Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[15895]

Southwest merging with AirTran most likely will be a good thing for US Airways.

Southwest is not a hub/spoke airline. Southwest will most likely cut Airtran's spokes (that rely on hub traffic) and all of Airtrans small east coast destinations and concentrate on point to point O&D traffic.

One of AirTrans largest hubs is at Baltimore. As is Southwest's biggest concentration of flights. Flights to many of them destinations will get slashed and so will flights from Orlando (where Airtran had a hub and Southwest a large concentration of flights).

Industry consolidation benefits US Airways Southwest is not going to be flying Allentown, Pensacola, Newport News, etc. It's either Delta or US now on flights such as Newport News. Unless Southwest continues it which I wouldn't hold my breathe for.

[southslider]

If taking over AirTran, would Southwest then fly to CLT? If so, that could be a boon to the Charlotte consumer.

Otherwise, the loss of AirTran and its routes would not be good. So as to not be held hostage by the Arizona-headquartered, Charlotte-prolific airline, I often rely on AirTran's hub at ATL for significantly cheaper, one-stop flights that connect close to home.

Absent a replacement of AirTran by Southwest, JetBlue would be the only non-legacy (read cheaper) airline left in Charlotte. Granted, I've connected at JFK once for a cheaper flight, but it's not exactly the hop-skip-jump flight that CLT-ATL is, though I think the hip Terminal 5 is a much more pleasant place to wait on a connection than Hartsfield.

[15895]

If taking over AirTran, would Southwest then fly to CLT? If so, that could be a boon to the Charlotte consumer.

Otherwise, the loss of AirTran and its routes would not be good. So as to not be held hostage by the Arizona-headquartered, Charlotte-prolific airline, I often rely on AirTran's hub at ATL for significantly cheaper, one-stop flights that connect close to home.

Absent a replacement of AirTran by Southwest, JetBlue would be the only non-legacy (read cheaper) airline left in Charlotte. Granted, I've connected at JFK once for a cheaper flight, but it's not exactly the hop-skip-jump flight that CLT-ATL is, though I think the hip Terminal 5 is a much more pleasant place to wait on a connection than Hartsfield.

Southwest would keep Charlotte. I could see WN (Southwest) having flights from Charlotte to Baltimore, Orlando, Atlanta, and Chicago. Most likely nothing more.

PS: AirTran generally has lower fares than WN and AirTran flew to smaller destinations that only US Airways and Delta flies to. A competitor was eliminated. This purchase will make fares raise up all around the board. This is not good for consumers.

Edited September 28, 2010 by AirNostrumMAD

[ScottCLT]

I was on a flight back from DC tonight and the October issue of the US Airways magazine was in my seat. The letter from Doug Parker was all about CLT. Also there was a 2-page feature on the airport because of an award received from IATA. CLT was awarded "Best airport of the year" in IATA's Eagle Awards. See below...

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2010-06-07-03.aspx

[kickazzz2000]

Rumor of big long haul AA announcements Wednesday. One of the rumors is a point-to-point (read: non AA hub) route ex LHR.

Wonder if it could be CLT....

[kermit]

Wishful thinking, but I'd be shocked if AA started flying to Europe from CLT. The only airlines we can count on is of course US Airways and maybe Lufthansa (since they fly non-stop to Germany from here) or possibly the return of British Airways.

Unless AA is sizing up US as a merger partner.....

(but I agree, it's a long shot)

[HopHead]

Rumor of big long haul AA announcements Wednesday. One of the rumors is a point-to-point (read: non AA hub) route ex LHR.

Wonder if it could be CLT....

Wishful thinking, but I'd be shocked if AA started flying to Europe from CLT. The only airlines we can count on is of course US Airways and maybe Lufthansa (since they fly non-stop to Germany from here) or possibly the return of British Airways.

[15895]

Unless AA is sizing up US as a merger partner.....

(but I agree, it's a long shot)

I think American has much better places to allocate their resources to than on a flight from Charlotte to London competing against US Airways. Maybe British Airways has enough muscle on the European end to sustain a flight against US?

US would be flying the A330-300 which boast 300 seats VS. American Airlines 757 which boast 180 seats.

