Hayden Burns RFP's announced today.

[bobliocatt]

^No doubt, I'm sure the design will change for the better, if it is the one chosen. However, I wouldn't lay my hopes on the design review committee, especially after they had no problems approving the Econo Lodge at Fidelity, last week.

[jacksonvillian]

Hey Guys, I have a bit of an inside track on this one, I have attended several marketing meetings for the Ocean Square development.... As for the rendering, it is a bit deciving, because of its mono-cromatic color. It is actually a combination of a classic red brick blend and stone with a slate roof... not mediterranean looking at all. With those materials and the octagonal tower on the corner of Forsyth and Ocean Sts. the developer is describing the design as "urban". As for the lower levels, I think that it will look great and interact with pedestrians well. The one feature at the bottom front is a three story rotunda with a glass atrium roof.

Renderings rarely do justice to the actual plans.

[bobliocatt]

Hey Guys, I have a bit of an inside track on this one, I have attended several marketing meetings for the Ocean Square development.... As for the rendering, it is a bit deciving, because of its mono-cromatic color. It is actually a combination of a classic red brick blend and stone with a slate roof... not mediterranean looking at all. With those materials and the octagonal tower on the corner of Forsyth and Ocean Sts. the developer is describing the design as "urban". As for the lower levels, I think that it will look great and interact with pedestrians well. The one feature at the bottom front is a three story rotunda with a glass atrium roof.

Renderings rarely do justice to the actual plans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's much better, I guess I read too much into the rendering. What type of uses would be placed along Adams Street?

[RiversideGator]

I should have been suspicious about this proposal when I saw it was named "Ocean Square". I think the beachy/stucco/Spanish/Mediterranean design is mediocre at best and looks more like cheap beach condos in Flagler County than a serious downtown structure. Why is it so many architects and developers believe they have to make Jacksonville look like Madrid on the St Johns?? Jacksonville's link to Mediterranean architecture is quite far fetched. It also doesnt blend in at all with the existing buildings in the area, and doesnt look like it addresses the street very well either. The bottom line is this is now my least favorite proposal. I would have to say that Vestcor would be my pick now. Hell, saving the existing library is better than building this one.

[jacksonvillian]

That's much better, I guess I read too much into the rendering.  What type of uses would be placed along Adams Street?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Retail amd the private entrances to the Condo tower I think.

[RiversideGator]

Jacksonvillian: I didnt read your post before I posted my rant against stucco. While I am heartened to see that there will be brick/stone, I think the design should be altered to give it more interaction with the street. Also, if you are gonna go for a more traditional look, it should be symmetrical. Maybe it is just me, but asymmetrical buildings drive me crazy (unless they are self-conciously modern buildings). And, now that I study it some more, it kind of looks like a cross between a French chateau and the White Tower in the Tower of London. I say pick one or the other and give it some symmetry.

[jacksonvillian]

Jacksonvillian:  I didnt read your post before I posted my rant against stucco.  While I am heartened to see that there will be brick/stone, I think the design should be altered to give it more interaction with the street.  Also, if you are gonna go for a more traditional look, it should be symmetrical.  Maybe it is just me, but asymmetrical buildings drive me crazy (unless they are self-conciously modern buildings).  And, now that I study it some more, it kind of looks like a cross between a French chateau and the White Tower in the Tower of London.  I say pick one or the other and give it some symmetry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed... I hate anything stucco downtown. Leave that for the suburbs. From what I understand, the developer was rather displeased with the rendering and will produce a new one if their proposal is met with interest from the city.

Let's hope.

[asonj23]

Too bad it doesn't at least match the height of the 11E Building.

[vicupstate]

Hey Guys, I have a bit of an inside track on this one, I have attended several marketing meetings for the Ocean Square development.... As for the rendering, it is a bit deciving, because of its mono-cromatic color. It is actually a combination of a classic red brick blend and stone with a slate roof... not mediterranean looking at all. With those materials and the octagonal tower on the corner of Forsyth and Ocean Sts. the developer is describing the design as "urban". As for the lower levels, I think that it will look great and interact with pedestrians well. The one feature at the bottom front is a three story rotunda with a glass atrium roof.

