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How do we perceive North Carolinians?


The_sandlapper

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^  I'm glad you got something out of that :)

But I have argued that despite SC's size (or b/c of it's size) that it is more evenly dense than most other southeastern states, or perhaps any southeastern state.  Within 30 minute drive you are typically not far from some urban area (50k +) - Greenville, Anderson, Rock Hill, (part of Charlotte), Florence, Myrtle Beach, Sumter, Charleston, Columbia, (part of Augusta), & Hilton Head make it so that everyone in SC has access to some urban amenity.  Only the Orangeburg / Walteboro area could be considered as truly remote - between Augusta - Columbia - Charleston - Savannah.

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I dont think SC has a choice. Its size is a factor and it could one day look like a northern NJ. Not in the same architectural sense but density wise. I hope the leaders down there realize this and put mass transit on the frontburner. I always thought your interstate system and layout was much better that NCs. Hey the states size can be a huge gaining point plus its location.

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I've been on this forum for a while now and It seems like a lot of the North Carolinian's especially the Charlottean's turn their nose up at Atlanta and criticize it as being poorly planned and too congested and all that. Now, this is a generalization of course, but sometimes it just seems that way. I vote for South Carolina for being more humble, but I vote for North Carolina because it is more urban

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Within 30 minute drive you are typically not far from some urban area (50k +) - Greenville, Anderson, Rock Hill, (part of Charlotte), Florence, Myrtle Beach, Sumter, Charleston, Columbia, (part of Augusta),...

I think perhaps you meant to insert Aiken right before (part of Augusta)... :thumbsup:

Only the Orangeburg / Walteboro area could be considered as truly remote - between Augusta - Columbia - Charleston - Savannah.

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I really don't think of either Orangeburg or Walterboro as remote. Orangeburg itself is only about 30 minutes from Columbia. My hometown is in the southern tip of the county, and typically my mom visits Northwoods Mall in North Charleston for a bigger mall experience. It's closer than either Columbia or Columbiana malls in Columbia. Only one county separates Orangeburg County from Richland and Charleston counties. And Walterboro is practically part of Charleston's metropolitan area. Also, it's located on I-95, so Savannah's not that far off either.

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Wow, how did that person arrive at his conclusion? State lines are only political boundaries. Again, it all boils down to the metropolitan areas. It is probably true that most of the larger metros within both groups of those states were more "culturally open" and "sophisticated" (and even more so within the larger ones, i.e. Birmingham, Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, Memphis, Raleigh-Durham), but as far as those states as a whole? Quite similar, I would argue.

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Yep, state lines are only political boundaries. Fact is, northern NC is similar to southern VA, and southern NC is similar to northern SC. There is always similarities between border states......culturally, geographically, topography, etc. For instance, I get the same vibe in north Greensboro/NC that I get in Danville, VA. When I get to south Fayetteville and in the southern sandhills region of NC, it closely resembles SC.

I think these similarities are everywhere in the world. :D

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Krazeeboi - I don't mean Orangeburg & Walteboro themselves - but that area which I've only driven through once before that is south & west of those towns. Essentially the area along Savannah River, if I was going to suggest any place that was remote it would be that area in SC.

That's all...

Newnan, thanks, but I don't think this thread is about which state is better.

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Triadcat--yeah, there are some similarities between the Fayetteville/Laurinburg/Lumberton area of NC and the Pee Dee (Florence/Darlington/Bennettsville) region of SC.

Teshadoh, I think I understand where you're coming from. Orangeburg County is fairly large; I would consider the eastern part of the county to be more remote than the western part, although they're not too dissimilar. At least the eastern part has I-95; the western part is closer to I-20 though.

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Yep, state lines are only political boundaries. Fact is, northern NC is similar to southern VA, and southern NC is similar to northern SC. There is always similarities between border states......culturally, geographically, topography, etc. For instance, I get the same vibe in north Greensboro/NC that I get in Danville, VA. When I get to south Fayetteville and in the southern sandhills region of NC, it closely resembles SC.

I think these similarities are everywhere in the world. :D

Well said, i agree with some fine tune exceptions. Northeastern NC resembles a lot of tidewater VA and Delmarva. Anything north of US 70 resembles a bit of the mid-atlantic states from southeast Virginia to the upper Delmarva. Rockingham, Stokes, Caswell, Surry counties in NC presents a real southside VA feel when going to Reidsville, Eden, Danbury and Mt. Airy. Although in Danville, the city itself looks very un-southern, more like Pennslyvania but culturally southern. Southeastern NC mainly east of US 701 and below the US 74 corridor could might as well be a part of Horry County since its very similar. Richmond and Anson counties in NC do resemble a lot of the midlands especially south of US 74. I was very lucky to live in NC for many years to experience these wide range of regions and differences from Elizabeth City to Asheville, Boone to Southport.

