tryon? I would love to see them redevelop that rail yard as a park.

No....I think about 1/6th of the total rail yard area currently off N Tryon. It will be the seciton closest to N Brevard.

[JayGee]

This is the layout of the intermodal rail yard at CLT and how it relates to the new runway. This is from Jerry Orr's presentation at Friday's Transportation summit. He also said the next runway will go between the new runway and the current runway. My guess if/when this 4th parallel runway gets built they will do like ATL does for their runways that are close to each other; of the the runways will handle only landings and the other only takeoffs.

One thing you don't see mentioned very much is the new bridge connecting Old Dowd directly to Wilkinson Blvd. I think that's a great improvement.

I was up there the other day and saw yet another car make a u-turn on Old Dowd after they realize they've passed the airport, then proceed to the rental car lot. Great way to treat our visitors. Wonder when the new signage will go up.

[New Name]

No....I think about 1/6th of the total rail yard area currently off N Tryon. It will be the seciton closest to N Brevard.

but is this about 1/6th?

This is only the truck yards - not touching any tracks. I wonder if the truck yards are considered Railroad ROW, or private land.

Edited August 18, 2009 by The Escapists

[nyxmike]

Did they mention a timeline on when the relocation of the railyard will occur?

[atlrvr]

yeah.....about 1/6th

I said that, because I was part of a group that submitted for an RFP on this property many years ago, and the numbers that stuck in my brain were 20 acres of the 120 total acres, but I could be mis-remembering

[Miesian Corners]

Just returned from a vacation that included a visit to Portland, OR (PDX). I am always amazed at how a hub airport such as CLT can look and operate so much more poorly than an airport with far less service. PDX is older than CLT, but the terminal has been updated by architects who know how to impress. It's open and airy, the concourses are skylight-lit, offers LRT to its downtown, has more (and more impressive) retail for travelers, and has more lanes available for TSA passenger screening.

[15895]

Just returned from a vacation that included a visit to Portland, OR (PDX). I am always amazed at how a hub airport such as CLT can look and operate so much more poorly than an airport with far less service.

Why are you amazed? The reason that Charlotte is a major hub airport is because it's cheap. The reason pittsburgh is no longer a hub is because they became expensive to operate out of.

[Miesian Corners]

Why are you amazed? The reason that Charlotte is a major hub airport is because it's cheap. The reason pittsburgh is no longer a hub is because they became expensive to operate out of.

Yeah, I work for US Airways and am very much aware of what transpires at my employer and its hubs. That said, dirt, poor maintenance, lackluster architecture, and a general disdain for anything the least bit current is inexcusable. I mean, shouldn't customers be able to find their flights on a television monitor that works? Flying to Ft Lauderdale and want to find your gate? Sorry, the monitor that contains the "Fs" is burned out and has been since last year.

[15895]

Yeah, I work for US Airways and am very much aware of what transpires at my employer and its hubs. That said, dirt, poor maintenance, lackluster architecture, and a general disdain for anything the least bit current is inexcusable. I mean, shouldn't customers be able to find their flights on a television monitor that works? Flying to Ft Lauderdale and want to find your gate? Sorry, the monitor that contains the "Fs" is burned out and has been since last year.

I didn't mean to discredit you. I don't work for US Airways nor related in anyway to LCC. And I don't know what transpires through your employer nor its hub. My strong points are Iberia, Spanair, Air Europa, Vueling, and Ryanair But, I always found Airways to be an interesting airline to follow.

So, you're probably right, anyway. I was just trying to reason out as to why Charlotte's airport may not be as good as other airports.

[Miesian Corners]

I didn't mean to discredit you. I don't work for US Airways nor related in anyway to LCC. And I don't know what transpires through your employer nor its hub. My strong points are Iberia, Spanair, Air Europa, Vueling, and Ryanair But, I always found Airways to be an interesting airline to follow.

So, you're probably right, anyway. I was just trying to reason out as to why Charlotte's airport may not be as good as other airports.

No worries, I didn't take you comment as trying to discredit me. I do plenty of that on my own.

