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wrldcoupe4

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It seems like the common compromise that keeps getting brought up is building a new building with similar rooftop features as West Hospital. To me this is a good idea and would be a nice tribute to West Hospital. I think it would also serve as a tribute to those who fought to have West Hospital saved.

A common compromise would be re-using the exact same roof. Not some knock-off similarity. I am talking about brining in a chinook helicopter or a team of mohawk skywalkers to disassemble it, but re-using the exact same roof, complete with rotating red light.

I am just curious, who owns the Empire State Building. What if some group who were tight with the ownership determined that "that ugly thing has been cluttering up the skyline for decades and needs to be replaced with something else". I have walked by it several times and not even known it was there. I thought about that when it was said about this building being invisible to visitors. No joke. I walked right past it and never realized that it was there. So let's put things in comparison a bit here before we go erasing our history. Have a little compassion. After all, it IS the way we do things down here.

Don't be confused by the gentle nature of a Richmonder. Not all of us have been cooped-up here forever and I would venture a guess that quite a few of us have lived in several different places. I was born here, moved to Oklahoma, Albany, Boulder and Eugene. I have travelled to just about every major city in the U.S., some several times. (Yeah, NYC is on my frequent visit list). I came back. It happens. With that being said, sure, Richmond is not the best place that I have been, but it is very unique and this building that VCU seems so ready to scrap, is worth giving a second, third, maybe even fourth thought about. They already did a great injustice to the architectural significance by destroying its sister building to the east. I love VCU. I love its energy, its drive to beautify parts of this city that need it. I don't think that all of their architecture is ugly. I think that most of it is very cool. Nice, clean lines and crisp finish with detail. But I don't think that they will EVER come close to replicating this building. It is too unique and too much a part of our city.

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The previous poster claimed that the VCU/Richmond relationship is a unique one and implied that this type of thing would only occur in Richmond.

I wrote and implied no such thing.....this is a power play, Spin Doctor, pure and simple; nothing unique about that - I've seen it happen in other cities I've lived in (particularly Washington DC). By the way, thanks for posting the link to the article on VCU in Style Weekly. Did you know that the author, Ed Slipek, wrote a terrific appreciation of West in the same publication several years ago?

D_C, don't get too excited about any promises regarding a new building topped with a similar roofline. VCU may promise to do that, but in the end, all they're interested in is demolishing West. And I guarantee you that the replacement building will not be half as distinguished.

A new Disneyfied rooftop on West's replacement would be a "tribute to those who fought to have West Hospital saved"? Gee, thanks but no thanks.

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Jumping topic for a second here.....

VCU men's basketball was excellent last night!! This team is very good and exciting to watch. When Maynor bopped the ball off of the defender's head who was in his face, it reminded me of the Harlem Globetrotters. Maynor's drive to the hoop has always been sweet. He can turn on the speed at the drop of a dime and still maintain excellent ball control. His shots are a lot better this year too. I didn't really care for his technical foul he drew as he bumped a ref last night though. I am sure he had his reason, as the ref was making some crappy calls, but he has to maintain composure at all times as he is the team's go-to-guy. Sanders had more than a couple of blocks last night and some great slams. Sanders plays some very hard ball and this guy is only a freshman. Schuler didn't disappoint with a few nice 3-pointers. It has been great watching him this year. When Fameni gets the ball within a step of the basket, you better get out of his way. His move to the basket is like watching a train. VCU has some extreme speed, and coach Grant is an excellent coach. Rodriguez is one super-fast guy. His speed and quickness make him a threat to anyone attempting to dribble the ball.

Overall, there have been some excellent home games this year. Well worth the trip and tickets. Crowd participation is greater than I can ever remember and attendance is also greater than ever before. I would say that coach Grant has made a significant improvement of this program and I hope that he stays around for a while.

Next up.........VCU baseball.......THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN!!

Fri, Feb 29 Seton Hall University - Richmond, Va. 3:00 p.m.

Sat, Mar 01 Bucknell University (DH) - Richmond, Va. 1:00 p.m.

Sun, Mar 02 Seton Hall University - Richmond, Va. 1:00 p.m.

Tue, Mar 04 Liberty University - Richmond, Va. 3:00 p.m.

Wed, Mar 05 East Carolina University - Richmond, Va. 3:00 p.m.

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Do you really think other cities that have such an important player like VCU, who has done so much for the city, would stop them from knocking down a buidling they own?

