Optimist Park / Belmont Projects

[videtur quam contuor]

edit: this response is to the parking comments about Optimist Mill on previous page.

I was at Publix Sunday 1 pm and the underground lot had 4-5 open spaces, both levels combined. The store had not nearly that number of clients. A man in the elevator said Atherton people use it as a convenient parking option. I saw several parkers retuning to their cars with no groceries in hand by the time I departed. When there is a Publix/Atherton stop Publix will be required to have gated entry for their customers, imo.

Edited August 9, 2022 by tarhoosier

[KJHburg]

26 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

edit: this response is to the parking comments about Optimist Mill on previous page.

I was at Publix Sunday 1 pm and the underground lot had 4-5 open spaces, both levels combined. The store had not nearly that number of clients. A man in the elevator said Atherton people use it as a convenient parking option. I saw several parkers retuning to their cars with no groceries in hand by the time I departed. When there is a Publix/Atherton stop Publix will be required to have gated entry for their customers, imo.

they might have to go to a gate situation too with X hours of free parking with validation like Whole Foods,   Their most urban Publix stores I have seen have a gate in downtown Orlando and in downtown  Miami. 

as for rail to Optimist Hall it only makes sense if you live on the light rail line.  I can't imagine having catching a bus from across town then transferring to a train to get there.  That being said under 3 hours is what most people stay there except for the heavy drinkers who might have dinner there and stay for hours and hours.  

[CLT2014]

They disabled the comment section on Instagram for the parking post. In true car loving Charlotte form, people lost their mind... (Now ranting on other posts). A sad reminder of how few of us don't want Charlotte to be a suburban city.

Edited August 9, 2022 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

Here is the Ponce City Market parking rates in Atlanta huge food hall and entertainment destination.  

https://www.poncecitymarket.com/getting-here

I can park there cheaper for 24 hours than Optimist Hall just saying.  But no free parking at Ponce City Market at all. 

according to the massive amount of online comments there must be a lot of people working for hours on end in the Food Hall on their tables.  I have been there once for more than 3 hours and that was for an UP meetup! 

[JHart]

Before the parking announcement every post was full of comments about how there was never any parking available. If you want to turnover parking spots faster than you charge for parking, crazy concept. Optimist Hall is chock full of people everyday; if everyone who made a negative social media comment about this never visited again, it would still be full. You can park and ride at half of the lightrail stops anyways. 

[NYtoCLT]

The $18 feels like it is there just as a deterrent since if you are staying for over 3 hours you probably arent spending much money and just using it for parking or sitting on your laptop not buying anything.

[InSouthPark]

19 hours ago, KJHburg said:

they might have to go to a gate situation too with X hours of free parking with validation like Whole Foods,   Their most urban Publix stores I have seen have a gate in downtown Orlando and in downtown  Miami. 

as for rail to Optimist Hall it only makes sense if you live on the light rail line.  I can't imagine having catching a bus from across town then transferring to a train to get there.  That being said under 3 hours is what most people stay there except for the heavy drinkers who might have dinner there and stay for hours and hours.  

If you are having dinner then two+ hours of drinking...you shouldn't be driving anyways.    The $18 after 3 hours is pretty wild jump though.  Even though "most" stay under three hours...I know I have been there pretty darn close to 3 hours just to get lunch, grab a drink or two at Fonta Flora/Billy Sunday, then get dessert.  You can be damn sure I would either be watching my watch like a hawk or just skipping the "lets go find dessert".   If it was say $10 for 3-6hrs, sure I can see that.  $18 for 3 hours and 1 minute?   Nah...I find someplace else to go. 

[atlrvr]

Guessing that the adjacent apartments have lots of visitors using OP for free guest parking.

[RANYC]

Hilarious seeing all the reaction on social media.

I'm assuming the folks running this property are pros, intensely data-driven, and did their research.

I'm sure the abuses that were taking place were far costlier than the incremental benefit of occasional patrons who actually stay for >3 hours spending money the entire time.

I'm sure if you plot a per person dollars spent figure versus time spent at the Hall, the resulting graph plummets like a meteor.

As brutal as it sounds, if I'm running OH, I set the $18 figure to deter the abuses, and the $5 between 90 min and 180 min so that those who linger have the discretionary means to scoff at $5 if they're making a big deal of the time spent at OH on a given day.  All others are free to take transit, rideshare, cycles and scooters, or some combo thereof. 

[fortibus]

Put your finger on Trade & Tryon and draw a 1 - 1.5 mile circle out from that center.

That takes you to Optimist Hall, Wesley Heights, Atherton Mill, and Presbyterian Medical Center in all four directions.

This entire circle will continue becoming more expensive as it matures into a dense, multimodal urban environment.