Anyway, PHL is almost as cheap to operate as CLT (in per passenger terms), but even it is a cleaner, more efficient terminal now. I am a firm believer that Jerry Orr (the aviation director here at CLT) is the reason that we stay firmly entrenched in the 1990s. As PHL cleans up its act, CLT has now earned the dubious title of "Hillbilly Philly".

[JayGee]

Well it is true that one of the reasons for CLT's success is that it is very low cost to the airlines, one of the lowest in the country, and that probably is due, at least in part, to the less ambitious construction and expansion plans.

But there really is no excuse for things like those deplorable monitors. How embarrassing. And sub-standard signage around the airport. I think both are being fixed soon. And I don't think I've ever been through the airport when at least one of the escalators or moving sidewalks wasn't out of commission.

In CLT's defense again, while comparing per passenger fees for the airlines to PHL, compare parking costs, which the customer has to pay directly.

Daily parking in one of the new decks is $6 at CLT, remote lot parking at PHL is $11, almost double.

Short term deck at CLT is .75 per 1/2 hour I believe, its $3 up to 1/2 hour at CLT. And if you just zip in and out, they generally don't charge you. Try that at Philly!

And while the baggage claim area is a dump (being renovated), there is nothing wrong with the newer areas; food court, D, E (long walk though), etc. I could be wrong, but I don't think we'll see any more 'SkyMalls' since 9/11 has changed security procedures forever.

[Temeteron]

So I went to the airport the other day to pick up my friend....I noticed they changed the main sign of the airport (at the entrance)....it was like a reddish pink, now its blue. Looks better I guess.....now if they could just change the freakin ugly old tv monitors into flat screens and have some more retail in the airport it would be even better!

[JayGee]

So I went to the airport the other day to pick up my friend....I noticed they changed the main sign of the airport (at the entrance)....it was like a reddish pink, now its blue. Looks better I guess.....now if they could just change the freakin ugly old tv monitors into flat screens and have some more retail in the airport it would be even better!

I'm pretty sure the monitor project is funded. I don't know what they are planning though.

[CltFlyer]

Well it is true that one of the reasons for CLT's success is that it is very low cost to the airlines, one of the lowest in the country, and that probably is due, at least in part, to the less ambitious construction and expansion plans.

But there really is no excuse for things like those deplorable monitors. How embarrassing. And sub-standard signage around the airport. I think both are being fixed soon. And I don't think I've ever been through the airport when at least one of the escalators or moving sidewalks wasn't out of commission.

In CLT's defense again, while comparing per passenger fees for the airlines to PHL, compare parking costs, which the customer has to pay directly.

Daily parking in one of the new decks is $6 at CLT, remote lot parking at PHL is $11, almost double.

Short term deck at CLT is .75 per 1/2 hour I believe, its $3 up to 1/2 hour at CLT. And if you just zip in and out, they generally don't charge you. Try that at Philly!

And while the baggage claim area is a dump (being renovated), there is nothing wrong with the newer areas; food court, D, E (long walk though), etc. I could be wrong, but I don't think we'll see any more 'SkyMalls' since 9/11 has changed security procedures forever.

Clt has no need for a sky mall since 70% of the traffic is connecting and most of those connections are tight and normally not delayed (unlike other airports like Philly) they would not have time to go shopping anyways.

[cltbwimob]

As US Airways begins to beef up their international portfolio from CLT, I have been wondering about future international routes from the airport. So my question is what do UP posters think that int'l flights from CLT will look like in 2020 if US Airways is not bought by a competitor and it doesn't go into Chap 7 Bankruptcy.

Already Here

US LGW A330-300

US CDG A330-300 (A330-300 next summer)

US FRA A330-300 (A350-900??)

LH MUC A340-600

Soon to come

US GIG 767-200

US GRU (A330-200/A350-800??)

Possibilities by 2020

US FCO (A330-200/A350-800??)

US DUB (767-200/A350-800??)

US MAD (757-200??)

US AMS (767-200/A350-800??)

US ZRH (767-200/A350-800??)

US BOG (A321-200??)

US EZE (A330-200/A350-800??)

