Unity Park (New 160 Acre West End Park)

[gman]

A 10 story tower in that setting is tall enough. The idea is not to see all of the Upstate, but to be able to lookout over Unity Park. 

[distortedlogic]

2 hours ago, gman said:

A 10 story tower in that setting is tall enough. The idea is not to see all of the Upstate, but to be able to lookout over Unity Park. 

If that is indeed the goal then I would agree that would be tall enough. BUT, the stated goal is to have a view of "downtown and the mountains to the North", in addition to overlooking the park. Based on the planned height, and the view in the video, IMO, that goal is only met about half way. So my question remains; why spend that kind of money if  it does not meet it's goal? If we just want a park overlook, that is fine, but surely there are less expensive ways to over look a park. It just doesn't make good sense to me, but who am I?

[GvilleSC]

14 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

If that is indeed the goal then I would agree that would be tall enough. BUT, the stated goal is to have a view of "downtown and the mountains to the North", in addition to overlooking the park. Based on the planned height, and the view in the video, IMO, that goal is only met about half way. So my question remains; why spend that kind of money if  it does not meet it's goal? If we just want a park overlook, that is fine, but surely there are less expensive ways to over look a park. It just doesn't make good sense to me, but who am I?

I don't believe the video is accurate. 

[SVL]

[apaladin]

On 5/1/2022 at 8:33 PM, SVL said:

These are pretty ugly, not the least bit inviting. 

[NewlyUpstate]

I like them. They look really nice in person

[Horatio Nelson]

14 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

I like them. They look really nice in person

Yeah they actually work better than I thought they would.

[GvilleSC]

1 hour ago, NewlyUpstate said:

I like them. They look really nice in person

Agreed -- when this park is written up in articles across the country, it will be these structures that are included amongst photographs. They're unique, high-design, and tie together with the other wood/metal elements that are used across the park. 

[NewlyUpstate]

Welborn Street will re-open as the main entrance to Unity Park starting Monday.  The temporary Nassau entrance will be converted into a pedestrian trail.

Edited May 6, 2022 by NewlyUpstate

[JohnSmith99]

$5.5 million public dollars for a tower down in a hole?! And the name is "Honor" Tower? Liberty, Unity and now Honor - how cliché are we trying to be? It is shocking that more people aren't upset about the amount of money going into this park, while other public spaces all over the city sit in disrepair. That "tower" will be another item that is not maintained and is ultimately shuttered. Imagine what real good could be done with $11 million dollars! 

[NewlyUpstate]

2 minutes ago, JohnSmith99 said:

$5.5 million public dollars for a tower down in a hole?! And the name is "Honor" Tower? Liberty, Unity and now Honor - how cliché are we trying to be? It is shocking that more people aren't upset about the amount of money going into this park, while other public spaces all over the city sit in disrepair. That "tower" will be another item that is not maintained and is ultimately shuttered. Imagine what real good could be done with $11 million dollars! 

Do you have any suggestions for other places to use tourist dollars for capital projects?  The return on investment on the Honor Tower would be substantial. 

[JohnSmith99]

3 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

Do you have any suggestions for other places to use tourist dollars for capital projects?  The return on investment on the Honor Tower would be substantial. 

What ROI will the tower possibly bring? What will happen around Unity Park because of Honor Tower that would not have happened otherwise? Please answer that

And just off the top of my head, other places the funds could go that would bring real ROI: any of our gateways, specifically the old Memorial Auditorium site - which Mayor Knox said would be developed immediately after demolition! It is private land, yes, but imagine if the city told the developer we have $5.5 million to create a public destination inside your project. Repairing public fountains throughout downtown, many of which have been broken for years, like the RiverPlace fountain/splashpad. Funding the Greenville Triumph stadium somewhere in the city, instead of letting it go to Mauldin. A handicap accessible playground (it's Unity Park, yet there is not a single playground in our city designed for the disabled!). That took 2 minutes - do you want more? 

[NewlyUpstate]

2 hours ago, JohnSmith99 said:

What ROI will the tower possibly bring? What will happen around Unity Park because of Honor Tower that would not have happened otherwise? Please answer that

And just off the top of my head, other places the funds could go that would bring real ROI: any of our gateways, specifically the old Memorial Auditorium site - which Mayor Knox said would be developed immediately after demolition! It is private land, yes, but imagine if the city told the developer we have $5.5 million to create a public destination inside your project. Repairing public fountains throughout downtown, many of which have been broken for years, like the RiverPlace fountain/splashpad. Funding the Greenville Triumph stadium somewhere in the city, instead of letting it go to Mauldin. A handicap accessible playground (it's Unity Park, yet there is not a single playground in our city designed for the disabled!). That took 2 minutes - do you want more? 

They are looking for a private developer for the old Memorial Auditorium site. I imagine there will indeed be public dollars contributed to making nice public spaces similar to the Camperdown project once they have an approved project.

