VCU Developments

[creativeclass]

Although the window air units make this building quite unattractive, the West Hospital fills in the the eastern part of the skyline quite well. However, I can understand why it needs to be replaced. Better facilities will equate to more advanced R&D, an educated population and more economic benefits for Richmond and the surrounding area. I would hate to see Richmond lose out on bio-tech and bio-medical potentials, especially since these are some the very few indusrties in the U.S. that are thriving.

Shak, no one disputes VCU's continuing need for world-class facilities. What's at issue is whether new world-class labs and classrooms MUST replace the West or can be constructed nearby, and whether West can be adapted to other uses in an economic manner. Also at issue is whether these important decisions should be made solely by VCU administrators or whether the general public has a legitimate interest in saving a landmark building, as VCU is a state-supported school. In the past, Richmonders have been quite content to let a few powerful individuals decide things; the charette process and Master Plan discussions have really signaled a change in the way business is conducted in River City.

[D_C]

Shak, no one disputes VCU's continuing need for world-class facilities. What's at issue is whether new world-class labs and classrooms MUST replace the West or can be constructed nearby, and whether West can be adapted to other uses in an economic manner. Also at issue is whether these important decisions should be made solely by VCU administrators or whether the general public has a legitimate interest in saving a landmark building, as VCU is a state-supported school. In the past, Richmonders have been quite content to let a few powerful individuals decide things; the charette process and Master Plan discussions have really signaled a change in the way business is conducted in River City.

So maybe the city should come up with their own "plan of redevelopment" for this monument, like the desired swap for the public safety building property, and put the matter on the ballot for the residents to decide. Seriously. I agree that "the people" should weigh the pro's and con's and have some say in the future of our city. I know that this will never happen, but it sounds good.

I guess we could look at it from this standpoint though; "the people" have already spoken during the downtown master planning sessions, informational meetings recently, and can always voice their concerns to their council people. We have already spoken to this issue.

[Shakman]

Shak, no one disputes VCU's continuing need for world-class facilities. What's at issue is whether new world-class labs and classrooms MUST replace the West or can be constructed nearby, and whether West can be adapted to other uses in an economic manner. Also at issue is whether these important decisions should be made solely by VCU administrators or whether the general public has a legitimate interest in saving a landmark building, as VCU is a state-supported school. In the past, Richmonders have been quite content to let a few powerful individuals decide things; the charette process and Master Plan discussions have really signaled a change in the way business is conducted in River City.

I understand the arguement and respect it. I personally could see this structure being developed into residential units geared towards med students. At the same time I can understand VCU's reasoning due to this property's strategic location for lab space and its continuous expansion of its medical program (surrounded by the Main Hospital and other lab spaces). If done right, this building could add to the up coming vibrant Broad Street corridor.

The West Hospital is not the only VCU property that has been impacted by expansion. The North Hospital is also up for demo, the Confederate White House has been over shadowed by highrises and the former Nursing School is gone. I am not trying to sound ignorant but what have preservationist done in being proactive to save structures they deam as historic? Why is it that voices are heard when after plans are made for demolition and /or alteration? It maybe me, but it seems like there has never been any proactive approach to saving buildings.

(I am sure some interesting response(es) will be coming my way )

[majors2410]

What i dont understand is why no one said a word. When the city tore down a whole block across from the convention center for UGLY SURFACE PARKING. A whole block. But everytime VCU does something the whiners are everywhere. VCU just did a great job of reuse of an old structure for the Brnad Center but no compliments at all. I worked at VDOT for many years and anybody that thinks that tearing that nursing building down was anything but an improvement is crazy. That building should have been torn down years ago.

Stop and think a little what would downtown be without VCU? Not much.

[wrldcoupe4]

I think the new Brand Center is fascinating and I've only heard of compliments... much better than most of VCU's incredibly bland architecture.

The whole "if you want to preserve West Hospital then you must hate VCU and not appreciate what it has done for this town" spiel gets old... Those VCU officials at the downtown master plan meeting alluded to it several times and even said (paraphrased): "you know... there was a medical school in downtown Denver that LEFT the city because they weren't allowed to grow enough to compete internationally for talent. They spent over a billion dollars literally moving the medical campus..." As if to say if an attempt was made to find a compromising solution on West Hospital VCU might hop out to the suburbs??? Ridiculous. And the fact that any suggestion as to a compromise made at the meeting was scoffed at by chuckling VCU officials was disappointing at best...

