Westin at Towncenter Progress

[vdogg]

They can't claim tallest in the state because buildings now have classifications.  There are tallest building in reference to inhabitable floors, tallest building structures with spires....... and so on.  If anything they can only claim to be the tallest building with a spire because the tower in Richmond is all floors, no spire.  It is a pure 449 feet.  Unless the inhabitable portion of the tower is more than 449' feet which would mean the spire could only be 60' than they could claim the tallest building in the state because it would be the tallest inhabitable and the tallest with spire.  Building classifications came out because in the race to build the tallest building people would just tack on these god awful spires to make them taller.  So now we have classifications.  Westin building needs to break 449' from ground to top of roof without spire to claim state's tallest.  That's why Northern virginia isn't worried about either of these towers because there tower is all floors. at almost 500'.  northern virginia will probably take the record from Richmond officially, that is if the tower ever gets built.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this is true then why do they still consider the Petronas towers taller than the Sears Tower. The petronas have a much lower occupied floor than the sears. The only reason they got worlds tallest was due to spire.

[urbanfan]

If this is true then why do they still consider the Petronas towers taller than the Sears Tower. The petronas have a much lower occupied floor than the sears. The only reason they got worlds tallest was due to spire.

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Petronas is not considered the tallest building with occupied floors, it was the tallest building structure including spire. Sears Tower held the tallest building title for occupied floors and roof top structure for a long time but now it has been eclipsed by Taipai 101. Which had a topping out ceremoney I believe some time in 2000.

Here is a link to that here

Scroll down and read about the information on the sears tower.

[ace707]

Well the very original plan, the one with crown instead of spire, put the tower at 32 stories and 400ft or approx. 12.5 per floor. Add 5 more floors and you should have a base structure height of about  462.5 ft. which would put it at the tallest inhabitable building still. Now that only leaves about 45.5ft for spire and i know the spire is taller than that so there is something not adding up here. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If we are to take the height like your calculation then that would mean that the spire has been scaled back to its original 50 ft. height and that is obviously not going to be the case (i hope its not anyway). Plus if the spire was only 50 ft. I'd say dont put one at all.

[vdogg]

Petronas is not considered the tallest building with occupied floors, it was the tallest building structure including spire.  Sears Tower held the tallest building title for occupied floors and roof top structure for a long time but now it has been eclipsed by Taipai 101. Which had a topping out ceremoney I believe some time in 2000.

Here is a link to that here

Scroll down and read about the information on the sears tower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I forgot all about Taipei. I knew there was another one (though burj dubai will put the smackdown on all of these in short order). The other question i have then is whether the emporis system of classification has been adopted the world over and accepted, or whether there are still entities that would consider Petronas taller than Sears period?

[vdogg]

If we are to take the height like your calculation then that would mean that the spire has been scaled back to its original 50 ft. height and that is obviously not going to be the case (i hope its not anyway). Plus if the spire was only 50 ft. I'd say dont put one at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well lets look at it another way. Say the spire is at least 100ft. Actual building height can only be 408ft. That would give us an 11.03 ft per floor average. Would that be more accurate?

[hoobo]

3 Things:

1) Isn't the Monroe Building in Richmond the tallest?

2) Yes, it is a parking garage, but it doesn't have to be a monstrosity. That garage is occupying most of that lots footprint. The tower and convention center only occupy a small portion of the lot. Dick's opens onto Indy while Chang's and Cheesecake open onto the Blvd. The TC needs to look outward not inward. Indy and the Blvd are major thoroughfares and no matter what they will divide the CBD, but that doesn't mean the TC has to be an enclosed entity like a shopping mall. Instead of a slender tower rising from a massive parking garage, I propose this: Move the tower to the NE corner of the lot and put the convention center component at the north central portion. Increase the garage to 8 stories and leave the SW corner of the lot empty. The SW corner would be the site of 3rd office tower. This tower would anchor that corner of TC providing increased foot traffic for shops and restaurants. It would also provide an entry way to the proposed City Park (or whatever it's called) development at HQ. The owners, developers, and the city need to work together to connect the developments at the four corners so that they do not grow as disconnected entities. That is a long second point, but that's why I hate that monsterous garage.

