What do you love about downtown?

[bic]

So again, what is the difference between hours?  Yes, I could understand if people were leaving the clubs at 6 am during rush hour!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it's not so much the driving that cities are worried about, but more so the quality of life for those living downtown. Downtown residents may not want to be bothered with music blasting from rooftop bars and passing cars as people are out getting plastered every night until the wee hours of the morning. Not to mention the drunks who could be yelling in the streets and causing trouble, which would require having more police around, or at least have the same amount stay out later.

Right now downtown Orlando doesn't have so much of a problem with these issues because the relatively few downtown denizens live away from where much of the action takes place. I can definitely see problems arising down the road when there are more residential units along Orange Ave., Chrurch Street, and Central. It'll be a lot like airport situation-- people will buy homes near the airport because they may be cheap or otherwise desirable, then complain about the noise. Downtown is probably in store for the same thing. People will flock to downtown because of it's vibrancy and newness but once they settle in, people will begin to complain about stuff like noise and last call hours...especially those who are used to living in the suburbs. Maybe not so much in the beginning, but certainly after more luxury condo's like Tradition Towers are built. Old farts who just paid close to a million dollars for their view of the SunTrust building will raise a stink because they didn't realize they also paid to listen to the music from Cairo's roofdeck every night until 2am.

It will be interesting to see how city officials handle this issue.

PS: I would be in favor of extending the hours of operation for establishments downtown.

[Jaybee]

24 Hours doesn't mean that people need to be drinking into the wee hours of the night. And at real cities, people go to Chill-outs that don't have drinking (LOL - they have other forms to amuse themselves). And people drive to their destinations, it's not like Vegas where people are staying at a Casino and they walk up to their rooms. People can slowly leave after 2:00 AM.

I still have yet to hear a defensible position on this board as to why drinking hours need to be extended after 2:00 AM

[cwetteland]

^ I totally agree, and it's not an issue about whether I like the clubs. But high end condos and all night clubs are oil and vinegar. When all those thousands of new upscale residents move in they will want changes. If all the new residents were big Tabu fans they wouldn't be converting Lee's Lakeside to high-end Italian. Stand by for changes.

[bic]

24 Hours doesn't mean that people need to be drinking into the wee hours of the night.  And at real cities, people go to Chill-outs that don't have drinking (LOL - they have other forms to amuse themselves). And people drive to their destinations, it's not like Vegas where people are staying at a Casino and they walk up to their rooms.  People can slowly leave after 2:00 AM.

I still have yet to hear a defensible position on this board as to why drinking hours need to be extended after 2:00 AM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that you don't need to have people passed out on the curb at 5am to prove that you have a 24-hour city. For me, a 24-hour city means that people have options at all hours of the day-- 24-hour grocery stores, restaurants, maybe even a laundromat, etc. This also includes being able to stay out as long as you wish. Part of what makes New York City great is that you can stroll up to Times Square at 4 in the morning and it is still lit up like daylight and there are tons of people on the street. Granted, they may not all be the kind of people you'd like to surround yourself with, but you know what I mean.

When I go out to a bar or club, my night is usually ready to end around 2am. But that's just because I'm sort of conditioned to end it at around 2 because that's when the majority of places close here and in Boston. Occasionally, though, I would like to stay out until 3 or 4.....or maybe past that depending on how the night is going. I can do that in places like Las Vegas, Miami, or New York, but I can't do that here. For me, it's all about having the option to stay out later if I want to. Most of the time I won't take advantage of having a last call past 2am, but it'd be nice to know that I can.

When I went to France recently, I went out with friends (who live there) who began serious drinking at 5:00pm, bar hopped, rolled up to a club at 2:30am, and partied until 5:00am. Now that's a little extreme for my tastes, but it was a fun experience.

On the other hand, in Boston proper, all bars/clubs (even strip clubs) strictly close at 2:00am. The problem with this is that people don't really accomodate this rule and still go out at like 11pm-ish and the places don't really get going until after midnight. So you're left with about 2 hours of decent partying if you're lucky, after you just paid $15-20 to get in. Then at 2am, at the height of you having a good time, the music stops, the lights come on, you see how busted everybody looks with their cakey make-up and sweaty pits, there's a mad dash to the coat room, and you have to file out of tiny exits like cattle. Then everybody just congregates in the street to shoot the breeze or find a house party to go to. It's really quite frustrating.

