Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[15895]

Agreed with Miesian Corners... I think this stands to benefit Charlotte dramatically. We're the only hub city in the southeast for both airlines, not to mention the largest and lowest cost. Just to speculate, could a possible United/US Airways HQ be set up here? I think with USA's continued focus here, it's a possibility. Isn't United based in Chicago?

I think Charlotte has a very very good chance of becoming the new HQ. Especially with Parker most likely being the new CEO. I to think Charlotte will benefit greatly from a potential merger. It gives US Airways a much better chance for international expansion (Especially with 787's on the books and just a lot more metal in general) in Charlotte.

I also think that US/United would add some United spokes to the Charlotte hub. US Airways independent or US Airways/United merged, I think the Charlotte hub has a very bright future either way.

Edited April 8, 2010 by AirNostrumMAD

[Urbanity]

In potentially fantastic news, Norfolk Southern is near cemeting the deal to build a major intermodal yard at the airport. I believe this has been talked about before, but the details in the article really spark my thoughts about how well placed Charlotte would be for companies, commerce, trade and retail once it is completed.

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2010/04/12/story3.html?b=1271044800^3161461

[dubone]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/35587844?slide=6

Seems that satisfaction is pretty high with the airport.

[grodney]

We went to the overlook park on Saturday. A large % of incoming flights were landing on the new runway. I'm no air traffic controller, but they seemed to be doing a horrible job of getting the incoming planes across the old runway and to the terminal. I know it's only a few minutes at most, but it seemed like forever to me, and I imagine longer to those sitting on the plane.

With only a small backlog of departures (and very few landings on the departure runway), I couldn't see any reason to make 5 or 6 planes sit idle and wait for 4, 5, or 6 take-offs before crossing the runway.

[cltbwimob]

Well, it's official...US and UA were talking, and now those merger talks have officially ended. I don't know whether that's good for Charlotte or not. On the one hand, a merger could have provided the two airlines with a means to combat rising fuel costs and could have made Charlotte a stronger (although maybe a smaller) hub.

On the other hand, US Airways, in my estimation seems to be betting the farm on Charlotte. As such, US is adding a ton of flights this summer bringing the total to 615 daily departures. I just didn't see a combined UA/US putting as much emphasis on growth from CLT as US currently does. I think UA would have retained the CLT hub, but the city would have probably lost some flights.

Edited April 22, 2010 by cltbwimob

[southslider]

^It's bad for Charlotte if now a United and Continental merger instead ultimately leads to US Airways not being able to compete.

[15895]

^It's bad for Charlotte if now a United and Continental merger instead ultimately leads to US Airways not being able to compete.

Hm. Well, US Airways is "LCC" and competes on cost. One less airline just means higher airfares which will only benefit US.

United and Continental are among friends. They're *A members. Besides, I have a hard time seeing United/Continental merging. They'd control +-50% of the Atlantic and Pacific respectively. I don't see this happening under the Dem's control.

[Miesian Corners]

If UA and CO merge, AA will have no choice but to make a bid for US. They will not sit back and comfortably become a distant #3.

[southslider]

^AA and US? Talk about a nightmare merger, even if out of necessity. At least the former America West folks could then vent with the former TWA ones.

[15895]

If UA and CO merge, AA will have no choice but to make a bid for US. They will not sit back and comfortably become a distant #3.

No wAAy US & AA.

American will continue to be a distant 3rd because they'll dismantle the US system. Not to mention, why in the world would US Airways want anything to do with American? American is a trainwreck and I'd be more than happy to pass that offer up.

US - I believe - is supposed to turn a profit this year.

[Miesian Corners]

No wAAy US & AA.

American will continue to be a distant 3rd because they'll dismantle the US system. Not to mention, why in the world would US Airways want anything to do with American? American is a trainwreck and I'd be more than happy to pass that offer up.

US - I believe - is supposed to turn a profit this year.

We (US) sold airplanes in October to meet the SEC's cash requirements. That doesn't sound like a profit is on its way. And between volcanic eruptions and fuel drifting upwards daily, I have to wonder about how long my employer can go on. And American wouldn't want to dismantle the system--they have no Southeastern hub, and their NE presence isn't that great either. There's virtually no overlap in the AA/US system.

But I will agree that it would be an ugly merger. industry-wide, AA employees are sometimes referred to as nAAzis. No airline employee outside of AA cares much for how it treated TWA staff.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Miesian Corners

[15895]

We (US) sold airplanes in October to meet the SEC's cash requirements. That doesn't sound like a profit is on its way. And between volcanic eruptions and fuel drifting upwards daily, I have to wonder about how long my employer can go on.

