Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[JayGee]

Well, Jerry Orr is kind of a hillbilly himself. I agree that we really do need a new aviation director. Speaking of the horrible monitors, I thought the airport was finally getting new, flat-screen ones??

Jerry is frequently praised by city council as aviation director for CLT being so well run and keeping costs down. Well if they knew about all of the maintenance issues, they would think differently. I don't know if he is cutting costs by cutting maintenance, he's an idiot if he is, but I know that proper maintenance would not increase costs significantly. Hmmm, might be just bad management.

I think its interesting too that the new multi-million dollar baggage handling they are putting in is four outgoing only. Does not benefit anybody coming in, you will still have to wait.

[southslider]

Looking at the master plan for the intermodal center, how in this post-9/11-world would freight trains be allowed to pull into an area between two major runways?

[InitialD]

Looking at the master plan for the intermodal center, how in this post-9/11-world would freight trains be allowed to pull into an area between two major runways?

They will run under the taxiways in a 40 foot deep trench. As far as the security, don't know much about that.

[HopHead]

While I know we continue to complain about the monitors and other thing that need upgrading at CLT, has anyone been to Logan airport in Boston? I was there yesterday, and you want to talk about an airport that needs an upgrade, at least on the US Airways side... Their monitors are far more hideous than CLT's and the baggage claim is equally bad, if not worse... I'm at least happy to hear CLT is moving forward with upgrades. Also, I can't wait to see those parking decks between the terminal and the East/West Daily decks taken down. I had to wait underneath there yesterday while the monsoon of a storm passed by. There were leaks and flooding everywhere. It was really bad. That's the last time I park in the open asphalt parking area.

[15895]

They do plan on keeping the statue of Queen Charlotte, no? In my opinion, that statue is the most iconic structure of Charlotte.

Edited August 29, 2009 by AirNostrumMAD

[CltFlyer]

As US Airways begins to beef up their international portfolio from CLT, I have been wondering about future international routes from the airport. So my question is what do UP posters think that int'l flights from CLT will look like in 2020 if US Airways is not bought by a competitor and it doesn't go into Chap 7 Bankruptcy.

Already Here

US LGW A330-300

US CDG A330-300 (A330-300 next summer)

US FRA A330-300 (A350-900??)

LH MUC A340-600

Soon to come

US GIG 767-200

US GRU (A330-200/A350-800??)

Possibilities by 2020

US FCO (A330-200/A350-800??)

US DUB (767-200/A350-800??)

US MAD (757-200??)

US AMS (767-200/A350-800??)

US ZRH (767-200/A350-800??)

US BOG (A321-200??)

US EZE (A330-200/A350-800??)

US SCL (A330-200/A350-800??)

US CCS (A321-200??)

US LIM (A320-200??)

US HKG (A350-800??)

LH FRA (A340-300??)

BA LHR (777-200??)

BMI MAN (A330-200??)

ANA NRT (787-9??)

SAS CPH/ARN (A330-300??)

Obviously most of this list is speculative. Some I do think have a higher possibility than others. I think FCO and BOG are highly likely because US has tried to get slots to those before and I assume will try again when the opportunity comes. I also think most of the other South American cities will eventually see service from CLT as US looks to build a South American hub at CLT. I think that BA is likely to restart service to CLT in the not-to-distant future; they were able to maintain a daily for 3 years to London after US started their competing service (until shortly after 9/11 and the subsequent drop in air travel). I think NRT is a distinct possibility due to the significant amount of Japanese companies in the area relative to other countries represented. There have also been rumors on UP that once ANA gets its 787 fleet, it will be looking to expand to CLT, and US just began a codeshare agreement with them. I see MAD as a possibilty because it is rumored to be on Jerry Orr's wish list. I think DUB will also happen due to what I perceive as high local interest.

The other routes are probably less likely, but who knows...SAS might come to town, as we increase the number of Scandanavian businesses. Lufthansa might want to reopen a route to FRA as the city has a strong German presence, and stands to get stronger as Siemens bolsters it local operation, and with a possible HQ move by Freightliner.

(All A/C types in parenthesis represent what I think are possible aircraft to serve the routes by 2020, including the A350's which US is slated to take delivery beginning in 2015. As stated before, most of this list is simple speculation)

I wouldn't be surprised to see fco starting up next summer on a 762. I think if we serve manchester from clt it will be us on a 752 and i think dub will be a 752 as well......if lima is started i think it is on a ta 752. I can never see hkg, ams or mad happening. but i think sas may come for star alliance connections.......this is my two cents.

[JayGee]

While I know we continue to complain about the monitors and other thing that need upgrading at CLT, has anyone been to Logan airport in Boston? I was there yesterday, and you want to talk about an airport that needs an upgrade, at least on the US Airways side... Their monitors are far more hideous than CLT's and the baggage claim is equally bad, if not worse... I'm at least happy to hear CLT is moving forward with upgrades. Also, I can't wait to see those parking decks between the terminal and the East/West Daily decks taken down. I had to wait underneath there yesterday while the monsoon of a storm passed by. There were leaks and flooding everywhere. It was really bad. That's the last time I park in the open asphalt parking area.