Orlando isn't certainly that bad, and those are two extreme cases, but I would prefer it to fall closer to the category of the former scenario. Like I said before, it's all about being able to choose. That's what democracy is all about, right?

[Chief Eola]

I still have yet to hear a defensible position on this board as to why drinking hours need to be extended after 2:00 AM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still have yet to hear a defensible position on this board as to why bars should stop serving alcohol at 2:00 AM. Right now, the bars are the only thing that attract crowds downtown on a regular basis. If the position is that future residents will be irritated by the noise, then I'd be interested in hearing why so many people are planning to move downtown to be right in the middle or very close to the bar scene.

Have you ever been downtown on Orange Avenue late on a Friday or Saturday night? It's an exciting atmosphere that is unique to this area, and believe it or not, things just seem to get going around 2am and then the bars have to stop serving. I'm for extending the drinking hours, mainly just because I haven't heard any reason good enough to keep the 2am "last call" rule in effect.

[cwetteland]

^ I don't think it's because what's going on on Church and Orange ... I thinks it's about what they see in Thornton Park and want to expand upon it. Bistros and stuff. Little wine bars, Dexters and HUE. That sort of thing. They like the Publix and the movie house going in at the Plaza.

[GRS328]

This is quite an interesting conflict we have hit here - a classic catch 22. Honestly, I can see it from both sides. As far as 2 AM last call, I have been out downtown on a couple of occasions and it has snuck up on me. It's always kind of disappointing when you're having a good time, and then all of sudden the lights go on. That being said, I don't go out downtown nearly as much as I'd like to. If I did on a much more frequent basis, I really would have no justification for staying out past 2 all the time.

On the flip side, if I were living downtown, I would probably not be thrilled with the idea of extending the "last call" beyond 2 am, for all the same reasons that have already been posted. But on that token, if you're going to be living dt, you surely are aware there is going to be a livlier scene later into the night - it goes with the terrain.

As Jaybee pointed out, just because there is no liquor after 2 doesn't mean the establishments have to close at 2. Unfortunately though, that's essentially what happens, at least at most of the places I've been downtown, even the quieter ones. So that being said, I sympathize with bic's assertion that the feeling of a 24 hour city would be missing. Not that I assume extending drinking hours beyond 2 is the solution, though...

So here we are on this board, all of us in favor of a vibrant and exciting downtown core day and night, and we are arguing about how vibrant is too vibrant... irony is everywhere B)

[Jaybee]

The truth of the matter is that "24-hour" City is a catchy phrase. When it comes down to it, people want an "18-hour" city, regardless of whether it's Manhattan or Orlando. When you introduce residents, who are attorneys and young professionals, they don't want bratty teenagers pissing and barfing in the stairwells of downtown until 4:00 AM.

Having drunks on the streetcorners till 4:00 AM does not a 24-hour or cosmopolitan city make. And until you've been the person that actually had to manage this at a major city, you're arguement just simply doesn't hold water with me!

[prahaboheme]

I still have yet to hear a defensible position on this board as to why bars should stop serving alcohol at 2:00 AM. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see why someone really needs to defend this, but if you wish...

Extending downtown drinking hours will be lucrative for downtown clubs/restuarants/bars/lounges. Downtown would be that much more compelling to our tourists, who may not want to stop partying at 2am at PI or Citywalk (I know for a fact those Brazilian tourists aren't done at 2).

As for residents in downtown, do you think these condos are made out of plastic? Residents are not going to hear whats going on down at the street, and even if they do from time to time it comes with the territory. Its "suburban" thinking to assume that city dwellers are not going to tolerate noise, and if Orlando is going to hit the big leagues then its going to have to fend of nimbyism at some point (its been lucky so far). I live in a brownstone built in the 1850s (a lot less sturdy and soundproof than modern condo buildings) and my windows back up to the busiest road in the city (called Storrow Drive). Sometimes I wake up to horns, does that mean that I am going to beotch and complain and ask them to put up a sound barrier? NO. Of course not. It comes with the territory. I look at this in the same respect.