Well, your employer lost 45 million in Q1 2010 (better than expected) and that's including the winter storm which made US lose 30 million in revenue. Q2 should be profitable for US.

US Airways Q1 Loss Narrows; Anticipates Profitable Q2 - Update

US Airways Group, Inc. (LCC) Tuesday reported a narrower loss for the first quarter, helped by a 7.9% revenue growth driven by higher passenger yields in a recovering economy. The company also noted that it anticipates a profitable second quarter and expects revenue momentum to continue.

http://www.stockmark....com/news/5458/

American Airlines lost 505 million;

While the nation’s other largest airlines are expected to post full-year profits for 2010, AMR is expected to keep losing money. It has high labor costs and hasn’t been able to boost passenger traffic, which rose only 0.4 percent over the recession-burdened first quarter of 2009.

http://blog.taragana...ter-loss-52398/

Edited April 27, 2010 by AirNostrumMAD

[Miesian Corners]

Well, your employer lost 45 million in Q1 2010 (better than expected) and that's including the winter storm which made US lose 30 million in revenue. Q2 should be profitable for US.

US Airways Q1 Loss Narrows; Anticipates Profitable Q2 - Update

US Airways Group, Inc. (LCC) Tuesday reported a narrower loss for the first quarter, helped by a 7.9% revenue growth driven by higher passenger yields in a recovering economy. The company also noted that it anticipates a profitable second quarter and expects revenue momentum to continue.

http://www.stockmark....com/news/5458/

American Airlines lost 505 million;

While the nation’s other largest airlines are expected to post full-year profits for 2010, AMR is expected to keep losing money. It has high labor costs and hasn’t been able to boost passenger traffic, which rose only 0.4 percent over the recession-burdened first quarter of 2009.

http://blog.taragana...ter-loss-52398/

A small profit does nothing if you still have no liquidity. AA has far more cash on hand and can weather a storm far better than US can. They can bleed longer and heavier than US can.

[cltbwimob]

^ IIRC AA had about 2.3-2.6 billion in unrestricted cash last year whereas US had about 1.3 billion. I don't know all the ins-and-outs of airline financials, but when your losing money a rate of half a billion a quarter, it doesn't take too many quarters to make up that 1 billion dollar difference. This is assuming that each quarterly loss cuts into that 2.3 billion in cash.

Right now US is losing money, however AMR is bleeding like a lacerated femoral artery. Just a couple more quarters like Q1 and AMR may be in a worse cash position than US. In my amateur estimation, AA might soon be weakest of all legacies...I am sure US wouldn't mind relinquishing that title.

[15895]

A small profit does nothing if you still have no liquidity. AA has far more cash on hand and can weather a storm far better than US can. They can bleed longer and heavier than US can.

I was adressing the fact that you said "That doesn't sound like a profit is on its way." The storm is subsiding. Hence the reason every major carrier in the US is expected to have a profit in 2010 excluding American. What enviornmental storm is American facing that NO other airline is facing?

From what I gather, American Airlines' plan is to wait until all the competition's cost come into line with American Airlines. How does that do anything for American's profitability? Is that a viable plan? Can American wait that long? American also banks on the ATI with Ibera/British Airways to help return them to profitability... Do you honestly think ATI is going to stop American Airlines from bleeding red? What does American Airlines do to return to profitability?

I do not at all see how you would think a merger with American Airlines would be at all beneficial for US... Why do you feel a need to merge with American Airlines as opposed to remaining a stand alone carrier.

On a side note, US this summer is supposed to be up to 615 daily flights in the Queen City

Edited April 28, 2010 by AirNostrumMAD

[Miesian Corners]

I do not at all see how you would think a merger with American Airlines would be at all beneficial for US... Why do you feel a need to merge with American Airlines as opposed to remaining a stand alone carrier.

Because US Airways has a relatively weak route structure. PHL is the cash cow for the airline because Philadelphia is the 6th biggest city in the country and just happens to be in the most densely populated area of the nation. It acts less as a hub than it does an O & D market. Philly can fill up domestic and international flights without connecting traffic. That said, it's tapped out. Airspace is crowded and the ramp/apron/terminal areas of PHL are even worse. You simply can't add much more capacity there. CLT is the airline's biggest hub because of its cheap real estate and good geography. While our region is growing, we rely solely on connecting traffic to make it work--that's one of the reasons why Tempe keeps adding flights here. Then there's PHX. While Phoenix is a huge city (5th biggest) it's a leisure market (CLT has more biz travelers than PHX). Leisure fares don't pay the bills at a hub-and-spoke carrier. The hub is operating at a loss currently.