Repairing public fountains - I'm unsure if this one in particular qualifies for tourist dollars, either way it would be an expense, not a capital project, so doesn't address my question.  

Funding the Greenville Triumph stadium - this is an interesting point that would be even more controversial than the Honor Tower.  The construction of a stadium would be for the direct use of a private team and for their benefit.  Public funding of sports stadiums is a big topic of discussion around the country right now with some serious pushback.  Personally, I would support some measure of public funding (I believe the Mauldin project was estimated at $39 million). Not sure I would sign up for full funding though...

As far as what the Honor Tower could possibly bring - it turns the park into a tourist destination that is photographed and shown in magazines / news articles globally.  It's like asking what would Falls Park be if there was no Liberty Bridge.  The bridge and the falls is what make that park, without BOTH of them, its just a very nice local park.  So, basically, the Honor Tower makes Unity Park a tourist destination that attracts visitors who spend money at our bars, restaurants, and hotels. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by NewlyUpstate

[JohnSmith99]

1 minute ago, NewlyUpstate said:

As far as what the Honor Tower could possibly bring - it turns the park into a tourist destination that is photographed and shown in magazines / news articles globally.  It's like asking what would Falls Park be if there was no Liberty Bridge.  The bridge and the falls is what makes that park, without BOTH of them, its just a very nice local park.  So, basically, the Honor Park makes Unity Park a tourist destination that attracts visitors who spend money at our bars, restaurants, and hotels. 

You really think a 10-story tower at one of the lowest points in the City is going to be comparable to Liberty Bridge? And will become the postcard for our city?! People will walk it once, realize the views are better at several rooftop bars in Greenville, and never return. Why would a tourist walk it? To see what?

Every dollar that goes into Honor Tower is a dollar that could have gone to something else - and that includes the private money. So while $5.5 million is restricted for tourist related items, the other $5.5 million is not. $11 million could help so many in so many ways, yet we're going to build a lookout tower in a hole, name it something cliché like we're on a military base or something, and then not maintain it like we do with our other public investments. Lose, lose, lose and a moment in time we're going to reflect upon in the years to come and be disappointed by the waste. 

[vicupstate]

30 minutes ago, JohnSmith99 said:

$5.5 million public dollars for a tower down in a hole?! And the name is "Honor" Tower? Liberty, Unity and now Honor - how cliché are we trying to be? It is shocking that more people aren't upset about the amount of money going into this park, while other public spaces all over the city sit in disrepair. That "tower" will be another item that is not maintained and is ultimately shuttered. Imagine what real good could be done with $11 million dollars! 

Liberty Bridge is called that because the LIBERTY CORPORATION donated their funds to name it. 

Honor Tower is because it is dedicated to fallen police/firemen/vets

Unity because it is finally building the park that was eliminated in 1939  that was the only black park in the city at the time. 

You are Assuming this tower will not be maintained but given its prominence and tourism  function, I do not believe that will happen.     

[NewlyUpstate]

5 minutes ago, JohnSmith99 said:

You really think a 10-story tower at one of the lowest points in the City is going to be comparable to Liberty Bridge? And will become the postcard for our city?! People will walk it once, realize the views are better at several rooftop bars in Greenville, and never return. Why would a tourist walk it? To see what?

Every dollar that goes into Honor Tower is a dollar that could have gone to something else - and that includes the private money. So while $5.5 million is restricted for tourist related items, the other $5.5 million is not. $11 million could help so many in so many ways, yet we're going to build a lookout tower in a hole, name it something cliché like we're on a military base or something, and then not maintain it like we do with our other public investments. Lose, lose, lose and a moment in time we're going to reflect upon in the years to come and be disappointed by the waste. 

You've made your opinion clear, so obviously there is no changing your mind because you just don't like the idea of a tower in Unity Park. Personally, I think the Tower cements the park as a destination and the funding is worth it.  Sort of agree to disagree.

[JohnSmith99]

5 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Liberty Bridge is called that because the LIBERTY CORPORATION donated their funds to name it. 

Honor Tower is because it is dedicated to fallen police/firemen/vets

Unity because it is finally building the park that was eliminated in 1939  that was the only black park in the city at the time. 

You are Assuming this tower will not be maintained but given its prominence and tourism  function, I do not believe that will happen.     

Yes - these are all facts that locals know, including the Peace Center being named after the Peace family. Tourists will not know that and find it cliché, especially because Honor/Unity were picked by the City, while Liberty and Peace were led by the private sector. 

[clemsonfan]

How about sprucing up the zoo? Some of the enclosures really need a makeover, like the lions and the orangutans.

[JohnSmith99]

52 minutes ago, clemsonfan said:

How about sprucing up the zoo? Some of the enclosures really need a makeover, like the lions and the orangutans.

Great idea. Another example of something that is old/run-down that the City has not truly invested in for years. This tower is a glory project for our Mayor and nothing else. 

