Spartanburg Long-Range Transportation Plan (2025)

[goodbye]

The street I love to hate and one that desperately needs a diet is East Main Street between Converse and Pine. Its much too wide for the amount of traffic it carries. The city had wanted to narrow it a couple of years ago but SCDOT poo pooed the idea. I guess the "road diet" for this stretch of East Main is on hold but I hope it is narrowed.

I love to hate the portion that was given a diet, between Converse and Church. The zigzag pattern is ridiculously inappropriate, in my opinion.

[Spartan]

The serpentine style of that portion of Main Street was en vogue at the time. That is what happens when you let elected officials become planners and engineers. The Planning Dept and the consultants hired to do the work tried to tell council that they shouldn't do it. You can even go back to some of the old plans that were created that specifically state that it shouldn't be done. Council decided that it was the best way to allow traffic through the former pedestrian mall. Obviously it was a stupid decision and every plan since then has called for the removal and straightening of Main Street. If that were to happen you'd have sufficient room for parallel parking spaces and enough additional width for the sidewalks to allow for significantly more outdoor seating.

[Spartan]

Others that come to mind are:

Main Ave- Gastonia NC

Main St - Hendersonville NC

I'll also add that serpentine streets do serve a purpose in the right context. Main St in Spartanburg is not the right context for it. Streets can be calmed without curves.

[drexel]

Read this week where NC is going to add a midday train to the current Charlotte/Raleigh route. I believe SC, NC, and GA should push and fund additiional rail service between Atlanta and Charlotte. Wouldn't it be great to jump on a train and see a Brave's game. (not at 4:00 AM though) Also read where Greenville is discussing a ten year plan to have bus and light rail between Greenville, Clemson, Easley, Pickens, and GSP. Spartanburg should be a part of the plan. At the very least add SPARTA bus service to GSP that would connect with Greenlink (Greenville's transit). I know that NC has more money than SC, but it seems they put a priority on transportation. (and education)

[westsider28]

I absolutely agree that South Carolina needs to fund more rail service options (more trains, high-speed rail, etc). There is federal funding available (NC got $545 million) to expand rail service. Convenient rail service would increase tourism as well as take some pressure off our roads/interstates. Spartanburg (and Anderson, too) should definitely work to be part of an Upstate light rail service, if such a plan ever becomes reality.

I also agree that adding SPARTA bus service to GSP in the future should be a no-brainer.

[Spartan]

I think it's important to make the distinction between local and state and federal funding when it comes to the various rail efforts between cities and transit within cities

1st you have the Southeastern High Speed Rail (SEHSR), which is funded largely from federal dollars. South Carolina is next in line after they complete the rail to Charlotte, so it is going to appear that North Carolina is "ahead" of South Carolina when in reality it is more of a phasing issue (ie: extending the line from DC down to Charlotte, then further south).

2nd you have the state-level intrastate rail. NCDOT and NCRR have dedicated funding to provide that link between Charlotte and Raleigh. Their service is entirely separate from Amtrak, aside from operating on the same rail lines. SCDOT does not have the level of funding to provide a similar service with in our state. Currently SCDOT is acquiring abandoned railroad ROW for some future service or other use, and they conducting a feasibility study for intrastate rail. I'm not sure what phase this study is in, but I'm going to make it a point to look into it.

3rd is the local level. Transit is always funded locally. Greenlink and SPARTA are local transit agencies. While having local transit is a key part of having a regional rail system the funding sources are entirely different depending on where you are. In conservative South Carolina, you will never pass a tax to pay for transit. Even in North Carolina, the only county (for various reasons) that has a tax just for transit is Mecklenburg (Charlotte). In South Carolina, we have only one leader in transit, and that is Charleston. Charleston County has a sales tax to pay for roads (which are needed anyway) and lump transit in with it.

Columbia/Richland County is looking at a similar method, where they would increase the taxes in Richland County to pay for new roads, completing existing streets, and they would include transit funding within that.

I'm not sure what Greenlink is up to, as I haven't read up on them recently, but it's very likely a similar set up.

The only other county with something similar is York County, which has a sales tax just for road improvements (you may have heard the term "Pennies for Progress").

Spartanburg will have to do something similar to make transit work in a similar fashion to what Greenville is trying to do. It does make sense. The question is, how do you pay for it?

[GvilleSC]

I'm not sure what Greenlink is up to, as I haven't read up on them recently, but it's very likely a similar set up.

There was an article today in The Greenville News about a $250,000 study for Greenlink that was presented to Greenville City and County over the past week.

