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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


uptownliving

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In last weeks bizjournal there was an article about recent changes and expansion and CLT.  While most of the expansion plans have already been discussed ad nauseum on this thread, here are the highlights:

1.  The US Airways hub is now the third largest hub in the nation behind only Delta in Atlanta and American in Dallas/Ft. Worth

2.  The new rental car facility is set to open in 2014.

3.  Jerry Orr said he wants to be ready to begin construction on the International Terminal as soon as the new rental car facility opens, additionally, there are plans apparently to renovate the check-in area.

4.  Mr. Orr is also gunning for Light Rail between uptown and the airport.  (This one was of particular interest to me considering this line could probably be constructed at a relatively low cost.  The HRT Tide which just opened this past weekend was constructed for just over $300 million and is 7.6 miles long.  The route between the airport and uptown would likely be around 6 miles long meaning that LRT might be relatively cheap to implement in that corridor.  If diesel LRT vehicles like those used on the River Line in New Jersey were used, it would be even cheaper.  Additionally, the line may be partially constructed using FAA funds rather than FTA funds if I understood the minutes from one of the AAC meetings correctly.)

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The fact that the Sprinter is relegated to the butt-end of the departures area with virtually no directional signage has always made me think that CLT doesn't place a particularly high priority on supporting CATS. (That is, the Sprinter is remarkably well hidden.) I say this having used the Sprinter for the vast majority of my trips to and from the airport.

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^^^Considering that in the 2030 plan, the airport corridor was last on the priority list and wasn't even slated to be a rapid transit corridor, but a streetcar corridor, I don't think CATS has been willing to show the airport too much love either...  That being said, there are 2 things I would like to point out:

1.  I could see an LRT line getting re-prioritized higher than the SE corridor if the case is made that it would be much cheaper, easier to implement, and could provide high quality rapid transit service much earlier than projected in one of the 5 major corridors.  Additionally, if the line received partial funding through the FAA, that would only help the case for it to be the priority after the BLE and Red Line are completed (circa 2018 if all goes as planned).

2.  No matter how much enhanced bus service you place in between 2 points (i.e. Sprinter), it will not, in most instances, attract nearly the attention and for that matter, the riders that rail service will, which is probably one reason that CATS/Sprinter service does not seem to attract much attention from the airport.  Airport officials, most notably Jerry Orr, believe that as big as the airport is, it should have LRT service.  

Besides, the article I was referring to in my earlier post said that LRT was on the horizon which I took to mean not in the immediate future.

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^Yeah, but the Silver Line in Boston is viable mostly because Logan is on a tangled island. The idea of driving in/out of Logan is so unappealing that people would rather use the Silver Line BRT. If the Blue Line stopped closer to the terminal, the Silver Line wouldn't exist.

I'd say CLT is a breeze to get in/out of the connections to the rest of the city, and even getting better as we speak. I don't think a BRT would ever be widely-used in Charlotte. Light rail, maybe, but that's only because of public opinion of train vs. bus.

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Did CATS identify a routing for airport LRT back in the day? The only plan I remember was the BRT service along Wilkinson, unfortunately my memory is pretty bad these days.

What route would this mythical LRT likely take?

EDIT: If it could be shaped to briefly interline with the Streetcar from Gateway station to the CTC area would help reduce some of the problems associated with Gateway station's detachment from the blue line. This would also potentially expand the airport catchment area to Greensboro and beyond. Hopefully the small number of shared streetcar stops could be configured to accommodate both vehicle types.

I can't imagine that the FAA would pay for anything other than infrastructure on airport property. Anyone know how were they involved in the Minneapolis LRT system?

Edited by kermit
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What route would this mythical LRT likely take?

An LRT line could branch off the existing Blue Line at Carson, take Carson to the auxilary lane of I-277 between Carson and Clarkson to Wilkinson, then hop off Wilkinson past Billy Graham via Airport-owned land to Jerry's station. Wilkinson, and especially Carson, each have excess width that could be re-purposed as semi-exclusive surface-running tracks, or even the right-of-way to add tracks, if wanting to retain the existing number of travel lanes for motor vehicles.

Best of all in my mind, Carson and Clarkson provide existing structures leftover from Old Independence, plus underutilized on/off-ramps, which could be repurposed as LRT right-of-way to get around the I-77/277 interchange. That way, no expensive new structures outside of the Airport. There, the terminus could be single-tracked to save on structure.

To connect with the Southeast Corridor, the line would run on existing track Uptown between Carson and CTC, but then branch off at 5th to head to Independence via CPCC. That way, West and East Charlotte would function as one line, along with South and University. Where these two lines would overlap is where LYNX must travel at slower speeds, such that small headways, resulting from the overlapping frequencies, should work.

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^Since Wal-Mart is the only real destination between the Airport and Uptown along Wilkinson, I think following Freedom Drive and I-85 to the Airport may be a better option. Such alignment could stay on Clarkson to Freedom to Scott Futrell to Little Rock to the Terminal. Not only could you redevelop the Freedom Mall as TOD, you also then can place a station at East Morehead near Pinky's and Wesley Heights.