I used to fly into Logan quite a bit. I believe there were two US Airways concourses, one was not too bad, one was a dump. I don't remember specifically about the monitors, but the one with the Legal Seafood and Fox Sports restaurant didn't seem too bad.

[kickazzz2000]

Just playing with the US Airways interactive route map: When I click on CLT and select "Show all direct routes from Charlotte" CLT-DUB and CLT-FCO come up as straight lines. There is no CLT-GIG or GRU, however.

Thought that was interesting.

[cltbwimob]

Just playing with the US Airways interactive route map: When I click on CLT and select "Show all direct routes from Charlotte" CLT-DUB and CLT-FCO come up as straight lines. There is no CLT-GIG or GRU, however.

Thought that was interesting.

Those routes are 1 stop routes thru Philly that operate the same flight number despite the fact that there is a change of planes in PHL. Hence they are "Direct Routes" theoretically, however they are pretty much the exact same as a connecting flight.

As for GIG and GRU, I am assuming they will place those flights on the route map once they start.

[Bikeguy]

Can anyone on this thread advise how takeoffs and landings patterns are chosen and who does the choosing ? And what patterns are expected when the new runway is opened?

In the evenings it seems that the incoming planes are lined up coming in from the southwest.. why from that direction? I bring this up because recently it seems that takeoffs are rattling our cages much more often in the Park Rd / Sharon Rd area...

Finally, I know that in certain communities ( John Wayne - Orange County airport for one ) airlines are now required to mitigate their impact during takeoffs and can only juice up when they are well away from populated areas... Is this something that could be required at Charlotte Douglas ?

[cltbwimob]

Can anyone on this thread advise how takeoffs and landings patterns are chosen and who does the choosing ? And what patterns are expected when the new runway is opened?

In the evenings it seems that the incoming planes are lined up coming in from the southwest.. why from that direction? I bring this up because recently it seems that takeoffs are rattling our cages much more often in the Park Rd / Sharon Rd area...

Finally, I know that in certain communities ( John Wayne - Orange County airport for one ) airlines are now required to mitigate their impact during takeoffs and can only juice up when they are well away from populated areas... Is this something that could be required at Charlotte Douglas ?

Two large factors in runway consideration are wind and noise abatement procedures. Planes usually take off into the wind and land into the wind because it increases airspeed (not groundspeed) over the wings which provides more lift. The more lift you have, the easier it is to control your descent rate, and the less likely you will be to stall (loss of lift...very bad when in a landing situatuion). However, wind is an issue that is probably not a big factor in CLT since the air is relatively calm usually. Obviously the wind becomes a bigger factor with the approach/passage of a front or storm due to the increased wind speed, however since you say the planes line up from the SW at night it is more than likely due to noise restrictions for the residential areas to the North.

[Bikeguy]

Two large factors in runway consideration are wind and noise abatement procedures. Planes usually take off into the wind and land into the wind because it increases airspeed (not groundspeed) over the wings which provides more lift. The more lift you have, the easier it is to control your descent rate, and the less likely you will be to stall (loss of lift...very bad when in a landing situatuion). However, wind is an issue that is probably not a big factor in CLT since the air is relatively calm usually. Obviously the wind becomes a bigger factor with the approach/passage of a front or storm due to the increased wind speed, however since you say the planes line up from the SW at night it is more than likely due to noise restrictions for the residential areas to the North.

Thanks, but who makes the call to require planes to hold off on goosing it until they reach a certain altitude and/or distance from populated areas..?

[cltbwimob]

Thanks, but who makes the call to require planes to hold off on goosing it until they reach a certain altitude and/or distance from populated areas..?

I am pretty sure those rules are via the FAA and they are different for each airport and for different times of the day.

[JayGee]

I am pretty sure those rules are via the FAA and they are different for each airport and for different times of the day.

Yes, it's the FAA per the noise abatement procedures. This doesn't mean they always obey, though. And safety is always the first consideration.

[Bikeguy]

Yes, it's the FAA per the noise abatement procedures. This doesn't mean they always obey, though. And safety is always the first consideration.

In Cleveland about two years ago a decision was made to alter the flight take offs from one runway to another. The neighborhood directly to the north of Hopkins International, Fairview Park, saw what was an incessant number of fly overs that shook their foundations, drop to a dribble. Home values have since soared. Here in Charlotte, the Lakewood neighborhood ( Rozzells Ferry Rd- I-85- & Tuckasseege) is under constant siege during the hub hours.. while Myers Park sleeps in peace...

[Miesian Corners]

Clt has no need for a sky mall since 70% of the traffic is connecting and most of those connections are tight and normally not delayed (unlike other airports like Philly) they would not have time to go shopping anyways.