The study found and suggests a half cent sales tax for the County to fund transit. Half (or 1/4 cent tax) would go directly to Greenlink's operating budget. This will allow for an expansion of the current system that has 11 buses and 11 routes to a system that operates 61 buses on 24 routes. The rest of the tax would go to transit related projects, such as bike lanes, trails and sidewalks.

With the City's taking over of GTA and rebranding the system, building shelters, and revamping buses and the downtown transfer center, Greenlink now operates at on-time performance over 90%, and has increased ridership and fare revenues. The system is small, but more reputable.

The short term goals are these: reduce the 11 routes to 9 in order to increase frequency, and adding an on-call service. Extending the downtown trolley service, offer circulation routes in areas such as CU-ICAR, and an express service and a rapid bus line along Laurens Road. The long term plan includes two rapid bus service lines from Clemson to GSP and Fountain Inn to TR.

The half-cent sales tax would generate more than $35 million a year, which is more than five times the next best option ( a vehicle mileage tax).

A URS poll of 444 county voters showed 63% supported the proposal. The earliest date for it to be voted upon would be 2012, allowing plenty of time for it to be sold to the public.

EDIT: as it relates to Spartanburg, I think the city and county of Spartanburg should definitely follow suit and get some plans together. If Greenville can't act on its findings until 2012, that's an awfully long time to sit, wait and see. Being in the ready position to add a GSP route when Greenville does, will connect the Upstate in a way we've not seen in a very long time. Furthermore, Greenville is already looking into zoning changes along its first rapid transit line, and has already seen interest in "transit ready" developments along the route. Getting things together now, will prevent some unnecessary sprawl in the coming years, and get a community in a place of supporting transportation by riding it when it's available...

Edited June 9, 2010 by GvilleSC

[westsider28]

I noticed as I was driving downtown today that Broad Street has been resurfaced. The good news is that the street has been narrowed to two lanes with bike lanes on each side (as well as sporadic parallel parking).

I do have to mention an issue I have with these bike lanes as well as the new ones on Magnolia Street. The bike lanes appear to be very close to the parallel parking spaces. That is to say, if someone in a parked car opened their door, it would hit a passing cyclist. There is supposed to be a few feet of buffer area between parking and bike lanes to avoid this problem (Broad Street near Main in Greenville is a great example). And it's not like Broad or Magnolia aren't wide enough to accommodate this requirement; both streets have very wide travel lanes. It just bothers me that Spartanburg tends to skimp on things like this, when it wouldn't take much to do it right.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I am glad that the bike lanes are there. It's a step in the right direction, at least.

[Spartan]

It depends on who 'owns' the streets. Is it the City or SCDOT? My guess is SCDOT. They are notorious for being difficult to work with on things like this.

The term you're looking for is called "dooring." Cyclists are very aware of it, and it's something you just have to watch for if you're on the road. Ironically, the traffic volume and speed on Broad St is so low that I would question the need for bike lanes all together. Why not some reverse angle parking?

[westsider28]

Spartanburg is upgrading 35 traffic signals--mostly downtown--to improve traffic flow. The state is managing the federally funded $2.6 million project, with the city assisting in project coordination. It should take 18 months to 2 years to complete. Upgrades include new signal equipment and electronics, as well as some new signal poles and mast arms.

Herald-Journal article

I hope they add mast arm signals (or pole signals) in downtown wherever there is currently a wire hung signal. That would do a lot to improve the look and feel of downtown. I also hope they include pedestrian-friendly measures--like countdown crosswalk signals--at every intersection.

[Spartan]

This is a good thing for downtown. Mast arms are generally more attractive. I just hope they are able to keep them off of the sidewalks.

[westsider28]

I've noticed that there has been construction on Converse Street near The Hangar. It seems that they're building a solid (landscaped?) median there with a pedestrian refuge / crosswalk for First Baptist Church members. I also saw today that it looked like the striping is being changed in conjunction with the median to become one lane in each direction with bike lanes (at least from Main to St. John, it looked like). I was really hoping for parallel or angled parking on Converse Street. Didn't they set up Converse Street near the intersection with St. John so that there could be angled parking? I suppose if they extend the bike lanes the length of Converse, it would add some connectivity to the bike lanes on Barksdale Blvd.

One of the public's biggest gripes about downtown (accurate or not) is that there isn't enough parking. We can't continue to waste opportunities to add street-side parking spaces in downtown.

[hub-city]

When they reconfigured the intersection of converse and St. john, they put in curbing to allow for reverse andgle parking on the side opposite the church. However, when they striped it, they put parallel parking on the church side which made the road do a stupid curve right when you get to the intersection. i hope this fixes that, but we'll wait and see.

