Wishful thinking...

[davidks1977]

Hey there, I am a long time reader but my first time posting. First off, I appreciate all of the good downtown information I have learned from this forum.

I thought I would share an article I found on Jacksonville.com.... I mean, why not do it hear in Jacksonville?

Developer plans world's tallest condo in Miami

Take care,

Dave

[bobliocatt]

Our skyline is too small for a 1,200 footer. I'd rather see three new 400 footers or two 600 footers on the Northbank, instead.

[RiversideGator]

I think we definitely need a building in the 700 to 800 foot range to elevate the skyline a bit. We already have 2 600 footers. I also dont think we would have the same height restrictions of Tampa, Orlando or even Miami because our airports are more remote from downtown. By the way Lake, are you telling me you would turn down a 1000+ foot addition to the Jacksonville skyline??

[Urban_Legend]

I would turn down a 1000+ tower in the current skyline. I think it would totally dwarf all the other buildings, and it might have a "RenCen Effect", sucking all the office/condo/hotel/whatever space out of the market.

But who knows, if we keep building up, it might happen!

[RiversideGator]

The problem with the Detroit building (RenCen) is not the height, but the architecture. You can actually drive into that thing via an exit from the highway and never really enter downtown. It doesnt connect with the city at all. Detroit also faced some larger issues, such as demographics and the decline of heavy industry. I think a well-designed 1000 footer would fit into the Jacksonville skyline, but I agree it should probably be accompanied by maybe a couple of 800 footers. We will see what the future brings.

[RiversideGator]

By the way, here is an interesting article on the remake of the RenCen into a more user-friendly building:

http://www.freep.com/realestate/renews/arch6e_20050106.htm

[asonj23]

I think because Jax has something to prove that a 1,000 footer here would work and look great with the current skyline.

Now as far the the economic support necessary to justify it is concerned, we may be where we need to be in 5-10 years as long as the current resedential growth continues. All of the supposed ampty nesters and young buisness people are going to need a place to work downtown. I know living there, I wouldn't want to drive to the burbs (Southpointe, Deerwood) to make my living. The benefit of living down there should be that one could work there as well.

[Captain Obvious]

I also dont think we would have the same height restrictions of Tampa, Orlando or even Miami because our airports are more remote from downtown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are correct. Jacksonville's CBD has no official height limit. Many people forget this, but we already have a 1000+ foot broadcast antenna downtown (between the baseball stadium & Shipyards).

So, while I think it will be decades or generations before we get a ~1000 footer (if ever), if one were proposed, there would be no FAA/height limit issues at all.

[La Florida]

Who cares about a 1000 footer anyways??? As mentioned earlier, Jax needs a couple of more 600, 700 footers if anything. 1000 footers are nice but one just wont work in our skyline. Besides, most 1000 footers, as in the case of Miami's new proposal, tend to become eyesores...only amazing because of height, not design. Starting with the riverpointe development, jax needs to embrace more modern architecture to set itself apart from other citys in Florida.

[La Florida]

By the way, I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but...does anyone know when the bids are due for the JEA park land? When a selection is to be made?

[TheUrbanCore]

By the way, I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but...does anyone know when the bids are due for the JEA park land? When a selection is to be made?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bids are due May 17th. Don't know when the decision is made...

[La Florida]

To go along with the " why not in Jacksonville" list. Why not a Theme Park?

We have the land, easy access to interstates, roads,etc.....

[jjoshjl]

Arg.... Limit Fake Tourism Please....

I know a number of people will not like that statement, but People dont go to Orlando to see orlando, its for Disney/Universal. People like Miami because of the beaches. There are TOO MANY tourist cities in Florida as it is. That is too easy an answer to get more people here. Tourism is OK, but I dont think it should exceed 10% of the income for the City. Our Diversity has always been what makes recessions hit this area with less force. The moment you depend on Tourism as a main feature of your city, the moment you become a city that doesnt grow well with change. Jacksonville has a very UNIQUE feature in its diversity. Again, it is Ok to have SOME tourism, just not the level of everywhere else in florida. Build up our ports so we become a Shipping Mecca. Build up the CBD so we become a southern finacial powerhouse, build up the north and west side so we are a manufacturing workhorse. build up UNF and JU so we can increase the number of GRADUATE level students that actualy graduate from JAX. ALONG WITH THIS, build up some level of tourism. If we want to add a Six Flags fine, but dont let that be what we are know for. only that it is something that we have.