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Well said, i agree with some fine tune exceptions. Northeastern NC resembles a lot of tidewater VA and Delmarva. Anything north of US 70 resembles a bit of the mid-atlantic states from southeast Virginia to the upper Delmarva. Rockingham, Stokes, Caswell, Surry counties in NC presents a real southside VA feel when going to Reidsville, Eden, Danbury and Mt. Airy. Although in Danville, the city itself looks very un-southern, more like Pennslyvania but culturally southern. Southeastern NC mainly east of US 701 and below the US 74 corridor could might as well be a part of Horry County since its very similar. Richmond and Anson counties in NC do resemble a lot of the midlands especially south of US 74. I was very lucky to live in NC for many years to experience these wide range of regions and differences from Elizabeth City to Asheville, Boone to Southport.

Exacltly E. City really does not feel or look that southern until you get in the rural areas. I think it is one city that I would like to do a photo tour of once I am back on the east coast. I also would like to see some more of Charleston as well.

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Well said, i agree with some fine tune exceptions. Northeastern NC resembles a lot of tidewater VA and Delmarva. Anything north of US 70 resembles a bit of the mid-atlantic states from southeast Virginia to the upper Delmarva. Rockingham, Stokes, Caswell, Surry counties in NC presents a real southside VA feel when going to Reidsville, Eden, Danbury and Mt. Airy. Although in Danville, the city itself looks very un-southern, more like Pennslyvania but culturally southern. Southeastern NC mainly east of US 701 and below the US 74 corridor could might as well be a part of Horry County since its very similar. Richmond and Anson counties in NC do resemble a lot of the midlands especially south of US 74. I was very lucky to live in NC for many years to experience these wide range of regions and differences from Elizabeth City to Asheville, Boone to Southport.

Yep.

My mom was born and raised in Danville Va, but her family is from Winston-Salem NC. I have noticed that Danville is quite hilly and has a very old industrial feel to it. My mom said it is a very old mill town. When she got out of the hospital some time back, I drove her up to see her friends.

I have only been to Philadephia, Pennsylvania once but I can see how Danville has that small town PA look.

I should ask my mom, 'cuz she is a graduate from Carnegie-Mellon up in Pittsburgh.

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I dont think SC has a choice. Its size is a factor and it could one day look like a northern NJ. Not in the same architectural sense but density wise. I hope the leaders down there realize this and put mass transit on the frontburner. I always thought your interstate system and layout was much better that NCs. Hey the states size can be a huge gaining point plus its location.

Absolute agreement here - I would advocate some region-wide look at planning to make sure that SC doesn't end up looking like Jersey. I-85 connects a string of metros, and along with interstate improvements (severely needed from VA straight through to GA), other transit improvements should go hand-in-hand, along with some region-wide commitment to getting away from strip development. Atlanta, Greenville-Spartanburg (and - right across the Blue Ridge - Asheville), Greater Charlotte, The NC Triad, and The NC Triangle are sprawled across 3 states, but economically and environmentally they are very much interconnected and growing moreso with the passage of time.

SC - in having a bit less of the sprawl problems seen in Atlanta, Charlotte or Raleigh-Durham has a great opportunity to learn from the mistakes of neighbors. The growth will come; it's all about how it will be guided to not have the Upstate end up looking like Jersey City 50 years down the road.

Metros and cities will and should compete, doing so pushes everyone involved to new heights. However there are a great many issues (involving discussion and actual planning over multiple state lines) where people need to be on the same page.

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And - as for the "who is better" silliness - going back to the grandparents, my roots are in two SC counties and two NC: Newberry & York Co, SC, and Stanley (just E. of Charlotte) and Chatham (just SW of Raleigh-Cary), NC; I've spent lots of time across wide areas of both states, and am proud to say that I know huge swaths of both like the back of my hand. So it's a draw for me.

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Absolute agreement here - I would advocate some region-wide look at planning to make sure that SC doesn't end up looking like Jersey.

The growth will come; it's all about how it will be guided to not have the Upstate end up looking like Jersey City 50 years down the road.