Then there's my employer's international presence and teeny-weeny wide body fleet. Delta flies to every continent except Antarctica and has somewhere around 120 wide-body jets. American flies to Asia, Europe, and South America and has nearly 110 wide-body jets. A United-Continental merger would produce a carrier with nearly 160 wide-body jets with flights to more cities than any other carrier in the world. By contrast, US Airways has 26 wide-bodies and serves one destination in South America and 20 in Europe/Middle East.

And to top it off, the CEO of US Airways thinks there's too much capacity and consolidation is the way to go. He wants a merger. Not that I think he's some kind of wiz kid (quite the opposite), I do think he's right on that issue. Regardless of who US ends up merging with, I think CLT stands to benefit. For all I complain and beotch about Jerry Orr, he runs an incredibly cheap operation with good airfield infrastructure. Every carrier flying would love to have a hub operating as cheaply and the use of three parallel runways in with uncrowded airspace.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Miesian Corners

[uptownliving]

Here is the latest timeline for the various construction projects:

Security Checkpoint B Expansion - Complete

Moving of Delta/NW/Continental/United Ticket Counters -Just about complete

Concourse E 120 ft Expansion - Recently Started

Security Checkpoint A Expansion - Starts in June

Daily Parking Deck Phase 1 - Starts this Fall

Tear Down of Current Daily Decks - Late 2011

Daily Parking Deck Phase 2 - Starts Early 2012

Rework of Terminal Roads - Starts Late 2012

Expansion of Ticketing/Baggage Claim - Starts Late 2012

[dubone]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but are they going to use the current road deck structure for the expansion of the terminal (the last step in the list above)?

[Norm2]

They will have to build a new road deck structure I would assume, not use the current one.

[southslider]

Here is the latest timeline for the various construction projects:

Security Checkpoint B Expansion - Complete

Moving of Delta/NW/Continental/United Ticket Counters -Just about complete

Concourse E 120 ft Expansion - Recently Started

Security Checkpoint A Expansion - Starts in June

Daily Parking Deck Phase 1 - Starts this Fall

Tear Down of Current Daily Decks - Late 2011

Daily Parking Deck Phase 2 - Starts Early 2012

Rework of Terminal Roads - Starts Late 2012

Expansion of Ticketing/Baggage Claim - Starts Late 2012

I think you mean the Hourly Decks (West & East). The phasing is structured to keep the current decks open until Phase I is completed.

[HopHead]

Remind me again... The 120 ft expansion of Concourse E is to accomodate additional International flights, correct? Are they adding more gates to the ~32 that are already there? I've only flown out of Concourse E a handful of times but that's all ground level, right? Wouldn't they have to "elevate" the gates for the larger aircraft, especially if they are coming from another country and would require travelers to come through customs?

[dubone]

They will have to build a new road deck structure I would assume, not use the current one.

Well, I meant, I know they'll build the new road as part of the new deck project, but I was wondering if the old road deck will become the second floor of the terminal. It is already level with the terminal, so in theory, they'd just need to build a curtain wall and roof. But I wasn't sure how far out they were going to be expanding. It would be a very Charlotte-airport thing to do to be frugal, so I was wondering if that was the plan

[uptownliving]

I think you mean the Hourly Decks (West & East). The phasing is structured to keep the current decks open until Phase I is completed.

Yep thanks for catching that...Hourly Decks...not Daily.

And to dubone regarding using the existing road deck for the ticketing area. I would not put it past Jerry Orr to do that...but I'm guessing it will come down and they will build a new structure.

[Skyybutter]

Remind me again... The 120 ft expansion of Concourse E is to accomodate additional International flights, correct? Are they adding more gates to the ~32 that are already there? I've only flown out of Concourse E a handful of times but that's all ground level, right? Wouldn't they have to "elevate" the gates for the larger aircraft, especially if they are coming from another country and would require travelers to come through customs?

It makes no sense to add international gates at the end of a commuter terminal... Not only is it FAR from the rest of the airport, plans are in place to add an international terminal on the other side of the A concourse where the rental cars are. Oh well...

[kermit]

Southwest is coming to South Carolina: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Southwest-Airlines-Announces-prnews-517315438.html?x=0&.v=1

Not sure this bodes well for SWA service to CLT.