3) Traffic. Does the city have a plan? Constitution was supposed to connect with Bonney, but that never happened. Was it environmental reasons or economic ones (Indy was maxed out yet so the costs didn't make sense), I don't know? All I know is that there's a drainage pond at the end of Bendix in the office park off Bonney. The road would travel: Constitution to Bendix over 44 (I'll never call it 264) to Edwin. It looks like there's some empty land between the office park and the Clarion and there's a parking lot across 44 from that land so a road and overpass could still be built. To the west of Indy, Kellam/Euclid has to connect to either Alicia or Bonney (yes, there is another one...gotta love HR and its fun with names). Kellam would need to widened which is problematic since it runs through a neighborhood. An overpass to Bonney would require coordination with the Sandlers and their Cornerstone development. But there needs to be another connection to the south besides Indy, Whichduck, and Rosemont.

[rusthebuss]

The Granby will be a foot taller without the spire than the Monroe building.

[vdogg]

3 Things:

1)  Isn't the Monroe Building in Richmond the tallest?

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The Monroe is 449ft feet tall. Both Granby and Westin will beat it with spires at 450ft and 508ft repectively. What were debating right now is a) Whether Westin will have a higher occupied floor than Monroe or not and b) since it likely doesn't, can we claim it as states tallest since it is still 59ft taller than Monroe overall?

[rusthebuss]

The Monroe is 449ft feet tall. Both Granby and Westin will beat it with spires at 450ft and 508ft repectively. What were debating right now is a) Whether Westin will have a higher occupied floor than Monroe or not and B) since it likely doesn't, can we claim it as states tallest since it is still 59ft taller than Monroe overall?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The monroe is only 29 floors but it has a garage under it so that is what makes it tall.

[vdogg]

The Granby will be a foot taller without the spire than the Monroe building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think thats true because if thats the case then Granby would be taller than Westin with it's spire, which all sides have agreed is not the case. Total structure height including spire on Granby is 450ft (probably closer to 480). I doubt total structure height is 550ft for Granby. If so they would have made that distinction and Granby would have been given tallest in HR instead of the Westin.

[urbanvb]

In regards to traffic, at some point Constitution will be connected with Bonney thereby giving another way in and out of the TC. For now the city decided to wait onthe possible overpass from Constitution over to Holland Road. In my opinion Pembroke is not all that bad. Yes traffic gets backed up especially at peak times but that is to be expected. This is after all becoming one of the most densest places in VB. And as well, Pembroke is a connector providing connecting roads north, south, east and west of the city so yes there will be lot of cars traveling this road. I agree we do need another way in and out of the area but I don't see gridlock at all but instead mostly a short wait.

[urbanfan]

The monroe is only 29 floors but it has a garage under it so that is what makes it tall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but that is occupied floor so it counts. If westin and Granby were both built on the garage this wouldn't even be a valid argument. Granby would take the cake all the way. 8 or 9 floor garage, I can't remember, 31 floors, we would have broken the 40 foot mark. Man, why can't we put that thing on top of the garage.

Oh well, we can dream anyway.

[ace707]

I don't think thats true because if thats the case then Granby would be taller than Westin with it's spire, which all sides have agreed is not the case. Total structure height including spire on Granby is 450ft (probably closer to 480). I doubt total structure height is 550ft for Granby. If so they would have made that distinction and Granby would have been given tallest in HR instead of the Westin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Granby and Westin height thing is driving me crazy lol. Granby says 450 ft but there is so much debate about it height with a 100 ft. spire. I find it increasingly hard to find that tower at 350 ft and 31 stories compared to the Dominion Tower at 340 ft and 26 stories (and Dominion has approx. 13 ft. between floors) I find it increasingly hard to see Westin at 508 ft with 37 stories and a 100 ft spire. These two projects despite recent announcements continue to boggle the mind about the height and height distribution to parts of the building.

[sugoiben]

In regards to traffic, at some point Constitution will be connected with Bonney thereby giving another way in and out of the TC. For now the city decided to wait onthe possible overpass from Constitution over to Holland Road. In my opinion Pembroke is not all that bad. Yes traffic gets backed up especially at peak times but that is to be expected. This is after all becoming one of the most densest places in VB. And as well, Pembroke is a connector providing connecting roads north, south, east and west of the city so yes there will be lot of cars traveling this road. I agree we do need another way in and out of the area but I don't see gridlock at all but instead mostly a short wait.

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If only the light rail wasn't shouted down, there could be a nice busy TC stop to get in and out of there.