You cant compare NJ to this one. I could see Florida in comparison but not SC.

NJ in general is housing and commerical development built on top of each other with no space. Not to mention you have bodies of water surrounding the state with the Delaware River to teh west and a small land-to-land connection to New York state. This is why it is very densely populated because of its small size and limited room to spread out. Only a handful of roads are left to resemble the "old" New Jersey of what it really looked like before the 1960s with its endless sprawl and diner lot/getty gas station row construction.

SC will NEVER look nor ever be as dense as Jersey City. The type of development that has been instituted since after the 60s will not bring back what Newark, Paterson, New Brunswick and Camden-(NJ) look like. Instead, worst case scenerio, the upstate and the urban crescent of NC will be sprawl capital just like how Atlanta is.

As NCSC74 said, mayyybeeee will be up there like northern Jersey out in teh suburbs. While thats unlikely, its not impossible of that happening.

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My apologies for the length of my usual tome :blush: , i.e., the following:

Growing up in S.C., we considered N.C. our arch-rival in every way. There was even a Carowinds commercial that capitalized on this-remember? It was of the girl and boy straddling the state line in the park, arguing which side was better. LOL! :rofl: Each state

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That was a great post. And as much as Florida in particular has going for it, I don't want to see anything like that in SC. If you ask me, Virginia is the model Southern state. In just about any state ranking that comes out, you can expect Virginia to rank high in the good areas and low in the bad areas. It also went from having the capital of the Confederacy within its borders (well, two capitals actually: Richmond and Danville) to electing the nation's first Black governor.

As for the Carolinas, it seems as though SC had its run for the first 125 years or so, and NC has been having its fun in the sun since the early 1900's. Who knows the the next few decades will bring? While I don't necessarily see either state slowing down, it will be interesting to see how the two match up in, say, 2075. Don't know if I'll be around to see it, but it would be interesting nonetheless. :)

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Why not? Charleston used to be on top. In fact, it was so far on top that other cities couldn't catch up. And yet they did. There was once a time when Birmingham was well poised to be THE southern city (leaving Atlanta by the wayside). What changes the growth of cities is the invention of new transportation methods. Charleston was a port city. Birmingham was a rail city. Detroit is an automobile city. Atlanta is an airport/auto/rail city. There is no telling what the future will hold for transportation, and I see no reason why an SC city can be on top again some day in the future.

Hey, Spartan, I appreciate what you are saying. However, I was referring to the state of S.C., not any city within it.

As for Charleston, it will always be on top of my list . . and a lot other folks as well. :wub: It is a known fact that it IS top-notch as a port, travel destination, preservation leader, etc.

I don't want it to become an Atlanta, though! Towers and modern architecture from the Neck up would be super, more international headquarters locating there tremendous, and the continued re-development of its built environment and neighborhoods wonderful. But sprawl and loss of Southern identity are Atlanta

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Yet on a per capita basis, the Charleston area has the worst sprawl in the state.

How did you arrive at that determination? Seems that would be pretty darn tough to do . . .

All of our Big 3 have horrendous sprawl. Charleston's seems worse, especially traffic-wise, because it is geographically hemmed in by the Atlantic, as well as all those rivers, inlets, marshes, etc. This creates major bottlenecks since development is squeezed onto increasingly smaller plots of high ground. It is also limited by the national forest to the north, and the ACE Basin to the south.

Thankfully, Charleston and Greenville have active land trusts and other conservation organizations keeping a close watch on land use issues and development. Those two also have a strong conservation ethic among the average resident. Not so in Columbia, although it still has its greatest natural asset, the 3 rivers and their banks, relatively intact. This is through sheer luck and/or the foresight of the Guignard clan, depending on how you look at it.

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I don't know if there is such a thing as a specific Southern identity given their is such a diversity in the South. An identity with the Confederacy is often confused with being Southern and I do agree that Charleston is much better known for this than any other city in the Carolinas.

Your excellent writeup did hit on the mark that NC was a reluctant partner in the Civil War. One of the other reasons for this is it's geography. In Civil War days, transportation was fairly limited and because NC did not have any major cities relative to SC or VA, much of the state was fairly inaccessable as there was no way easy way to reach much of the state. Unlike Va or SC, which are fairly compact states, North Carolina is almost 600 miles across. The state was not caught up in the war ferver that ran through Va and SC.

NC did have 3 dominate industries that make it successful in post Civil war days. Tobacco, Textiles and Furniture making.