[wellen]

1 hour ago, clemsonfan said:

How about sprucing up the zoo? Some of the enclosures really need a makeover, like the lions and the orangutans.

I haven't been in the last 2 years, but I thought I remembered both of those things getting upgrades.  Is there still something that needs to be done to improve those enclosures?

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2021/06/14/greenville-zoo-upgrades-best-small-modern-zoo-country/5243625001/

"To maintain that standard, zoo staff have completed several upgrades, including a new holding space for the lions, a revamped space for the primates and a brand-new surgical unit in the animal hospital. The improvements totaled almost $2.3 million. "

[vicupstate]

1 hour ago, JohnSmith99 said:

You really think a 10-story tower at one of the lowest points in the City is going to be comparable to Liberty Bridge? And will become the postcard for our city?! People will walk it once, realize the views are better at several rooftop bars in Greenville, and never return. Why would a tourist walk it? To see what?

Every dollar that goes into Honor Tower is a dollar that could have gone to something else - and that includes the private money. So while $5.5 million is restricted for tourist related items, the other $5.5 million is not. $11 million could help so many in so many ways, yet we're going to build a lookout tower in a hole, name it something cliché like we're on a military base or something, and then not maintain it like we do with our other public investments. Lose, lose, lose and a moment in time we're going to reflect upon in the years to come and be disappointed by the waste. 

1. It won't be one of the lowest points in our city.  Fill will raise the base of the tower to something much closer to the city average.

2. The whole point is to give views to the mountains to anyone, not just   those that work in our taller buildings.  Who is going to go to a restaurant with kids in tow just to  see the view.  The tallest rooftop bar is 8 floors by my count anyway.

3.  You would not get $5.5 donated merely to fix swings and tennis courts in neighborhood parks. It would only be donated for something new, high profile/iconic that the whole city and visitors would want to go to.   

[vicupstate]

1 hour ago, JohnSmith99 said:

Yes - these are all facts that locals know, including the Peace Center being named after the Peace family. Tourists will not know that and find it cliché, especially because Honor/Unity were picked by the City, while Liberty and Peace were led by the private sector. 

Considering their will be plaques and memorials including in this project,  the average tourist would understand why the name Honor was chosen.  

[krazeeboi]

2 hours ago, JohnSmith99 said:

Yes - these are all facts that locals know, including the Peace Center being named after the Peace family. Tourists will not know that and find it cliché, especially because Honor/Unity were picked by the City, while Liberty and Peace were led by the private sector. 

I don't think most tourists will even be thinking that deeply about it. 

[JohnSmith99]

56 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Considering their will be plaques and memorials including in this project,  the average tourist would understand why the name Honor was chosen.  

This isn't the point. Why can't you just admit that all of our new "attractions" sound the same and it's just a smidge funny - Peace, Liberty, Unity, Honor...next will be Valor and Dignity - too bad Charlotte already took Freedom 

1 hour ago, vicupstate said:

1. It won't be one of the lowest points in our city.  Fill will raise the base of the tower to something much closer to the city average.

2. The whole point is to give views to the mountains to anyone, not just   those that work in our taller buildings.  Who is going to go to a restaurant with kids in tow just to  see the view.  The tallest rooftop bar is 8 floors by my count anyway.

3.  You would not get $5.5 donated merely to fix swings and tennis courts in neighborhood parks. It would only be donated for something new, high profile/iconic that the whole city and visitors would want to go to.   

1. So now we're going to walk up a hill of fill to get to the base of the Honor Tower? That part of Unity Park is 918ft above sea-level according to GIS. Main Street in front of the Hyatt is 988ft above sea level. If each of the 10-stories is 10-feet tall, that will make the top of Honor Tower 1,018 feet above sea level - or on the 3rd floor of the Hyatt Office Building...

2. Now it's about giving a "free" view of the mountains? Or one that's easy with kids? Just take a drive to one of our beautiful state parks IN THE MOUNTAINS! Or stop at a lookout on the side of our many state highways. That is an absurd point

3. This is a fair point, but you must admit that people are going to give their money somewhere - so if this $5.5 million is being given here, it's $5.5 million less that could be given somewhere else... 

[gvegascple]

4 hours ago, JohnSmith99 said:

$5.5 million public dollars for a tower down in a hole?! And the name is "Honor" Tower? Liberty, Unity and now Honor - how cliché are we trying to be? It is shocking that more people aren't upset about the amount of money going into this park, while other public spaces all over the city sit in disrepair. That "tower" will be another item that is not maintained and is ultimately shuttered. Imagine what real good could be done with $11 million dollars! 

You seem oddly over passionate about spending money on this park.   Money spent on the tower will be  more than just made back in tourism and tax revenue and nearby development.   The land the tower is being built on is being built up so its not the lowest spot in the city not that it matters, it is for views of the park, the skyline, and the mountains which it will do.   So if its not about money or the views, what is the real reason you don't want money spent on this park?

Edited May 6, 2022 by gvegascple