Everyone in this town respects the internationally renowned programs at VCU and you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone that wants VCU Medical to slip into mediocrity because of dated facilities that can't attract the best and brightest. That's not to say that a compromise can't be struck that preserves the West Hospital for another use (housing for students literally on campus would be a great re-use) while at the same time allows VCU to build the most state of the art facilities around. I'm still in the dark as to why the vacant lot and Children's Pavilion in the block bound by Broad, 10th, 11th, and Marshall could not be a worthy alternative. Could some sort of co-location be formulated where the Children's Pavilion would gain a new home in the same structure (it was to be demolished anyways for a new Children's Hospital and Parking deck that never materialized) that would house a state of the art Medical Sciences program? It would certainly act as a much better western gateway to the medical campus along Broad than hideous Sanger Hall.

Edited February 22, 2008 by wrldcoupe4

[NYCJSW]

Sorry, but West Hospital should be torn down. What is so great about that building anyway? Besides the fact that it is just old? Have you been in the building? It is not very useful and can't be used by the hospital. You can't have housing that close to the hospital and the space is needed for expansion. To me this is a total nonissue. If anyone drove down Broad Street would they even notice West Hospital? The building is not that unique and if the city wants to think big they should tear it down and build something better!

[wrldcoupe4]

First, I agree it can't really be retrofitted to work as a modern medical environment... I made the suggestion of housing. Why can you not have housing targeting medical students on a medical college campus?

[Henry]

Sorry, but West Hospital should not be torn down. At least not until all alternatives are explored. It is one of three outstanding art deco buildings in the city (M and R and the CNB building are the others). And anybody who drives down Broad Street can't help but notice this landmark...It has dominated that part of the skyline for years. I like Cuope's idea about the former Children's Hospital idea as well as the idea of placing it where the Public Safety building. Keeping West as student housing plus building a hospital will increase the density of the area.

[NYCJSW]

"I made the suggestion of housing. Why can you not have housing targeting medical students on a medical college campus?"

Medical students are not like freshmen entering undergrad. Very few medical students would want to live on campus in a dorm type facility. Some medical students are married and already have families. The dorm facilities for the entire MCV campus are probably smaller than West Hospital. These dorms are also used to house undergrads.

"And anybody who drives down Broad Street can't help but notice this landmark...It has dominated that part of the skyline for years."

That is just not accurate. If you bring someone to Richmond from out of town and take them all around Richmond, West Hospital will not be mentioned. VCU and their new buildings are far more likely to get praise. West Hospital does not dominate the skyline of Richmond. If anything it is seen as a dumpy building in need of being replaced. Go to the MCV campus and ask people what the think of West Hospital. Too bad there is a vocal group in Richmond that does not want change and appears to have not been outside of Richmond to know what is really worth saving. Why else would someone think West Hospital is such a valuable building? The downtown train station is clearly in the must save category and is unique. Sorry, but West Hospital has to go and is hurting the growth of MCV/Richmond.

[creativeclass]

I am not trying to sound ignorant but what have preservationist done in being proactive to save structures they deam as historic? Why is it that voices are heard when after plans are made for demolition and /or alteration? It maybe me, but it seems like there has never been any proactive approach to saving buildings.

(I am sure some interesting response(es) will be coming my way )

As one of the "whiners" who has opposed demolition of West Hospital since 2004, I suggest you start here to understand that oppositon to demolition didn't just materialize last week: Downtown's Demolition Blitzkreig!

But also realize that VCU anticipated possible plans to save the West long ago, and acted proactively to mute and muzzle the potential opposition. By the early 90s, Dr. Trani was concerned that because West Hospital was eligible for individual listing on the Virginia Landmarks Register by the State Review Board (determined at its June 1986 meeting), and VCU might not be able to remake the MCV campus with the widest possible latitude. So Trani and the Department of Historic Resources entered into a Memorandum of Agreement in March 1992 which stated that DHR would not initiate efforts to nominate West Hospital, and other eligible building on the MCV campus, to the Register. The stated reasoning was that MCV / VCU buildings were "unsuitable for renovation or rehabilitation for use as wet laboratory and related instructional, administrative, support facilities, and patient care facilities."

On this basis, DHR and MCV / VCU entered into the agreement which basically gives the college carte blanche to execute its plans.