Parking uptown already costs $20 so there really shouldn't be an expectation of free parking elsewhere.

If you want to drive everywhere, go live in the suburbs. Otherwise, live near where you work, eat, and play.

[CLTranspo]

2 minutes ago, fortibus said:

If you want to drive everywhere, go live in the suburbs. Otherwise, live near where you work, eat, and play.

Or expect to take transit or ride share! 

[KJHburg]

Speaking of nearby apartments found this today from Swinerton who is building the next phase of The Joinery right up the road from OH.   Did not realize it was a mass timber building which is a little different that standard framing.  Maybe I saw this rendering I can't remember on all these apartment midrises. 

https://swinerton.com/project/the-joinery-phase-2/

[B Randy]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

Hilarious seeing all the reaction on social media.

I'm assuming the folks running this property are pros, intensely data-driven, and did their research.

I'm sure the abuses that were taking place were far costlier than the incremental benefit of occasional patrons who actually stay for >3 hours spending money the entire time.

I'm sure if you plot a per person dollars spent figure versus time spent at the Hall, the resulting graph plummets like a meteor.

As brutal as it sounds, if I'm running OH, I set the $18 figure to deter the abuses, and the $5 between 90 min and 180 min so that those who linger have the discretionary means to scoff at $5 if they're making a big deal of the time spent at OH on a given day.  All others are free to take transit, rideshare, cycles and scooters, or some combo thereof. 

Social media definitely not the place for thoughtful or informed insight into development   

[Matthew.Brendan]

[Urban Cowboy]

4 hours ago, B Randy said:

Social media definitely not the place for thoughtful or informed insight into development   

Agreed...

jasonthomasclt "wishes they'd just be honest. Just say in an effort to generate more revenue." If we're being honest, how can someone self-described as an informed urbanist be against this move? Seems like it could encourage blue line ridership and is clearly aimed at preventing people from ordering a coffee and hogging a table for 3 hours. I see no problems with it.

Limiting comments limits knee jerk reactions from uninformed users who don't own businesses and don't have to think about revenue/access to their businesses. Parking is an issue there and this should help stimulate turnover and open up spots. FREE 90 minute parking to visit a food hall? Count me in. You mean I can't leave my car there for 7 hours for free?? I'm sure some savvy people were using the OH lots as park and rides for commuting into uptown. Did jasonthomasclt consider that? It's not all about greed...Why choose the path of bashing a local business and destination if you're in a position of "influence?"

[JRCLT]

Agreed...
jasonthomasclt "wishes they'd just be honest. Just say in an effort to generate more revenue." If we're being honest, how can someone self-described as an informed urbanist be against this move? Seems like it could encourage blue line ridership and is clearly aimed at preventing people from ordering a coffee and hogging a table for 3 hours. I see no problems with it.
Limiting comments limits knee jerk reactions from uninformed users who don't own businesses and don't have to think about revenue/access to their businesses. Parking is an issue there and this should help stimulate turnover and open up spots. FREE 90 minute parking to visit a food hall? Count me in. You mean I can't leave my car there for 7 hours for free?? I'm sure some savvy people were using the OH lots as park and rides for commuting into uptown. Did jasonthomasclt consider that? It's not all about greed...Why choose the path of bashing a local business and destination if you're in a position of "influence?"
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2022_08/image.thumb.png.8084cd3e3f414d2ad9041316a953d135.png

Truly. Honestly it really shouldn’t be a point of conjecture as to why OH imposed those parking fees. It’s not like they made it, like you said, paid on arrival. OH has a right to manage its operations and property in accordance to their needs as a business. whether that was for what they said it was or for revenue? It’s irrelevant. That comment was truly unnecessary and instigates an uncalled for response to a fair imposition of paid parking. The comment limitation is honestly nothing to shame upon. It is their platform and without question shouldn’t be judged for managing that platform as business as they see fit. Certainly they have no need to be apologetic about not wanting ill informed opinions on the matter and if limiting comments is the solution so be it. That post is an announcement not a feedback forum for what they want to do. That’s my take. I see no issues with these decisions. OH has no obligation to give extended free parking for hours on end to anyone not buying services which like what I’ve seen on here and logically, a majority is not spending >3 hours there and constantly spending. Those people who are would be taking up a space when another that would like to actually spend may not find one. Obviously it is likely this is the case and that is why they decided on the fares and times as such. Of course though I would not really know that’s the case but looking at the limited parking OH has it makes sense.