Renderings rarely do justice to the actual plans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds much better. This type project is the highest and best use for the site, IMO. With some work on the exact design, it should be a great addition to downtown, if it gets the nod.

Jacksonvillian, do you think the developers would be open to adding more floors, if the interest is strong?

[crazy cuban]

from the rendering, i thought it was a Berkman Light... now i am not sure what the hell that is??? as for Vestcor, i expect much of the same, although Mark Ferrel said otherwise, being someone who worked for one of Vestcor's main architects, i think that they have high taste and small budgets, so you see a rendering and in the end what you have left is a small facsimile of the initial.

anyways, it's going to be money talking and so far Vestcor is the one opening their wallet big enough, as for fire/police pension fund... a barter deal is just real bad for the city>>> and i don't think they will even consider it. they need to focus on the trio.

will they have the chocolate popcorn at the Peterbrooke Factory??? (insert sarcasm)>>>.

out

[RiversideGator]

Who are these developers? Do they have a track record of success or is this their first project? What I am trying to find out is how likely is it that this will be built if they are chosen?

[jacksonvillian]

from the rendering, i thought it was a Berkman Light... now i am not sure what the hell that is???  as for Vestcor, i expect much of the same, although Mark Ferrel said otherwise, being someone who worked for one of Vestcor's main architects, i think that they have high taste and small budgets, so you see a rendering and in the end what you have left is a small facsimile of the initial.

anyways, it's going to be money talking and so far Vestcor is the one opening their wallet big enough, as for fire/police pension fund...  a barter deal is just real bad for the city>>>  and i don't think they will even consider it.  they need to focus on the trio. 

will they have the chocolate popcorn at the Peterbrooke Factory???  (insert sarcasm)>>>.

out

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does anybody know what Vestcor is offering? So far I think the Fire/Police fund has offered 6.5 million but that a credit against debt.

[jacksonvillian]

Who are these developers?  Do they have a track record of success or is this their first project?  What I am trying to find out is how likely is it that this will be built if they are chosen?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for the Ocean Square group, it consists of locally based developer, large commercial contractor, and legal firm... all very successful.

[Captain Obvious]

Does anybody know what Vestcor is offering? So far I think the Fire/Police fund has offered 6.5 million but that a credit against debt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Vestcor didn't give their price. The Police and Fire fund is offering ZERO. Although they claim they would give the city a $6.5 million credit ... the only reason the city owes them money is because as a quasi-public pension fund, the city is obligated to cover their investment shortfalls!!! The only reason the city owes the pension money, is because their previous private investments didn't earn enough money!!! Think about that bullcrap for a minute.

Riverside Gator ... about the developers' track records...

Vestcor - Vestcor.com. By far the most experienced group. They've built tons and tons of multi-family housing. Most of it is suburban though. Exceptions are their rennovations of 11E and the Carling.

Main Street LLC - Urbancore is one of the partners. He's done some great smaller projects. Theurbancore.com

Peterbrooke - The are a chocolate company. The have a bunch of stores around town. That's about it.

Police & Fire - They own an ugly garage on Monroe St. They rennovated a beautiful historic building off Main st. and turned it into the building with firehouse. subs in it. They recently aquired the Laura Trio, and haven't done anything with them yet.

Ocean St - never heard of them

[bobliocatt]

What did the Firehouse Subs building look like, before the new stucco facade?

[Urban_Legend]

I should have been suspicious about this proposal when I saw it was named "Ocean Square".

I'm thinking they named it that because it borders Adams, Forsyth, and Ocean streets.

I'm not too fond of the wall that's facing Forsyth Street. That's one of the things I hate about the old library, is the medival wall it has facing Forsyth. Now this one has it too!

[DavePaulk]

I think the Ocean Square proposal is pretty good, but it's short. However, I think the old library is hideous, so I'm in favor of anything that includes demolishing it.

[RiversideGator]

Does anyone know when the City will decide who the winner of the RFP is??

[TheUrbanCore]

June 3