Huh? Then why do MSP, PDX, IND, DTW, etc. all have them? Minneapolis/St Paul is probably one of the nicest airports to fly through in terms of services. Spotlessly clean, modern (although the terminal and two main concourses were built in 1965), and loaded with restaurants, shops, and business services. It also has a really famous bathroom.

[Temeteron]

Huh? Then why do MSP, PDX, IND, DTW, etc. all have them? Minneapolis/St Paul is probably one of the nicest airports to fly through in terms of services. Spotlessly clean, modern (although the terminal and two main concourses were built in 1965), and loaded with restaurants, shops, and business services. It also has a really famous bathroom.

I agree. Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport had so much shopping I thought I was at the Mall of America lol......and their airport isn't as busy as ours.....why doesnt CLT-Douglas have more shopping??

[cltbwimob]

I was just looking on Wikipedia and found some information that I hope is true.

Apparently US Airways, according to Charlotte Douglas wiki will be adding multiple international destinations from CLT in 2010.

In addition to Sao Paulo, US Airways also is going to add the following:

Rome

Dublin

Curaco

Buenos Aires

Aslo I read on flyertalk.com that US will run it's service to CDG through the end of the year

Can someone,maybe a US Airways employee if any post here, please verify these rumors?

[CltFlyer]

I actually added those myself last night after reading on usaviation.com under usairways aviation forum. and the thread translantic schedule changes (it should be one of the first threads. someone posted that word on the international street in charlotte is that those routes will be opened next year by usairways their is no links so i can't verify any of that but if you want a rough source go to the usaviation.com i do hope the routes get added though. And i am also cltflyer on usavation and cltflyer1 on flyer talk and i did some research and still found the cdg flights ending in late october.

Edited September 20, 2009 by CltFlyer

[cltbwimob]

^

I read on that forum that CLT-MAD is being looked at as well.

Within the next 5 years I expect (If US Airways remains in current form)

CLT-LGW,CDG,FRA,FCO,MAD,DUB (US)

CLT-MUC (LH)

CLT-GIG,GRU,EZE,BOG (If slots become available again)(US)

I also think CCS,LIM,SCL are possibilities and maybe one day Quito, Ecuador.

What are the possibilities that BA would return it's service to London and LH return it's old service to FRA in addition to the US flight?

[15895]

I read on that forum that CLT-MAD is being looked at as well.

I hope so! I'd love to have a flight between the capital and the queen city . I fly between the two cities often: a nonstop would be so awesome!

[Miesian Corners]

I was just looking on Wikipedia and found some information that I hope is true.

Apparently US Airways, according to Charlotte Douglas wiki will be adding multiple international destinations from CLT in 2010.

In addition to Sao Paulo, US Airways also is going to add the following:

Rome

Dublin

Curaco

Buenos Aires

Aslo I read on flyertalk.com that US will run it's service to CDG through the end of the year

Can someone,maybe a US Airways employee if any post here, please verify these rumors?

The only rumors I hear at work is that Rome will probably be added next summer. It will be seasonal and will utilize a 767. And Curacao is pretty much a no brainer. I'm actually surprised we don't fly there now. As for all that other service, I have no idea how we would be able to fly all of those routes with the current fleet plan. Although we're accepting delivery of five new A330s before the end of the year, some of those will be replacing 757s to be retired. And there is talk of operating a second daily nonstop to TLV. If that were to happen, two airplanes would be required to operate it (meaning 4 of the new aircraft would be used on one city pair).

One big plus, CLT-CDG will be operated earlier next year utilizing an A330-300

Edited September 20, 2009 by Miesian Corners

[cltbwimob]

^

Thanks for the info. Maybe one day CLT will serve all those destinations. Hopefully it will add flights with the A330-200 as well, maybe Sao Paulo will be an A330-200.

[CltFlyer]

The only rumors I hear at work is that Rome will probably be added next summer. It will be seasonal and will utilize a 767. And Curacao is pretty much a no brainer. I'm actually surprised we don't fly there now. As for all that other service, I have no idea how we would be able to fly all of those routes with the current fleet plan. Although we're accepting delivery of five new A330s before the end of the year, some of those will be replacing 757s to be retired. And there is talk of operating a second daily nonstop to TLV. If that were to happen, two airplanes would be required to operate it (meaning 4 of the new aircraft would be used on one city pair).

One big plus, CLT-CDG will be operated earlier next year utilizing an A330-300

If dublin starts i hear that bhx snn and gla may be closing which would free up and allow a 75L to be flown on clt-dub. And i have also heard we have had rights to buenos aires for quite some time and it appears from early schedules that enough past 767 flights are being upgraded to 332's to allow for a 762 on the eze route. examples 332: bcn (surprising), lhr, 2nd fra ( which i assume is the 333 going to clt-cdg), muc, ath still shows as 767 but im sure that will change.

[wellington]

In addition to Sao Paulo, US Airways also is going to add the following:

Rome

Dublin

Curaco

Buenos Aires

I'm sure Gov. Sanford will be looking forward to that.