[vdogg]

Granby and Westin height thing is driving me crazy lol. Granby says 450 ft but there is so much debate about it height with a 100 ft. spire. I find it increasingly hard to find that tower at 350 ft and 31 stories compared to the Dominion Tower at 340 ft and 26 stories (and Dominion has approx. 13 ft. between floors) I find it increasingly hard to see Westin at 508 ft with 37 stories and a 100 ft spire. These two projects despite recent announcements continue to boggle the mind about the height and height distribution to parts of the building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alright, i give up. We'll know when the damn things built.

[vdogg]

If only the light rail wasn't shouted down, there could be a nice busy TC stop to get in and out of there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, you're a new one. Welcome to the forum.

[urbanvb]

If only the light rail wasn't shouted down, there could be a nice busy TC stop to get in and out of there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True but thankfully BRT is going foward and there should be a stop located within TC/Pembroke.

[sugoiben]

Wow, you're a new one. Welcome to the forum. 

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haha, been lurking about for a while.

Someone mentioned that the Pilot might know of some other development that will

beat this. Well what about those planned condos up in Rosslyn, forget the name. Waterview, Riverview.. something like that. They are supposed to be 484ft I believe. Completely spire free. So if the Westin's spire is anything more than 24ft. tall, which everyone seems to agree on, then it'll lose out to those towers at least.

[vdogg]

Granby and Westin height thing is driving me crazy lol. Granby says 450 ft but there is so much debate about it height with a 100 ft. spire. I find it increasingly hard to find that tower at 350 ft and 31 stories compared to the Dominion Tower at 340 ft and 26 stories (and Dominion has approx. 13 ft. between floors) I find it increasingly hard to see Westin at 508 ft with 37 stories and a 100 ft spire. These two projects despite recent announcements continue to boggle the mind about the height and height distribution to parts of the building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, at this point i don't think I care anymore. We can all agree on one simple thing, it's tall . Both of these buildings will be taller than anything we have so i'm thankful for that. I marvel at the debate were having in this thread today because no more than a year ago, a debate like this wouldn't have been possible. "Skyscraper? Whats that? I've never heard such language used in HR"

[johnhowell]

The dominion tower is roughly 13 feet for every story. 26 floors at 340ft. Guess what, at 37 floors and 508ft that's also rougly 13.7 feet for every story. I have to believe that doesn't include the spire.

[mistermetaj]

haha, been lurking about for a while. 

Someone mentioned that the Pilot might know of some other development that will

beat this.  Well what about those planned condos up in Rosslyn, forget the name.  Waterview, Riverview.. something like that.  They are supposed to be 484ft I believe.  Completely spire free.  So if the Westin's spire is anything more than 24ft. tall, which everyone seems to agree on, then it'll lose out to those towers at least.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those buildings wont be that tall if DC has anything to say about it though. They have been trying to stop this from happening since it began.

[sugoiben]

The dominion tower is roughly 13 feet for every story.  26 floors at 340ft.  Guess what, at 37 floors and 508ft that's also rougly 13.7 feet for every story.  I have to believe that doesn't include the spire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, so the building is 508 then by itself. And from the renderings it looks like the spire is at least another 50, if not 90 more feet on top of that. Might be something like... this maybe:

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=5091

Tallest suburban buildings in the country? Wonder would westin be able to claim that title too. VB is still suburban more or less....kinda.

[urbanfan]

The dominion tower is roughly 13 feet for every story.  26 floors at 340ft.  Guess what, at 37 floors and 508ft that's also rougly 13.7 feet for every story.  I have to believe that doesn't include the spire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Earlier in this discussion, much earlier, I explained why the building will not have 13' floors. Hotels have no duct work to run for utilities other than electrical which can be run in walls. Therefore all of the overhead room typically needed for this will not be there. Typical Hotel construction is at 10' - 11' per floor. That is why the Westin can not be compared to a typical steel office structure. Or a residential structure made of steel.

[johnhowell]

I just emailed one of the authors that did the story on the Westin for specifics on the height. Not sure if I'll get a response but I'll let you know if I find anything out.

[johnhowell]

Earlier in this discussion, much earlier, I explained why the building will not have 13' floors.  Hotels have no duct work to run for utilities other than electrical which can be run in walls.  Therefore all of the overhead room typically needed for this will not be there.  Typical Hotel construction is at 10' - 11' per floor.  That is why the Westin can not be compared to a typical steel office structure.  Or a residential structure made of steel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Norfolk Marriot is 12.35ft per floor.