Spin Doctor, this line of reasoning has justified a sordid parade of bad behavior, not just from institutions but from politicians, both local and national (and yes, even in NYC). "But they've done so much for this city.....let's give them a pass to do whatever they want. They deserve it!! After all, without [insert name of institution or politician here], downtown would be Bosnia." And this is how the powerful become arrogant and unresponsive to those that they serve.

Edited by creativeclass
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"But they've done so much for this city.....let's give them a pass to do whatever they want. They deserve it!! After all, without [insert name of institution or politician here], downtown would be Bosnia." But they've done so much for this city.....let's give them a pass to do whatever they want. They deserve it!! After all, without [insert name of institution or politician here], downtown would be Bosnia." And this is how the powerful become arrogant and unresponsive to those that they serve.

. "

Do you want me to throw you a flotation device? You are clearly headed off the deep end. Well, remember in this case there are very few people that care about West Hospital being saved. Most people in the region would favor a strong MCV with an aggressive Hospital expansion that brings lots of good jobs to the area. Actually, I was involved in the process when VCU had yet to expand - when the engineering school was just talk and was thought to be going at the corner of Broad and Belvidere. Do you even remember how bad that part of Broad Street was? The entire Monroe Park campus area has been transformed as well as Broad Street. You have a freakin Starbucks, Cold Stone and a new Krogers on Broad Street! Believe me, the city was such a little player in all this action - Trani/VCU did 99.9 % of it. Now VCU is doing the same thing to the area just east of Belvidere. Also, look at the MCV campus! Not only all the buidlings VCU built but also the contruction built because of VCU. The biomedical center and the Phillip Morris expansion downtown.

You want to mock everything VCU has done? Well you also want the area to give a select few (those who want to save West Hospital) a very strong voice in the process. Your blanket statement "and this is how the powerful become arrogant and unresponsive to those that they serve" might get better play at the Village Cafe.

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VCU has clearly explained why the alternatives are not useful/practical? This is news to me. Could you link to the article or VCU press release or where ever else VCU has elaborated on this?

And that was a great, very thorough article (as usual) from Ed Slipek.

NYCJSW -

this was probably missed as it was the last entry on the previous page. It was in reference to a statement that the reasons behind not using the alternatives had been clearly explained.... and a compliment to the Style Article on the Monroe Park Campus expansion.

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Reading your quote I was a bit confused. Perhaps because you were taking bits of my post and inserting VCU where I had the word "we".

Here is my original statement:

"Just as the right for VCU to tear down West Hospital has been established, I feel the reasoning for VCU to want to tear down West Hospital has also been established. We have already explained why alternatives are not as useful or practical. Some may not buy into this reasoning but it has been given over and over."

I never wrote VCU has already explained..... They don't have to, shouldn't and probably won't crawl into the mud on this issue. When I wrote we, I meant those in favor of building a new building on the West Hospital site. Why must you hear the same thing from VCU when it is clear why they don't want alternatives?

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A public entity/agency of the state/public university which receives our tax dollars isn't obligated to at least give an explanation (like the state did with the 8th St office building) of why the other sites just won't work?

Excuse my intrusion, but if some of the comments from readers of the following news story won't exxplain VCU's need to replace the building, it's not likely anything will. It's the old theory -- locartion, location, location!

Good luck, NYC, and thanx to D C for posting this at RCW:

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-co...02-21-0203.html

Now, back to hibernation.

Apparently, you will have to go to New Development at RCW to see the intelligent (some of them, anyway) Readers comments to this Feb. 21st inRich story. They didn't carry-over from D C's posting.

Edited by burt
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People and VCU act as if people are asking them to stay in the building and use it as a hospital. I've never read anyone say they must stay there. No one argues against having VCU being one of the best hospitals in the nation AND no one argues the great things it has done along Broad, but while VCU has rebuilt and rejuvenated areas of the city, aside from the engineering building and the new buildings east of Belvidere, they've thrown up forgettable buildings. VCU has yet to acknowledge what the building itself brings to the city's landscape and how to best capture the same contribution to the streetscape and skyline and get what they need.