(for the record, I am a SC native)

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I don't know if there is such a thing as a specific Southern identity given their is such a diversity in the South. An identity with the Confederacy is often confused with being Southern and I do agree that Charleston is much better known for this than any other city in the Carolinas.

Your excellent writeup did hit on the mark that NC was a reluctant partner in the Civil War. One of the other reasons for this is it's geography. In Civil War days, transportation was fairly limited and because NC did not have any major cities relative to SC or VA, much of the state was fairly inaccessable as there was no way easy way to reach much of the state. Unlike Va or SC, which are fairly compact states, North Carolina is almost 600 miles across. The state was not caught up in the war ferver that ran through Va and SC.

NC did have 3 dominate industries that make it successful in post Civil war days. Tobacco, Textiles and Furniture making.

(for the record, I am a SC native)

Thanks, monsoon, that is certainly true about North Carolina

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I don't know if there is such a thing as a specific Southern identity given their is such a diversity in the South. An identity with the Confederacy is often confused with being Southern and I do agree that Charleston is much better known for this than any other city in the Carolinas.

While I wouldn't argue this point with you (after all, the Civil War was started in the Charleston area), Charleston doesn't come across "Confederate-friendly" as much as it does "old European aristocratic." At least to me.

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Actually the old South that created the Confederacy was pretty much old European aristocratic in its class structure, economics, and society. The only thing that was missing was the "Royal" moniker. Basically like Europe, you had a relatively few number of people 1-2% who owned everything and that benefitted from the hard labor of the other 98% of the people who had nothing. The introduction of Slaves was nothing more than an economic decision made possible by the then modern techniques of trans-atlantic shipping.

You either belonged to this ruling class or you didn't and there basically wasn't much of a way to join. People were accepted into "society" by their bloodline which was very similar to Europe and like europe you had 1st and 2nd cousins marrying each other to perserve the line.

Interestingly enough, Europe never imported slaves. The reason for this is that Europe had already started industrializing by the time that cheap shipping would have made Slavery possible, and Europe already had vast populations that could be worked like slaves which made the need for Slaves unnecessary. In comparison, people did to want to live in the South because of the heat so the only way to get the labor needed, was to import Slaves.

Beyond that, Europe and the Confederate South were very simlar. Charleston, Richmond, Atlanta and New Orleans was the old South's center of Society.

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Not being originally from either North or South Carolina, I found this title interesting. Growing up in the "deep" South, I always viewed both North and South Carolina as "THE Carolinas". As a kid when my family first visted Carowinds, I loved the idea that the park was in 2 states and that both states shared a common name. I loved that Ethel and Fred sang "nothing could be finah than to be in Carolina". :D I always the viewed "The Carolinas" as a few steps ahead of the rest of the South. Traveling through, the cities seemed more urban, the people I met seemed more well traveled. As an outsider, I never really thought about North and South Carolina separately....they were always one to me and they always had a strong impact....made a great impression.

Since I've been an adult and now living in Greenville, I still feel pretty much the same way. I never really think when I'm in Asheville, Charlotte or Raleigh that I'm not in the state where I reside. I am in the Carolinas, and to me the Carolinas are wonderful! I have many friends in cities spread throughout the Carolinas and great fondness for these. I feel just as at home in Charlotte and Raleigh as I do in Greenville and Charleston. Love them all! :thumbsup:

Together "THE Carolinas" have a really strong regional identity to the rest of the US. Most of the U.S. gets NC and SC confused sometimes, but is that a bad thing? I don't think so.....

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Now - I don't think there are significant differences between two states, or bordering states to tell much of a difference. But I think - at least in the beginning colonial days, it was much more apparent. 'South Carolina' was essentially Charleson & the plantations along the coast. In the 1700's, everone else that lived upstate had most likely migrated from NC & Virginia. This is how we still have our lowstate/upstate feuds, because historically the peoples, economies & cultures have been very different.

I'm not aware of North Carolina ever really being concentrated in one area, maybe b/c it wasn't until the later 1800's or 1900's that sizable cities comparable to Charleston developed. So there was never an established 'meaning' to be a North Carolinian, & also it was the Piedmont region of NC that first developed greater - whereas in SC it was concentrated in Charleston or the other port towns.

Perhaps that wasn't the clearest theory - but I think it just boils down to how, why, where & when the states developed to explain our differences. But now - with Greenville-Spartanburg as prominant as it is & economically being more similar to other Piedmont / Foothill cities in NC - there are fewer cultural divisions.

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