[Nathan2]

This all comes down to people not realizing that there is no such thing as free parking, the cost is added somewhere even when the parking is supposedly "free". The more places start charging for parking the better the outcome for the city. People need to start realizing that quick and easy parking is not normal and is a detriment to a livable city, Unfortunately the more giant parking structures we keep building the more it enforces peoples idea that parking is a right. Its funny as the city has a stated goal of reducing car usage by 50%. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Nathan2
change real to free parking

[15895]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:20 PM, KJHburg said:

they might have to go to a gate situation too with X hours of free parking with validation like Whole Foods,   Their most urban Publix stores I have seen have a gate in downtown Orlando and in downtown  Miami. 

as for rail to Optimist Hall it only makes sense if you live on the light rail line.  I can't imagine having catching a bus from across town then transferring to a train to get there.  That being said under 3 hours is what most people stay there except for the heavy drinkers who might have dinner there and stay for hours and hours.  

It's crazy people can't imagine taking mass transit to Optimist Hall.

 

[CLT2014]

I 100% think that charging to park is fair and should be done, but some people roll their eyes at the transit notion because the system isn't set up to be effective for local trips that aren't in a narrow corridor..... The vast majority of Charlotte doesn't live walking distance to a light rail station and our bus system continues to be operated poorly, have routes cut, and have extremely long headways between buses that just make it a last resort. 

If somebody lives off Commonwealth in Plaza Midwood..... it would take 40 minutes to get to Optimist Hall via public transit in Charlotte...... that's insane. That compares to just 9 minutes in a car. Now I DO think the convenience of that 9 minute drive in the car comes at a price.... including charged parking. 99% of people would gladly pay $5 to park versus spend 40 minutes on transit to go 2 miles. Once people are done complaining, we'll see this paid lot be full because people aren't going to give up their Toyota 4Runner or Jeep Wrangler for getting to Optimist. 

It will also be interesting to see how many people circle for free parking if they are planning to be at Optimist a while and try to street park in the residential areas on 16th, 17th, 18th, et.. across Parkwood.

Edited August 11, 2022 by CLT2014

[JHart]

10 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

 That compares to just 9 minutes in a car.
 

That is literally a <15 minute bike ride down protected bike lanes for 80% of it and will be 95% protected bike lanes once the ongoing Parkwood project is completed. It actually would be faster to bike by the time you park your car and walk in. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by JHart

[Madison Parkitect]

13 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

I 100% think that charging to park is fair and should be done, but some people roll their eyes at the transit notion because the system isn't set up to be effective for local trips that aren't in a narrow corridor..... The vast majority of Charlotte doesn't live walking distance to a light rail station and our bus system continues to be operated poorly, have routes cut, and have extremely long headways between buses that just make it a last resort. 

If somebody lives off Commonwealth in Plaza Midwood..... it would take 40 minutes to get to Optimist Hall via public transit in Charlotte...... that's insane. That compares to just 9 minutes in a car.

Another example of the problems with a hub-and-spoke system.

[Nathan2]

36 minutes ago, JHart said:

That is literally a <15 minute bike ride down protected bike lanes for 80% of it and will be 95% protected bike lanes once the ongoing Parkwood project is completed. It actually would be faster to bike by the time you park your car and walk in. 

That bike lane along Parkwood is barely usable. The lanes are not protected and the infrastructure that separates the lanes has been completely destroyed already. Not to mention you run a high risk of flatting as the lanes are completely filled with glass, metal, and other debris. This is the story with almost all of charlottes supposed bike lanes except the one mile that is separated by concrete. 

[JHart]

8 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

That bike lane along Parkwood is barely usable. The lanes are not protected and the infrastructure that separates the lanes has been completely destroyed already. Not to mention you run a high risk of flatting as the lanes are completely filled with glass, metal, and other debris. This is the story with almost all of charlottes supposed bike lanes except the one mile that is separated by concrete. 

They are dirty, but very far from unusable. If you're afraid to bike on Parkwood, there are plenty of other neighborhood routes you can take instead to go 2.5 miles away. 

[Nathan2]

2 minutes ago, JHart said:

They are dirty, but very far from unusable. If you're afraid to bike on Parkwood, there are plenty of other neighborhood routes you can take instead to go 2.5 miles away. 

Sure this is true. But the average person who doesn't bike around Charlotte is only going to bike places if there is easy, safe, and completely protected lanes. When the sole purpose of those bike lanes on the plaza and parkwood are to slow cars ( this is definitely not a bad thing) and not to get biker places safe they aren't going to be respected by the city or the user. 

[JHart]

4 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

But the average person who doesn't bike around Charlotte is only going to bike places if there is easy, safe, and completely protected lanes. 

That is literally the route down Plaza to Parkwood to Optimist Hall. There are tons of people who bike on the lanes everyday, less so on Parkwood because the lanes stop but the other portion of the project just recently went under construction.