I am not in favor of saving the West Hospital because it's old. I enjoy how it greets me at the top of Broad Street's hill. I enjoy the details in the design of the building. Maybe I like art. Everything inside as reported is a mess, but it doesn't have to be a hospital. It doesn't have to be a VCU building. If preserved it can be something else and for some reason that idea eludes VCU and supporters. There are always alternatives to everything under the sun and VCU has other sites they own they want to develop, that they can alter their plans to combine the plans for those buildings with the one they want to scar the West Hospital's site into one large building elsewhere on their campus.

Yes location, location, location is the key for the West Hospital itself. It can't do what it does anywhere else in our skyline. The way the streets below it line up with it, no other can do... unless VCU redesigns its planned building.

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You want to mock everything VCU has done? Well you also want the area to give a select few (those who want to save West Hospital) a very strong voice in the process. Your blanket statement "and this is how the powerful become arrogant and unresponsive to those that they serve" might get better play at the Village Cafe.

Spin Doctor, my comments have been focused on opposition to the planned West Hospital demolition. I agree with Cadeho; VCU has not acknowedged the importance of West to the city and has not adequately explained why West must be demolished in order to execute VCU's planned expansion on the MCV campus. Please note: Opposition to the demolition of West Hospital does not equate to my opposition to everything VCU has ever done since the Egyptian Building was built. Your selective reading of my posts seems to ignore favorable comments regarding the expansion of VCU's academic campus to Broad Street and east of Belvidere.

Now then: back to topic. Demolition is irrevocable, and demolition of landmarks should be carefully considered by all who would be affected. This comparison may be apt: The landmark Penn Station in NYC was demolished in the early 1960s amid much controversy, and replaced in 1968 by the graceless brown drum-shaped concrete hatbox that is Madison Square Garden. A bold, imaginative plan to put the genie back in the bottle by moving Madison Square Garden one block west to the Farley Post Office, building a monumental new train station, and demolishing the current MSG is in danger of collapse due to the softening economy: Plan to Rebuild Penn Station Area May Be Close to Failure

Why is West a landmark worth saving? Here is Ed Slipek's 2004 Style Weekly article that everyone at VCU should read: [url=http://www.styleweekly.com/article.asp?idarticle=8853]Save the West Hospital - Why VCU should renovate one of Richmond

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Excuse my intrusion, but if some of the comments from readers of the following news story won't exxplain VCU's need to replace the building, it's not likely anything will. It's the old theory -- locartion, location, location!

Burt, none of the pro-demolition people at VCU have explained why vacant parcels near and adjacent to West couldn't be utilized for VCU's plan. The article you referenced doesn't address this basic question. Nobody opposes VCU's quest for world-class facilities - but no one has explained why West must be demolished in order to accomplish this.

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Well, if I'm the Spin Doctor, then you're "little Miss, little Miss can't be wrong". :lol: Seriously, I get it. You think there has not been an adequate explanation as to why West Hospital needs to be destroyed. I (others) think the importance of saving West Hospital has not been explained in a way that overcomes the need to replace it with a more useful building. This past week I drove from the 64 East to the Downtown expressway and looked for West Hospital. The views of the hospital were marginal at best. The building is dwarfed by other larger buildings. Sure there might be a spot or two where if you had a zoom camera you could focus in on West Hospital but for the most part all you could see was the roof top.

Since you can pretty much only see the roof top. Saving the roof top design and putting either the same roof or one of similar design on the new building would seem like a good comprimse.

"As to the Village Cafe: I may be the only VCU graduate who hasn't patronized the place; but I think I'll plan a visit on your recommendation. Thanks!"

My recommendation was based on the fact that you would find a receptive audience for your "save West Hospital arguments". If you enjoy "preaching to the choir" it is the place for you to be. As far as the food, I'd pass. ;)

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Burt, none of the pro-demolition people at VCU have explained why vacant parcels near and adjacent to West couldn't be utilized for VCU's plan. The article you referenced doesn't address this basic question. Nobody opposes VCU's quest for world-class facilities - but no one has explained why West must be demolished in order to accomplish this.

Creative, I'll replay a Richmond City Watch response from our friend politico. I'm sure she doesn't mind.

"...the location of the structure ties right in to the current footprint of the Medical Center. The options around it are slim at best and none are positioned better than the West Hospital. Besides, VCU runs the risk of selling it and losing control of what would actually go there. An unpredictable neighbor to an ever-growing Medical College is a risk they are not willing to take."

That is succinct and to the point, IMO. If it's not satisfactory, perhaps a call directly to Mr. Trani from you as a generous alumna will elicit a more detailed reply.