Edited by southslider
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^^^ I think that it would be better just to follow the current railroad alignment/ Wilkinson blvd.  It would likely be cheaper to just build it there.  I would estimate $300 million for total build-out.  Like I said before with diesel LRT vehicles like the River Line in NJ, it would cost less, as there is no need for electrification.

http://en.wikipedia....Walter_Rand.jpg

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Yeah I think a Diesel LRT with a stop at Ashley Rd/Wal-Mart area and then a stop right on Airport property. From there they would have to shuttle or put in an automated people mover to get you to the terminal.

So a hypothetical line would be: Gateway Station -> Ashley Rd -> Charlotte Airport

Of course the only thing you have to deal with is the railroad companies...which are notoriously slow and assinine to deal with and get an agreement to use their tracks.

That being said most people that use the current Airport Sprint route don't go to the Airport...most people get off/on at places along Wilkinson Blvd.

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^Well, if the West Corridor were to use the NS line parallel to Wilkinson, then the Southeast Corridor should use the CSX line parallel to Monroe Road. They could then still be interlined through Uptown, but via Gateway, not CTC.

But alas, that's really commuter rail, akin to the Lake Norman Red Line, with significantly less frequency than the current Sprinter bus service. Such service would be competing for space and scheduling with existing freight traffic on the NS and CSX lines.

Granted, commuter rail with diesel vehicles and existing freight track is cheaper, but it also has a lot less capacity and ridership. Hence, I still think a surface-running LRT within existing right-of-way (medians or inside lanes) on Wilkinson or Freedom Drive would ultimately build a more urban system able to move a lot more people than just Uptown commuters.

Edited by southslider
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Actually, I wasn't suggesting using the existing freight tracks to the airport, but building new tracks, and putting those new tracks beside the NS tracks, maybe a couple of yards from where the current tracks are.  As for diesel vehicles, those that I used as my example are still LRT vehicles, not commuter rail...They are approximately the same size as the Blue Line Cars, but each car has a diesel engine on board for locomotion rather than electrification.  Although I prefer electrified LRT trains, I think the diesel LRT vehicles would be just fine, and it would eliminate the need for overhead wiring.  I have read that electrification alone can be as much as 40% of the cost of a new LRT line.

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^But if you're going to the expense of building new tracks, the Wilkinson median seems cheaper. Many of the bridges over the freight line would have to be widened to accommodate new tracks, much like the Eastway bridge over the NS being widened for the BLE. Meanwhile, the Wilkinson median already has relatively good access management, such that trains could stay at-grade through these limited median openings, including Ashley, Remount and West Morehead. The highest volume thoroughfare crossing Wilkinson between Uptown and the Airport, Billy Graham, is already grade-separated. The end of the line within the Airport would require the most structure, but since the end of line, it could be single-tracked there to save on cost.

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^^^I personally don't care one way or another, I think either option would be good. I just thought the streetcar idea along Wilkinson was just a bad Idea considering the west corridor is a major corridor with many commuters, and it would probably not cost much more to implement since streetcar would require the destruction of the street in order to implement. Niether option stated would require the destruction of a road, and would keep the trains mostly out of traffic. It just seems like it would generate a lot more ridership without a whole lot more in terms of capital costs.

Good discussion...however, this has gotten way off topic, as we are discussing transit plans in an airport thread.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

US Airways will be adding non-stop service from CLT to Salt Lake City, UT (SLC) starting in March. The daily flight will use the Airbus A320. Glad to see CLT will regain a flight to this city. Delta flew non-stop from CLT to SLC before the economy tanked in 2008.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2011/11/07/us-airways-adds-routes-to-salt-lake.html

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  • 2 weeks later...

According to airliners.net and the US Airways website, CLT-FRA will be twice daily this summer. On the US website service is said to be provided by an A330-200 and an A330-300 for the two flights.

In addition to a plethora of Carribean, Latin American, and Canadian service, CLT will have:

CLT-LGW: A330-300

CLT-CDG: A330-200

CLT-FRA (2x): A330-300, A330-200

CLT-MUC (LH): A340-600

CLT-DUB: 757-200

CLT-FCO: A330-300

CLT-MAD: 767-200

CLT-GIG: 767-200

...I think all the above info is correct.

Edited by cltbwimob
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Potential American/US merger?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-29/united-continental-delta-air-may-gain-from-amr-s-bankruptcy.html

So, if this were to happen, would the new airline be American or US? Even though I think Charlotte would most likely remain a hub, I'd hate to trade Star Alliance for a OneWorld. Blah.

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I apologize if this has been answered in a previous post, but are there any plans to revamp the airport overlook? I ask because our overlook sort of seems like an afterthought, especially compared to other airport overlooks I've seen. A simple paving would go a long way in improving that gravel lot.

On a side note, has anyone visited the overlook when the large Luftshansa (Munich) flight lands? There is an older lady there who sort of puts on a show :) .

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