Raleigh's (A former American Focus City/Hub) American Airlines flight to London is subsidized... Makes me wonder how lucrative Charlotte is with 300 daily seats going out already. Unless American comes in with some good fairs (which I doubt because their operating cost exceed those of US Airways) I doubt a Charlotte flight would be ok at best.

American would be receiving no elites/premium traffic on the Charlotte side as all of those folks are most likely traveling/connecting with US, Lufthansa, United or other Star Alliance members. So, on the Charlotte side, American would have to be getting yields so low that it's not profitable because US will most likely match the fares and more.

Any of you guys care to share why you think London - Charlotte makes sense?

Edit: @ Dbull, American and British have ATI (or will have ATI soon, I don't keep up with OneWorld news), so if American flies the route, it's just the same as British Airways were flying the route and vice versa. I'm sure you already knew that already, you seem pretty astute in aviation.

Edited October 6, 2010 by AirNostrumMAD

[HopHead]

I'm really not trying to bury this AA expansion talk, but it looks like nothing more than expansion at other airports. According to Marketwatch: American Airlines, British Airways and Iberia announced today four new routes that will start next April as an early benefit of the new joint business. They are: New York JFK-Budapest and Chicago-Helsinki (operated by American), London Heathrow-San Diego (operated by British Airways) and Madrid-Los Angeles (operated by Iberia). This a result of a trilateral venture between BA, AA and Iberia.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/american-airlines-british-airways-and-iberia-announce-better-deal-for-trans-atlantic-flyers-2010-10-06?reflink=MW_news_stmp

I think our International expansion future is still with the usual suspects

Edited October 6, 2010 by dbull75

[kickazzz2000]

Any of you guys care to share why you think London - Charlotte makes sense?

Edit: @ Dbull, American and British have ATI (or will have ATI soon, I don't keep up with OneWorld news), so if American flies the route, it's just the same as British Airways were flying the route and vice versa. I'm sure you already knew that already, you seem pretty astute in aviation.

1. The ATI, as you mentioned in the edit.

2. LHR > LGW (Although US would likely get on the ball and try to get a slot at LHR)

3. There may be enough O/D traffic to sustain two daily flights, especially if the second one is an AA 757.

4. All of this is still unlikely.

[caterpillar2]

I would fly AA just to fly to Heathrow instead of Gatwick.

[ScottCLT]

I would fly AA just to fly to Heathrow instead of Gatwick.

I don't really care whether or not I fly into LGW or LHR when travelling to London. It ends up being a 15 minute difference to get into town on either the Gatwick Express or Heathrow Express. 15 minutes isn't a big deal, especially in the grand scheme of things with a transatlantic flight. And if I get Star Alliance points vs. OneWorld? It's a no brainer for me to fly into Gatwick.

[tiblerbrit]

Yeah, going into Gatwick isn't a big deal at all. Walk through the terminal and get on the Gatwick express, or Thames link and you'll be in the city in about 30 min.

[Miesian Corners]

Don't look for US to move its CLT-LGW to LHR anytime soon. Not only can the airline not get a decently timed slot at LHR for the CLT flight, they're already making lots of money using LGW.

Gatwick is a far easier airport to navigate. Granted, LGW doesn't offer good interline connections, but the vast majority of passengers who use US to LGW are ending their journey in London. A short walk from customs is the Gatwick Rail Station offering a 30 minute train ride to Victoria (among lots of other rail service to the entire southeast of England).

[caterpillar2]

I don't really care whether or not I fly into LGW or LHR when travelling to London. It ends up being a 15 minute difference to get into town on either the Gatwick Express or Heathrow Express. 15 minutes isn't a big deal, especially in the grand scheme of things with a transatlantic flight. And if I get Star Alliance points vs. OneWorld? It's a no brainer for me to fly into Gatwick.

If someone has a flat in north London like me, they find going through Victoria and catching a taxi, bus, or tube is really a pain in the neck. Depending on where one conducts business in London is the factor that determines their choice. For me, Heathrow is much easier. Regardless, I am just glad that it is so easy on this side to get a flight to London. The worse part of my trip is when I get to London fighting moring traffic or the M25 as I usually have a car waiting for me these days.

[InitialD]

Old news now, but who all caught the Antonov An-225 (world's largest plane) at KCLT?