The agreement was executed in a different era. In the 90s, VCU could have bulldozed everything and constructed whatever it wanted. After all, city residents were used to being told what was best for them. Who cares that West was "the crowning monument of a complex of buildings" (according to Ed Slipek) who goies on to describe West as "perfectly detailed, it is polite and visually rewarding from the sidewalk level and packs tremendous wallop when seen from afar."

Richmond residents, via the charette / Master Plan discussion process, have experienced an awakening. No longer will we uncritically accept the decisions made by an elite few. Let's discuss options before making an unrevocable decision!

[wrldcoupe4]

"I made the suggestion of housing. Why can you not have housing targeting medical students on a medical college campus?"

Medical students are not like freshmen entering undergrad. Very few medical students would want to live on campus in a dorm type facility. Some medical students are married and already have families. The dorm facilities for the entire MCV campus are probably smaller than West Hospital. These dorms are also used to house undergrads.

Too bad there is a vocal group in Richmond that does not want change and appears to have not been outside of Richmond to know what is really worth saving. Why else would someone think West Hospital is such a valuable building? The downtown train station is clearly in the must save category and is unique. Sorry, but West Hospital has to go and is hurting the growth of MCV/Richmond.

Private sector redevelopment of West Hospital into market rate apartments targeting medical students/professionals given that VCU Medical Center is all around the building ... I wasn't even thinking about dorms. Maybe we could even have a building in that part of town that actually contributes to the city's tax base! VCU could use the proceeds of the sale and the money saved by not paying for demo to invest in facility/technology upgrades. A new structure could be built on an empty surface lot nearby.

I encourage change in our community, have spent considerable time outside of Richmond and overseas, and I still think it's a building worthy to be saved... though blanket assumptions of people are fun! What I find amazing is that anytime a compromise is suggested (like I did above or the many others thrown out there), the idea is just steamrolled over, the person written off as unsupportive of change, small minded, anti-VCU. Richmond has been able to retain a great deal of its unique urban character by preserving structures like tobacco warehouses, outdated office buildings, rowhouses, and filling them with uses for which they weren't originally built.

It just seems incredibly hard to believe that VCU's success or failure as an international center for medicine and the growth of our city hinge on one building remaining when there are many more empty lots and less memorable buildings all around which could be used to take VCU to that next level.

[NYCJSW]

"What I find amazing is that anytime a compromise is suggested (like I did above or the many others thrown out there), the idea is just steamrolled over, the person written off as unsupportive of change"

Ok, so for a compromise why don't we tear down West Hospital but as you suggest VCU will build some type of housing facility on an empty parking lot for professionals. Oh, you mean all your "compromises" only mean VCU compromises and West Hospital remains standing. The building you want to keep is right in center of the MCV campus. I'm not even sure how well it would work as a residential unit. Plus, don't we have lots of new residential/condo units downtown?

"It just seems incredibly hard to believe that VCU's success or failure as an international center for medicine and the growth of our city hinge on one building remaining when there are many more empty lots and less memorable buildings all around which could be used to take VCU to that next level."

What a lot of other people find equally hard to believe is why some feel this West Hospital is so important. I think there are some people who have chosen to fight this fight not for saving West Hospital but for trying to stick it to VCU. That may not be everyone but there clearly is a history of people in Richmond picking fights with VCU over what many would consider petty reasons.

"The agreement was executed in a different era. In the 90s, VCU could have bulldozed everything and constructed whatever it wanted. After all, city residents were used to being told what was best for them."

Lets face it. VCU has made this area what it is today and I feel strongly that they should have far and away the most input on what happens to West Hospital. Look at both campuses compared to 20 years ago and it is incredible how far these areas have come! You can thank VCU for it.

Edited February 23, 2008 by NYCJSW

[creativeclass]

It just seems incredibly hard to believe that VCU's success or failure as an international center for medicine and the growth of our city hinge on one building remaining when there are many more empty lots and less memorable buildings all around which could be used to take VCU to that next level.

wrldcoupe4, you're right on target. West Hospital is an asset to the VCU community, and it could continue to be with just a minimum of imagination. Let me also say that as a VCU graduate, and with a famiily member currently attending VCU, that I'm proud of its accomplishments. I'm also a fan of the Brand Center. But at the same time, why can't I hold VCU to an even higher standard when it comes to listening to the community and encouraging positive change?