Let me add that I, probably more than any active Richmond preservationist, would mourn the building's demise. As an eleven year-old child, I spent many hours of many days watching it being erected. But, like you I do not oppose VCU's quest for world-class facilities.

PS: Please lift one for the old man when you discover The Village Cafe for the first time. When it was directly across Harrison Street, I and fellow students chegged many a brew while discoursing on the World's ills.

Edited by burt
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"Nobody opposes VCU's quest for world-class facilities - but no one has explained why West must be demolished in order to accomplish this."

I skipped over this post because you directed it towards Burt. I read it this morning (after I read his response to it) and I found this last sentence to be pretty revealing. You even put the word "must" in bold. I'm afraid you have set the bar too high. There will never be an explanation that will satisfy you. If you are that convinced there are better alternatives than no matter what anyone says will convince you that West Hospital MUST be demolished. This is why VCU does not want to enter the debate - it isn't productive.

The RTD has an article on the Downtown Master Plan. It mentions how the reivised draft softens the language on saving West Hospital and brings up "other options".

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-co...03-02-0240.html

Edited by NYCJSW
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As we left downtown last night, I stopped to look at the West Hospital building again. I couldn't help but see those godforesaken window a.c. units. IF this building is to be saved, the removal of these window a.c. units should be a pre-condition to saving it. These a.c. units give creedence to the calls for replacement of this structure. Hmmmm. I always wondered what one of those a.c. units would sound like if it were to ever fall from the window up on the top floors.

Here is a link to a story in this morning's T-D about the downtown master plan. The bottom of this article touches on how the master plan language has been "modified" to be less "accusatory". The word "compromise" was thrown in there as well, but it only related to the language in the plan.

As for replicating the pyramid roof of this building, I would say, save your effort. It won't do the old roof justice. If the exact same roof cannot be re-used, then don't even attempt some half-cocked modern-type, cookie-cutter pyramid that has been used on several other VCU structures.

Compromise = Exact Same Roof

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If you are that convinced there are better alternatives than no matter what anyone says will convince you that West Hospital MUST be demolished. This is why VCU does not want to enter the debate - it isn't productive.

Wrong. VCU doesn't want to debate this issue because, thanks to the MOU, it doesn't have to bother to debate anyone at all. VCU has the absolute right to demolish West whenever it wants. Please try to keep up, would you?

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Wrong. VCU doesn't want to debate this issue because, thanks to the MOU, it doesn't have to bother to debate anyone at all. VCU has the absolute right to demolish West whenever it wants. Please try to keep up, would you?

I don't think saving West Hospital is going to make you happy. Try to relax and enjoy life!

You seem to be missing the point. We all know VCU has the absolute right to demolish the building. Have you read in this thread the repeated requests for VCU to explain why they won't use an alternative site (it was requested by you)?

Creativeclass

"Nobody opposes VCU's quest for world-class facilities - but no one has explained why West must be demolished in order to accomplish this."

I responded to your request for an explanation with the quote you provided. So your keep up statement is rather odd. But a lot of your posts have a rather bitter tone to them.

Edited by NYCJSW
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You seem to be missing the point. We all know VCU has the absolute right to demolish the building. Have you read in this thread the repeated requests for VCU to explain why they won't use an alternative site (it was requested by you)? I responded to your request for an explanation with the quote you provided. So your keep up statement is rather odd. But a lot of your posts have a rather bitter tone to them.

Yawn. I understand your point very well. VCU's idea of "compromise" is to demolish West, with vague promises to try to build a nice replacement building for its world-class labs. That was the plan a decade ago and remains the plan today. I'm not bitter, I understand the legal arrangements that were made long ago to put this plan in motion, but what really interests me is how VCU views stiff inflexibility as a virtue, and demolition as compromise?

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Yawn. I understand your point very well. VCU's idea of "compromise" is to demolish West, with vague promises to try to build a nice replacement building for its world-class labs. That was the plan a decade ago and remains the plan today. I'm not bitter, I understand the legal arrangements that were made long ago to put this plan in motion, but what really interests me is how VCU views stiff inflexibility as a virtue, and demolition as compromise?

For all of you photo enthusiasts, you had better get out there and get your photos of the West Hospital soon, especially the A.D. Williams clinic on Marshall at 12th. I feel that the wrecking ball may be coming sooner than any of us think.

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