Unity Park (New 160 Acre West End Park)

[gman]

The other side of the Unity Park area success story. There are no easy answers. "In Unity Park's shadow, a Greenville woman calculates the cost of her life." https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2023/01/09/unity-park-greenville-development-woman-struggles-survive-housing-displacement/69575286007/

[GvilleSC]

This is the one type of story in which The Greenville News will invest resources. 

[gman430]

They have resources? Who the heck still even reads the Greenville Snooze?  They must be desperate for new subscribers. 

Edited January 10 by gman430

[johnpro318]

40 minutes ago, gman430 said:

They have resources? Who the heck still even reads the Greenville Snooze?  They must be desperate for new subscribers. 

Had to go through hoops to unsubscribe this week. Do they honestly think their stories are worth $11 a month?

[NewlyUpstate]

I really wish articles like these would bring more solutions to the table; otherwise it just comes off as anti-development and NIMBY.  The way this article is written, it seems to suggest that the answer is to leave highly desirable locations undeveloped and impoverished rather than improving them (which inherently brings gentrification)... but since the author doesn't lay out any recommendations, all of that gets left up to assumption.

Some potential remedies could include - building more housing density (increasing supply, which in the long term helps manage housing costs), mandating affordable housing (how much should be mandated?), rent increase control... etc.. but the author, once again, brings no recommendations to the table other than complaining about a new park being built.

I just feel like its not value added to the situation.. anywhere that is increasing in desirability is having to battle against gentrification.  Writing sob-stories in an attempt to stop development is basically like an old man yelling at the clouds.

Edited January 10 by NewlyUpstate

[gman430]

The amount of news stories on the Greenville News website this morning regarding gentrification and trying to throw Unity Park under the bus is beyond stupid.  What sane person would even want to take the time to read them all? What do they want the city to do with Unity Park? Tear it down and move the public works department back there?  Seems really odd to me to be complaining about this park after it’s already built. 

Edited January 11 by gman430

[motonenterprises]

2 hours ago, gman430 said:

The amount of news stories on the Greenville News website this morning regarding gentrification and trying to throw Unity Park under the bus is beyond stupid.  What sane person would even want to take the time to read them all? What do they want the city to do with Unity Park? Tear it down and move the public works department back there?  Seems really odd to me to be complaining about this park after it’s already built. 

I know I don't agree with everything you say, but I agree with this. I'm about to cancel my subscription with them.

[distortedlogic]

^^

I noticed this as well; there were at least 3 separate stories on the website yesterday on this. I wondered if maybe someone was doing a special segment on this. I think it is an important issue to bring attention to; I don't think anyone here wants people to have to leave their homes. However, the issue is much more complex than just people being "pushed out of their neighborhoods." Many of the areas that are being gentrified are very run down, often having high rates of crime, drugs, and prostitution, and are adjacent to areas that have already been renewed. While many of these areas tend to be home to more minorities, I don't think it's a race issues; I see it as a poverty issue; often multi generational. I am sure it affects all races. Ignoring those areas, or leaving them as is, is probably not healthy either. Many of those people rent, so landlords have a responsibility as well. But we can't expect growing areas to not renew blighted areas. I suspect many people would then complain that "no one wants to address those poor areas in the middle of growing cities."

[rabbit seisin]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:02 AM, gman said:

The other side of the Unity Park area success story. There are no easy answers. "In Unity Park's shadow, a Greenville woman calculates the cost of her life." https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2023/01/09/unity-park-greenville-development-woman-struggles-survive-housing-displacement/69575286007/

Yeah, here's the money quote from that article:

Quote

Her rent will double June 1, the document in her hand says, because she no longer qualifies for a federally subsidized rate.

Emphasis mine.

The reason this woman can't afford to live in Southernside anymore is because she's losing her HUD assistance. The circumstances surrounding her eviction are tragic, but they could have happened in any town in America. This is a systemic failure of means-tested welfare administered by an impersonal centralized bureaucracy. The fact that the woman in question lives near Unity Park is the slimmest thread by which the Greenville News ties their despicably-named "Cost of Unity" series to her hardships. It is practically begging for a companion series called "The Benefit of Segregation" where we advocate for the preservation of shattered post-industrial brownfields which offer zero amenities but at least keep the nearby rents low.

By the way, I'm in Unity Park all the time and it's full of visitors of every age race and creed playing alongside one another in harmony. That must chap the Greenville News absolutely raw. 

 

[vicupstate]

The Greenville News is doing what many newspapers do most of the time.  They create a conflict or publicize and magnify an  existing one.  It gets eyeballs and by extension money. 

[motonenterprises]

6 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

The Greenville News is doing what many newspapers do most of the time.  They create a conflict or publicize and magnify an  existing one.  It gets eyeballs and by extension money. 

Or they lose some like me. I cancelled. They never have anything really worth reading to me. They didn't even mention the 19 story building.

[gman430]

New survey stakes up at South Hudson at Meadow Streets next to the transformer station. I assume this is one of the affordable housing sites. 

[gman430]

[vicupstate]

2 hours ago, gman430 said:

New survey stakes up at South Hudson at Meadow Streets next to the transformer station. I assume this is one of the affordable housing sites. 

The city did a land swap with  a separate property owner. The city no longer owns that parcel. It got property at Meadow and Nassau. 

[gman]

On 1/11/2023 at 2:29 PM, vicupstate said:

The Greenville News is doing what many newspapers do most of the time.  They create a conflict or publicize and magnify an  existing one.  It gets eyeballs and by extension money. 