[creativeclass]

"The agreement was executed in a different era. In the 90s, VCU could have bulldozed everything and constructed whatever it wanted. After all, city residents were used to being told what was best for them."

Lets face it. VCU has made this area what it is today and I feel strongly that they should have far and away the most input on what happens to West Hospital. Look at both campuses compared to 20 years ago and it incredible how far these areas have come! You can thank VCU for it.

So because VCU has been a force for positive change, that justifies giving them a pass on any scrutiny of decisions that affect the community?

[NYCJSW]

"So because VCU has been a force for positive change, that justifies giving them a pass on any scrutiny of decisions that affect the community?"

To some degree, yes. We are not saying that VCU should be allowed to tear down vibrant neighborhoods just because they want to. What we are saying is VCU should be allowed to tear down a building they own, that is not usefull, that would better serve the future of the hospital and the city if were were torn down. The other side is claiming - keep the building up, it is an art deco building that is somewhat unique.

As I wrote earlier. If you brought 100 people to Richmond and took them for a tour all around the city, I doubt anyone would remember West Hospital. If your tour included a few hours on the MCV campus I'm sure most of the people would have a negative view of West Hospital. Have you been in there to see how nonfuctional it really is?

[D_C]

Not that I am a supporter of tearing this building down, but I would like to say that I feel the historic significance of this structure has already been compromised with the destruction of its sister building; old Cabaniss Hall (old school of nursing building) that was directly to the east of the West Hospital. The similar style of construction, the identical brick, the general appearance. So, clearly, the assault is already well under way.

I would also like to know whether this building has always been VCU property. Was this building initially constructed by VCU as a hospital or was it something else first? If it has always been VCU property, then I would have to respect the wishes of an individual property owner, as I abhor the recent supreme court ruling giving the go-ahead to private developers to use emminent domain to condemn property for the good of the tax base (community at large). This ruling reminds me of something from the U.S.S.R. days. VCU should have every right to do with their property what they want, even if this building is as historic as the Empire State Building.

I have been inside of this building, although it has been many years. From what I can remember, it was pretty neat. Alot of 1930's style iron, marble and tile. This building is also significant in its shape. Not many buildings that are not churches, are built in the shape of a cross. I remember just about every floor having a circular information desk in the middle of the building, a style that continues to be used today.

[TBurban]

Knock down West Hospital, rebuild it using the same design with modernized facade accompanied with the brand new inside. The design is awesome, all that needs to be done is modernization. Forgive my ignorance if something like this has already been posted, just my two cents.

[NYCJSW]

"Knock down West Hospital, rebuild it using the same design with modernized facade accompanied with the brand new inside. The design is awesome, all that needs to be done is modernization. Forgive my ignorance if something like this has already been posted, just my two cents."

I don't know. The constuction cost would be a bit more. But I guess that is a good compromise that would make both sides happy.

[creativeclass]

"Knock down West Hospital, rebuild it using the same design with modernized facade accompanied with the brand new inside. The design is awesome, all that needs to be done is modernization. Forgive my ignorance if something like this has already been posted, just my two cents."

I don't know. The constuction cost would be a bit more. But I guess that is a good compromise that would make both sides happy.

You've got to be joking.

[NYCJSW]

"You've got to be joking."

Ok, so I guess the only "compromise" you are looking for is if VCU keeps West Hospital? Your side of the debate keeps talking about how VCU should compromise and how they should be willing to do so. Ok, well the poster offered up a compromise and you seem to reject it. It seems like your side is unwilling to compromise!

[wrldcoupe4]

First, an FYI: line by line rebuttal posts using multiple quotes are not permitted at UP. Don't want to see anyone get suspended...

In the end, VCU can do whatever it feels like with regards to West Hospital. The city does not have authority to do anything to stop it, and those who hope to see it preserved have their opinions trivialized by others as if they are asking the impossible. I respect the rights of a property owner, though in this case the property owner is an agency of the Commonwealth... perhaps the tax-paying, public university supporting citizens deserve at least some kind of input?

When I said compromise... let's step back and look at what both sides want:

Preservationists would like to see West Hospital preserved, as the wrecking ball has been pretty busy in that part of downtown recently. This is a worthy cause given the role the building played in the local community

VCU would like to build a new, world-class, state of the art Medical Sciences school to compete for the best and brightest, attracting world renowned faculty and top flight students. This is a something I wholeheartedly support... From improved regional healthcare to increased research programs to boosting the biosciences industry in our region, this would be something welcome with open arms.