Sorry... I just see tourism as too simple an answer to growing cities in Florida. Let the other large cities be know for Tourism, Let JAX be know as a new New York or Chicago (just a lot Smaller) If we think small, we will stay small. TOO MANY people, even in these boards say oh...we can never compete with cities like Atlanta or Miami for _____. I Say, if we think like that we NEVER will. The South Eastern US is void of a truely great city. Atlanta or Miami have that title by Default only. Dont get me wrong, those are Nice Cities, but are they great cities. Why not make JAX that Great city of the south. (And not the Redneck South) We have a great reputation for fighting and getting what we want in JAX. (IE SB, JAGS, Cruises) Let us start fighting for the big dogs. Become a Bratty little upstart that attepts to compete with cities like Philly, and NY for Businesses. Mayors of the large cities will go "who do they think they are", at which point we respond "Let me show you". We CAN Compete with those larger cities, we just have to try.

Anyway, I am just tired of people saying we Cant do something. tourism will never get us to that level. all it will do is make us another Tampa.

Cheers

[FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER]

I think because Jax has something to prove that a 1,000 footer here would work and look great with the current skyline. 

Now as far the the economic support necessary to justify it is concerned, we may be where we need to be in 5-10 years as long as the current resedential growth continues.  All of the supposed ampty nesters and young buisness people are going to need a place to work downtown.  I know living there, I wouldn't want to drive to the burbs (Southpointe, Deerwood) to make my living.  The benefit of living down there should be that one could work there as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that a slow working up to a 1,000+ footer should happen rather than just out of the blue building one and shocking the skyline. As someone mentioned, a 1,000 footer now would really upset the make-up of our skyline; it might not shock as much if built on the Northbank which currently possesses the two tallest buildings in Jax; also, it would have to be built in a location to "fit in" perfectly with the existing buildings.

I think a better plan would be to gradually add more 600, 700, 800 and 900 footers in first, and then add the grand addition, the 1,000+ footer and maybe more. This way there is no shock to the skyline. I also think that this would need to be done on the Northbank as there is more empty and available land to do so. Again, these newer buildings leading up to the 1,000+ footer would have to be strategically placed in a planned order as to not upset or shock the current make-up and orderly appearance of the skyline.

Agree?

FLORIDAY SKYRISE ORDER

[La Florida]

^ So when are you running for mayor jjoshjl?? Thats exactly how i feel about Jacksonville. It has so much potential to become the Mecca of the south, or New York of the South, or the Jacksonville. I too want to see Jax have a name for itself and recognizable among other cities around the country. My only reason for mentioning a theme park is because ive heard rumors that jax was supposed to be the original home of Disney World, Busch Gardens, and a Six Flags as well but the city gov at that time did not approve. I do not want to see Jax follow the theme park craze like other cities, i just think a Six Flags like park would only add to the Jax experience not identity. But i do agree with you 100%, as long as we continue to think small, thats what we'll be.

[ATLman1]

I think that a slow working up to a 1,000+ footer should happen rather than just out of the blue building one and shocking the skyline.  As someone mentioned, a 1,000 footer now would really upset the make-up of our skyline; it might not shock as much if built on the Northbank which currently possesses the two tallest buildings in Jax; also, it would have to be built in a location to "fit in" perfectly with the existing buildings.

I think a better plan would be to gradually add more 600, 700, 800 and 900 footers in first, and then add the grand addition, the 1,000+ footer and maybe more.  This way there is no shock to the skyline.  I also think that this would need to be done on the Northbank as there is more empty and available land to do so.  Again, these newer buildings leading up to the 1,000+ footer would have to be strategically placed in a planned order as to not upset or shock the current make-up and orderly appearance of the skyline.

Agree?

FLORIDAY SKYRISE ORDER

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who would fill all of these buildings? That seems like a lot of buildings for a medium size city.

[jjoshjl]

I have a feeling my views on JAX developement are a little to radical for the average person. Not saying you guys dont, but I look at long range picture, (like 25-50 years down the road picture) most people either 1) dont want to look past the next election, or 2) dont want to spend the moeny needed TO make the changes. I appreciate the support La Florida, but i doubt ild get past the primaries...