US SCL (A330-200/A350-800??)

US CCS (A321-200??)

US LIM (A320-200??)

US HKG (A350-800??)

LH FRA (A340-300??)

BA LHR (777-200??)

BMI MAN (A330-200??)

ANA NRT (787-9??)

SAS CPH/ARN (A330-300??)

Obviously most of this list is speculative. Some I do think have a higher possibility than others. I think FCO and BOG are highly likely because US has tried to get slots to those before and I assume will try again when the opportunity comes. I also think most of the other South American cities will eventually see service from CLT as US looks to build a South American hub at CLT. I think that BA is likely to restart service to CLT in the not-to-distant future; they were able to maintain a daily for 3 years to London after US started their competing service (until shortly after 9/11 and the subsequent drop in air travel). I think NRT is a distinct possibility due to the significant amount of Japanese companies in the area relative to other countries represented. There have also been rumors on UP that once ANA gets its 787 fleet, it will be looking to expand to CLT, and US just began a codeshare agreement with them. I see MAD as a possibilty because it is rumored to be on Jerry Orr's wish list. I think DUB will also happen due to what I perceive as high local interest.

The other routes are probably less likely, but who knows...SAS might come to town, as we increase the number of Scandanavian businesses. Lufthansa might want to reopen a route to FRA as the city has a strong German presence, and stands to get stronger as Siemens bolsters it local operation, and with a possible HQ move by Freightliner.

(All A/C types in parenthesis represent what I think are possible aircraft to serve the routes by 2020, including the A350's which US is slated to take delivery beginning in 2015. As stated before, most of this list is simple speculation)

[jednc]

No worries, I didn't take you comment as trying to discredit me. I do plenty of that on my own.

Anyway, PHL is almost as cheap to operate as CLT (in per passenger terms), but even it is a cleaner, more efficient terminal now. I am a firm believer that Jerry Orr (the aviation director here at CLT) is the reason that we stay firmly entrenched in the 1990s. As PHL cleans up its act, CLT has now earned the dubious title of "Hillbilly Philly".

I can only imagine the type person who would refer to Charlotte as "Hillbilly Philly". I'm sure I wouldn't like them.

[JayGee]

I can only imagine the type person who would refer to Charlotte as "Hillbilly Philly". I'm sure I wouldn't like them.

I could imagine somebody from Philly doing that.

[Miesian Corners]

I can only imagine the type person who would refer to Charlotte as "Hillbilly Philly". I'm sure I wouldn't like them.

Hate to tell you, but it's a term many of our frequent travelers have come up with (and many an airline crew member use on a daily basis). Items such as the a/c not working this week helps cement this way of thinking. Today, all of the gate counters had electric fans for employees. B & C concourses l had to be at least 85F. What else was not working today? Moving sidewalks between the terminal and concourses D & E, the up escalator from baggage claim to ticketing, and the elevator at C Security Checkpoint. Oh, and as always, three FIDS monitors in the main terminal were black.

[nyxmike]

Well, Jerry Orr is kind of a hillbilly himself. I agree that we really do need a new aviation director. Speaking of the horrible monitors, I thought the airport was finally getting new, flat-screen ones??

[HopHead]

I could imagine somebody from Philly doing that.

It's Philly, what do you expect? They are the same city that boos Santa Claus...

[caterpillar2]

I can only imagine the type person who would refer to Charlotte as "Hillbilly Philly". I'm sure I wouldn't like them.

Just another person that has never been to Charlotte and can only make a judgement based on what his southern hating parents told him years ago. Bless his heart

[uptownliving]

Speaking of the horrible monitors, I thought the airport was finally getting new, flat-screen ones??

Yep...everything has been approved and the contract let...should be installed by the end of the year.

[uptownliving]

The airport's newsletter Connections just came out with the Summer edition and it has a good synopsis of all the projects going on at the airport...with pics/ renderings.

-New Runway paving complete

-New Entrance sign

-Baggage Bathroom renovation

-Renderings of expanded Terminal

-New Laptop charging stations

etc.etc

Check it out here:

http://www.charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres/egyjf...er2009final.pdf