[bic]

I live in a brownstone built in the 1850s (a lot less sturdy and soundproof than modern condo buildings) and my windows back up to the busiest road in the city (called Storrow Drive).  Sometimes I wake up to horns, does that mean that I am going to beotch and complain and ask them to put up a sound barrier?  NO.  Of course not.  It comes with the territory.  I look at this in the same respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Things are way different in Boston than they are here, though. I lived on the mirror image of Storrow Drive--Memorial Drive--and yeah, I heard plenty of noise from cars and people walking by (and those horrible snow plows) and didn't care too much about it. But we're college kids, and Boston is a great big historically urban city with lots of ambient noise. It isn't the same case in Orlando. The only roofdeck parties you'll find in Boston are frat parties which often get shut down because of noise complaints. As such, I've never seen a bar with a roofdeck in Boston (though I know a couple exist away from the city).

Outdoor bars and roofdecks are much more common in Orlando, though..and there's a big difference between hearing ambient noises like occasional car horns or a random pedestrian shout from thumping music that can be controlled. Most of the developments currently proposed are far enough away from these nightspots that they won't be affected, but once more projects start being built closer to Orange Ave., I think there's a chance for some problems to arise. Right now, the only places that would be vulnerable to such noise would be Solaire, 55 West, and possibly Tradition Towers. 55 West would be right next to Lattitudes, which has an extremely popular roofdeck with loud music on Wednesday nights, so people on the lower floors on the east side of the building would definitely hear something. Hopefully understanding residents will move into these buildings and there won't be an issue.

[prahaboheme]

If the only major problem with a 4am last call were roofdecks, I think the laws could be modified to accomodate this. No, Boston doesn't have roofdecks generally, but New York city has many that I'm aware of.

[Chief Eola]

I don't see why someone really needs to defend this, but if you wish...

Extending downtown drinking hours will be lucrative for downtown clubs/restuarants/bars/lounges.  Downtown would be that much more compelling to our tourists, who may not want to stop partying at 2am at PI or Citywalk (I know for a fact those Brazilian tourists aren't done at 2).

As for residents in downtown, do you think these condos are made out of plastic?  Residents are not going to hear whats going on down at the street, and even if they do from time to time it comes with the territory.  Its "suburban" thinking to assume that city dwellers are not going to tolerate noise, and if Orlando is going to hit the big leagues then its going to have to fend of nimbyism at some point (its been lucky so far).  I live in a brownstone built in the 1850s (a lot less sturdy and soundproof than modern condo buildings) and my windows back up to the busiest road in the city (called Storrow Drive).  Sometimes I wake up to horns, does that mean that I am going to beotch and complain and ask them to put up a sound barrier?  NO.  Of course not.  It comes with the territory.  I look at this in the same respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Praha - I think you misread my post. I agree with everything you said - living downtown comes with the territory and I don't see any good reason to keep the 2am "last call" rule.

[bic]

Not to get too off-topic, but here's a picture I took from my room in 2002 on Memorial Drive. Can you spot your place Prahaboheme?

[prahaboheme]

Absolutely! If you look to the far right in the picture, you see the three exact towers (Warren towers). If you look at the left most tower and follow the windows directly down to the river, that is my browstone (205 Baystate, 5th floor).

[prahaboheme]

Praha - I think you misread my post.  I agree with everything you said - living downtown comes with the territory and I don't see any good reason to keep the 2am "last call" rule.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oops, sorry for misreading.

[JTG]

Having drunks on the streetcorners till 4:00 AM does not a 24-hour or cosmopolitan city make. And until you've been the person that actually had to manage this at a major city, you're arguement just simply doesn't hold water with me!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Chemmie]

What is worse, having ALL of the drunks leaving ALL of the establishments in downtown Orland at the exact same time or having the drunks leave whenever the hell they want, not ALL at the same time?

I view being a private owner of a bar the same as owning a home. You would find it unfair if the government told you that people had to leave your house by 2:00AM and say they don't have the right...

[cwetteland]

^ I do know that in owning a home, if the neighbors complain about noise after 10:00 pm the cops will come around and shut the party down.