(plus I wouldnt get elected for no other reason than a spell about as well as a monkey with a paint brush)

[ironchapman]

Jax is a great city. I'd like to see a denser skyline, too. The city needs a signature tower that is famous (like Empire State Building-NYC, Sears Tower-Chic, Transamerica Pyramid-SFr, BofA HQ-Charlotte, or Westin Peachtree-ATL).

P.S. Not that I think that it doesn't have potential, but Jax has a long way to go before it robs the title of NYC of the South from what I call the Big Three (Atlanta, Charlotte, and Miami).

Keep on building and promoting the city, it has too much potential to be forgotten.

[Urban_Legend]

jjoshjl, I loved your your previous post! I agree that it would be great for Jax's universities to expand, and for the shipping industry to grow (it already is!).

Jacksonville could become the following meccas:

Shipping

Financial

Military

Industrial

Higher Education? (long shot)

My, this thread became quite interesting.

[Captain Obvious]

Jacksonville could become the following meccas:

Shipping

Financial

Military

Industrial

Higher Education?

[ironchapman]

Like I said before, keep on working at promoting your city, but be careful, the "Big Three" provide quite a lot of competition.

I think that Jax should work on expanding the influence of it's ort. I know it's important, but you should work on making it even bigger and more ntionally famous. Jax has an ideal situation for a port, in land, wide harbor, and two sides to work with. Use 'em to all of their potential.

[I-275westcoastflorida]

Arg.... Limit Fake Tourism Please....

I know a number of people will not like that statement, but People dont go to Orlando to see orlando, its for Disney/Universal. People like Miami because of the beaches. There are TOO MANY tourist cities in Florida as it is. That is too easy an answer to get more people here. Tourism is OK, but I dont think it should exceed 10% of the income for the City. Our Diversity has always been what makes recessions hit this area with less force. The moment you depend on Tourism as a main feature of your city, the moment you become a city that doesnt grow well with change. Jacksonville has a very UNIQUE feature in its diversity. Again, it is Ok to have SOME tourism, just not the level of everywhere else in florida. Build up our ports so we become a Shipping Mecca. Build up the CBD so we become a southern finacial powerhouse, build up the north and west side so we are a manufacturing workhorse. build up UNF and JU so we can increase the number of GRADUATE level students that actualy graduate from JAX. ALONG WITH THIS, build up some level of tourism. If we want to add a Six Flags fine, but dont let that be what we are know for. only that it is something that we have.

Sorry... I just see tourism as too simple an answer to growing cities in Florida. Let the other large cities be know for Tourism, Let JAX be know as a new New York or Chicago (just a lot Smaller) If we think small, we will stay small. TOO MANY people, even in these boards say oh...we can never compete with cities like Atlanta or Miami for _____. I Say, if we think like that we NEVER will. The South Eastern US is void of a truely great city. Atlanta or Miami have that title by Default only. Dont get me wrong, those are Nice Cities, but are they great cities. Why not make JAX that Great city of the south. (And not the Redneck South) We have a great reputation for fighting and getting what we want in JAX. (IE SB, JAGS, Cruises) Let us start fighting for the big dogs. Become a Bratty little upstart that attepts to compete with cities like Philly, and NY for Businesses. Mayors of the large cities will go "who do they think they are", at which point we respond  "Let me show you". We CAN Compete with those larger cities, we just have to try.

Anyway, I am just tired of people saying we Cant do something. tourism will never get us to that level. all it will do is make us another Tampa.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And whats wrong with Tampa?

[bsutter2]

Yes, what is wrong with Tampa? Ive lived in Jax, Tampa, Orlando and Fort Lau., and I honestly prefer Jax the least. Besides a few cool looking towers and the St. Johns, I dont see anything that special about Jax.

[bobliocatt]

Imo, there's nothing wrong with the Bay Area. All of Florida's major major metro areas are unique in their own way.

I think the point, these guys were trying to make is for Jax to look within it's self, take pride and strive to take adavantage of its location, diversity, history and potential, instead of worrying about how its neighbors develop and if it can compete with them.

Copying what Tampa, Miami and Orlando have done won't make this city great, one promoting and building upon its self will.

[Urban_Legend]

Yes, I'm so sick of all these incredulous posts about city pride. Be proud of your own city, and stop worrying what others may say/think. The Jax forumers already went through their fair share of crap with those SuperBowl editorials, and hopefully, they learned to take it in stride.