[SentioVenia]

Old news now, but who all caught the Antonov An-225 (world's largest plane) at KCLT?

Man, I wish I could have seen it! I've been trying to catch the An-225 for years at CLT. Seems like it's here every couple years or so.

How did you find out it was coming? We get a 747 come into CLT once every blue moon, too, and I'd love to know how you find out ahead of time when one's coming in.

With most of the flight tracker web sites, I'd have to be monitoring very closely to know.

[InitialD]

Yeah, I wasn't paying attention and missed the delayed departure. It was here back in June as well. I usually don't hear about it until it is already here.

[NcSc74]

Refresh my memory; when will the intl terminal begin construction. From what I read the concourses there are nearly at capacity. Sometimes its a good thing to operate near capacity but it also could limit new flights. Meaning Charlotte is getting some flights because of the number of open gates it had and the ease of expansion.

[southslider]

^The hourly deck has to be rebuilt first, which will accommodate the rental car companies, which currently sit where the International Terminal is planned.

[uptownliving]

In the meantime they are currently expanding Councourse E which will have 2 "Widebody Capable" gates as well as its own FIS area. That will be ready in about a little over a year...in time for the Summer 2012 Season.

The International Terminal probably wont be ready before 2015.

[15895]

In the meantime they are currently expanding Councourse E which will have 2 "Widebody Capable" gates as well as its own FIS area. That will be ready in about a little over a year...in time for the Summer 2012 Season.

The International Terminal probably wont be ready before 2015.

2012 is when US gets more Long-haul aircraft capable of flights to Europe and South America.

So, the new international concourse is on a good time table. Construction of the new terminal begins in late '11 early 2012. Not having the new international terminal until 2014/2015 will not slow down US Airways international expansion in Charlotte. No new international flights should be limited due to lack of gates.

Speaking of expansion, there are several Midwestern and other Deep south destinations I'd like to see Charlotte gain such as Des Moines.

Edited October 21, 2010 by AirNostrumMAD

[HopHead]

^Given the ties with Wells Fargo, I'm surprised that CLT doesn't already have a non-stop to Des Moines. I'd also like to think that Oklahoma City and Omaha, NE is on US Airways' radar. Those are both growing regions.

[atlrvr]

Someone on another forum who claims to have access to CLT airport planning says that Lufthansa recently asked the airport to model in CAD the new Boeing 747-800 at their current gate to see if it will fit. Currently, they park the A340-600 there which is the longest commercial plane, but the new 747-800 will be longer and I guess they want to see if they can use it to fly to Charlotte. LH is 1 of only 2 airlines to order the brand new/bigger 747 and should begin receiving them late next year, so maybe they will start flying it here by summer 2012. Given that only 25 of this plane have ever been ordered, CLT would be one of only a few cities to ever see this plane. Hope it happens.

Also, it is a good sign that LH is interested in putting an even bigger plane on that route. Must mean that demand is strong. I keep hoping that CLT will get another German destination, preferably Dusseldorf, or perhaps the new Berlin airport once it opens. Dusseldorf is probably more likely as a decent number of local German firms are based in the Rhine-Ruhr area.

[kickazzz2000]

Someone on another forum who claims to have access to CLT airport planning says that Lufthansa recently asked the airport to model in CAD the new Boeing 747-800 at their current gate to see if it will fit. Currently, they park the A340-600 there which is the longest commercial plane, but the new 747-800 will be longer and I guess they want to see if they can use it to fly to Charlotte. LH is 1 of only 2 airlines to order the brand new/bigger 747 and should begin receiving them late next year, so maybe they will start flying it here by summer 2012. Given that only 25 of this plane have ever been ordered, CLT would be one of only a few cities to ever see this plane. Hope it happens.

Also, it is a good sign that LH is interested in putting an even bigger plane on that route. Must mean that demand is strong. I keep hoping that CLT will get another German destination, preferably Dusseldorf, or perhaps the new Berlin airport once it opens. Dusseldorf is probably more likely as a decent number of local German firms are based in the Rhine-Ruhr area.

I wonder if Dusseldorf would be a better fit for the Privatair A319 operated by LH...all business class service.

Also, I heard there was a Virgin Atlantic 744 in CLT yesterday to pick up the Niners on their way to LHR for the annual NFL game in London (I forget who they are playing)