Speaking of gentrification, check out this story in the P&C. https://www.postandcourier.com/news/unauthorized-street-signs-on-charleston-peninsula-warn-of-gentrification-ahead/article_122dc1e4-a3d7-11ed-bcfa-2b3e50654120.html

[gman430]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CofGb-QPn7N/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[distortedlogic]

Wow, the view they show in that video must be from 1000 feet up; when did they decide to make Honor Tower a supertall?

[apaladin]

That design looks much better than the original ice cream stick one.

[distortedlogic]

1 hour ago, apaladin said:

That design looks much better than the original ice cream stick one.

This?

 

I prefer this one.

[oklahoma75]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:39 AM, gman430 said:

The amount of news stories on the Greenville News website this morning regarding gentrification and trying to throw Unity Park under the bus is beyond stupid.  What sane person would even want to take the time to read them all? What do they want the city to do with Unity Park? Tear it down and move the public works department back there?  Seems really odd to me to be complaining about this park after it’s already built. 

Couldn't agree more!  The Gville News is very one sided and stirs the pot more than reporting the facts.  They frame the narrative around development in a very negative light.  EVERY article seems to be about gentrification and who is displaced.  Not arguing that is a real thing but reporting on both sides of issue would be refreshing.  Also, it should question our politicians more instead of slamming developers and investors.  I am convinced there is a solution to gentrification and affordable housing.  Inclusionary zoning is not the answer.  Incentivizing a desired outcome would be far more powerful.  For example:

1. For gentrification, do something like the county does for agricultural property taxes (and roll back taxes) for areas that are susceptible to gentrification.  HUD even provides an outline of areas that could be targeted.  Freeze the tax base in these areas so property owners can realize the INCREASE in wealth that new development brings to an area without the increase in property taxes.  Should that owner ever decide to sell then then the property taxes that would have been paid on the higher assessed value (because of growth/development) can be paid at closing and can be negotiated between the buyer and seller.   This will stop people from being pushed out because they can't afford the higher property taxes and it'll work for renters too.  If the investor owner keeps a small tax bill that benefit is passed on to the renter.  This has been floated by some council members but they lack the will to push it forward.  
2. For affordable housing - this is a federal thing but we should be yelling at our representatives, change the depreciation schedule for affordable housing.  Instead of 27.5 years for residential make it 15 or even 10 or 5.  Then change the passive loss rules so investors can pour money into affordable hosing projects and realize the tax shelter associated with any losses resulting in depreciation expense.  Sure there will be challenges but i do think this would direct money into a project that otherwise doesn't pencil out.  The world would end up with too much affordable housing because capital will seek a return and deprecation is a powerful tool that helps.
3. Fix the Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC).  Currently, the folks in Columbia at SC Hosing have this program on hold and it is unbelievable bureaucratic.  There will be nothing until 2024 at the earliest and these credits are allocated by the fed to each state based on population.  The money is there but the state isn't funding any more projects right now.  In fact they are taking that bond allocation (mechanism to provide the credits) and directing it to other things.  Some of the boys in Columbia think it's a freebie for people who don't deserve it and want to sit on it (what i've heard)

Just a few ideas off the top of my head that will fuel the power of capitalism to provide a good to a market that is unbelievable large!

 

 

[vicupstate]

^^ Regarding #1, do you know of a city or county somewhere that does this now?  

[NewlyUpstate]

19 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

^^ Regarding #1, do you know of a city or county somewhere that does this now?  

It's a solution that is becoming more and more popular. Here are some examples from Philly and Atlanta. Not sure about the recursive property tax claw back when selling... every city does something slightly different but with the same overall purpose.

https://www.phila.gov/services/payments-assistance-taxes/payment-plans-and-assistance-programs/income-based-programs-for-residents/apply-for-the-longtime-owner-occupants-program-loop/

https://www.farmersfieldonline.com/featured-stories/2021/12/16/a-unique-funding-program-to-keep-homeowners-in-hot-neighborhoods-in-their-houses

Tons of places are trying to do something similar though, it's seen as potentially one of the more effective ways to prevent the harmful impact of gentification.

Some states have laws against this.. not sure exactly what the law is in South Carolina, but in North Carolina, its considered unconstitutional - https://canons.sog.unc.edu/2019/08/gentrification-and-property-tax-relief/

 

Edited February 20 by NewlyUpstate

[vicupstate]

16 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

It's a solution that is becoming more and more popular. Here are some examples from Philly and Atlanta. Not sure about the recursive property tax claw back when selling... every city does something slightly different but with the same overall purpose.

https://www.phila.gov/services/payments-assistance-taxes/payment-plans-and-assistance-programs/income-based-programs-for-residents/apply-for-the-longtime-owner-occupants-program-loop/

https://www.farmersfieldonline.com/featured-stories/2021/12/16/a-unique-funding-program-to-keep-homeowners-in-hot-neighborhoods-in-their-houses

Tons of places are trying to do something similar though, it's seen as potentially one of the more effective ways to prevent the harmful impact of gentification.

Some states have laws against this.. not sure exactly what the law is in South Carolina, but in North Carolina, its considered unconstitutional - https://canons.sog.unc.edu/2019/08/gentrification-and-property-tax-relief/

 

Charleston has sort of lead the way on Affordable Housing initiatives, and since I have not heard of them doing this, I suspect a change in state law would be required.  Considering how VERY often our state constitution is amended, it would probably require one. That's not to say it couldn't be done.  

[gman430]

In other words, three years from now none of these projects will be under construction just like all of the other proposed projects downtown: 

https://www.foxcarolina.com/2023/02/28/update-whats-status-unity-park-affordable-housing-projects/

Delay after delay after delay. 

[gman430]