So, why can't we please both competing interests? What is wrong with saving West Hospital, the city giving land to VCU, and building this new Medical Sciences program at a different location nearby such as a surface lot? Why is it absolutely necessary for West Hospital to fall for VCU to realize this great vision? Why won't VCU even consider building a beautiful western gateway to their medical campus along Broad between 10th and 11th streets?

[Cadeho]

The West Hospital is an Art Deco gem. Whatever VCU would put in its place would not add to the skyline and would not be a landmark. People aren't upset not just because it's old. It's because it's a landmark and it is one of two Art Deco skyscrapers in this city. Both have character and nothing VCU would or could construct would come close to comparing to their brilliance. Need proof? Look at the new tower they built.

This building did dominate the skyline from the time it was built until at least the 80s when other skyscrapers were built. This building adds to the skyline and is the only non-flat-top building in our skyline. NYCJSW, you obviously have not looked at our skyline from the east and north where you can see how it differs from the group of rectangles. From I-95 and Mayo's Bridge, the West Hospital is very prominent and imagine seeing it when I was little with the rotating light acting not only as a beacon for helicopters, but I knew I was home in Richmond when I saw it from a distance northbound on 95. That light can be restored and so can this building. VCU is not a poor school and since it's state owned property, I DO NOT MIND MY STATE TAXES USED TO RESTORE THIS BUILDING. But if VCU must demolish, it must replace it with something that would equally enhance vistas such as those along 14th St, CHurch Hill, and Chestnut Hill.

A lot of the pics I've taken that I'd like to share I'll have to find and upload, but I've found enough.

majors2410, the city did not demolish a whole block... it was a half block. It was lamented since those were old buildings and teeth were knocked out of Broad Street's smile in favor of a lot. However, small buildings do not compare to this one large building. Those buildings on Broad were not a part of the skyline and were not landmarks. Think of the differences.

Shakman, the demolition of the North Hospital won't cause a stir as it is not a historic landmark. We'd be getting rid of another example of horrible 1960s architecture and the building I've heard would replace it would be a welcome change to the skyline, a cylindrical building, correct me if I'm mistaken.

The building replacing the old Nursing School is actually an architectural surprise for VCU. If only their architects could come up with a grand building worthy of replacing the West Hospital is efforts to save it come to naught. Instead we'd have a giant box and any vistas capping the top of the hill will be very very very bland. I'd pick the pyramidal roof and Art Deco lines of the West Hospital over what's planned. Remember?

[wrldcoupe4]

Funny this was mentioned:

But everytime VCU does something the whiners are everywhere. VCU just did a great job of reuse of an old structure for the Brnad Center but no compliments at all.

...because this is my post from only a few days ago

The new VCU brandcenter looks great!

http://www.brandcenter.vcu.edu/

[Cadeho]

"So because VCU has been a force for positive change, that justifies giving them a pass on any scrutiny of decisions that affect the community?"

To some degree, yes. We are not saying that VCU should be allowed to tear down vibrant neighborhoods just because they want to. What we are saying is VCU should be allowed to tear down a building they own, that is not usefull, that would better serve the future of the hospital and the city if were were torn down. The other side is claiming - keep the building up, it is an art deco building that is somewhat unique.

As I wrote earlier. If you brought 100 people to Richmond and took them for a tour all around the city, I doubt anyone would remember West Hospital. If your tour included a few hours on the MCV campus I'm sure most of the people would have a negative view of West Hospital. Have you been in there to see how nonfuctional it really is?

I doubt if you took 100 visitors on a tour of Richmond they'd remember any individual skyscraper, but that doesn't help your argument against the building. How would they after a tour come to a negative conclsuion that the building is useless without that thought implanted from their tourguide. If they have any aesthetic sense, they'd want a compromise as well. We all realize the hospital has to grow and maintain and improve its edge but it can not show wreckless regard to its historic landmarks.

[creativeclass]

Cadeho, excellent work. The photos illustrate nicely why West is significant to the cityscape.

And wrldcoupe is right - legally, VCU can do whatever it wants with West. And in an earlier era it would just excute its plans, demolish the building, and put whatever bland box it wanted in its place. That could still happen, but VCU must realize that its local reputation will take a hit if it does not explain why the only feasible location for the new facility is on the site of West, and why West could not be adapted to other uses that would be useful to VCU - particularly housing.