[Spartan]

Thanks for the update!

On-street parking is key in any urban area like downtown. You can't rely solely on parking lots. The pedestrian refuge island isn't really needed there, IMO, because there is an insignificant amount of traffic on Converse St except immediately after 1st Baptist services let out. But that's cool. The most important thing is that they are continuing the excruciatingly slow road diet process on Converse St.

[Sparkleman]

I know this may sound ridiculous to all of us forward thinkers here on the board, but the complaint I hear most from folks is that the parking sucks downtown. Most folks don't mind parking in a deck if there is a festival or something big going on but on regualar weekends when its not very crowded they are very hesitant to park in the decks. I think this comes due to thinking they are unsafe. These are mostly families with young/younger kids in tow. I can't say that I really blame them as I don't like being in the decks later than 9 pm or so. Believe it or not, there are some unsavory folks hanging out in and around the decks later at night and they are not policed that well.

Its a tough mindset to break unless you can assure people that downtown parking is safe and well lighted.

[roads-scholar]

I know this may sound ridiculous to all of us forward thinkers here on the board, but the complaint I hear most from folks is that the parking sucks downtown. Most folks don't mind parking in a deck if there is a festival or something big going on but on regualar weekends when its not very crowded they are very hesitant to park in the decks. I think this comes due to thinking they are unsafe. These are mostly families with young/younger kids in tow. I can't say that I really blame them as I don't like being in the decks later than 9 pm or so. Believe it or not, there are some unsavory folks hanging out in and around the decks later at night and they are not policed that well.

Its a tough mindset to break unless you can assure people that downtown parking is safe and well lighted.

It makes me sick to hear people complaining about the lack of downtown parking and the decks. The decks are clean, attractive, well-lighted, SAFE, and FREE at night and on the weekends! I've NEVER had a problem finding a parking place, regardless of the day or time of day. Downtown is NOT Westgate Mall with acres of asphalt nor do we want it to be. For gosh sakes, people complain about everything! I'm getting fed up with the whiners who don't have ANYTHING good to say about Spartanburg.

It's time for the whiners to stop complaining and offer substantive ideas and solutions. If they can't, they should move to Perfectville!

[Spartan]

I thinkthat people's problem is not this supposed lack of parking, but rather the lack of parking within sight of their destination. People seem unwilling to park up by the Dennys building and walk(gasp!) two blocks down to the square. I don't know why this is, but it is. People do it in Greenville like it's no big deal though, so I guess Spartanburg isn't ready to take the next step.

[westsider28]

I think there are a few reasons for the public perception of decks being unsafe or too far away. First is a lack of connectivity due to vacant storefronts. Greenville has restaurants and shops in nearly every building in the downtown area, this makes it feel easier and safer to walk around due to all the things that come with storefronts (lighting, more foot traffic, general sense of life).

Secondly is a lack of awareness that the decks are free on nights and weekends. Once again, Greenville has large, highly-visible signage that indicates that parking is free at those times. Also, the City of Greenville's website has extensive parking information. Spartanburg has done an extremely poor job of informing people of this. The garages themselves have no cost info on-site (except the Dunbar garage), and the City of Spartanburg's website has no parking information whatsoever. I think more people would park in the garages even during weekdays if they knew it was only $0.50 an hour.

I have no problems parking in the garages. However, I still think we need more street-side parking. As Spartan said, people prefer to park within sight of their destination. Or perhaps people feel like parking their car out on the street where people are walking by is safer. Anyway, we still have less on-street parking than Greenville, so we need to improve that. We have many opportunities to add some through road diets / reconfigurations.

[alias007]

I saw an article just now. Good news about the high speed rail. $4 million and $22 million grants.

http://www.examiner.com/transportation-in-atlanta/us-dot-awards-26-1-million-to-atlanta-charlotte-high-speed-rail

[westsider28]

Good luck getting the state of South Carolina to pitch in any money. I've been following HSR progress on the Raleigh and Charlotte UP boards, and they see SC as a roadblock to HSR progress. I hope these grants will help, but I'm sure they won't be enough to pay for the whole thing. Tons of infrastructure work is required to support HSR, including: doubling tracks where there are single tracks, building bridges or tunnels at road crossings (or permanently closing some road crossings), and upgrading/expanding railroad stations. Personally, I'm a supporter of HSR, but it will be difficult to convince many people in the Upstate/SC that it is worth the money.

[Spartan]

Many folks in North Carolina forget that the SEHSR has to build the section from Washington to Charlotte before the part from Charlotte to Atlanta gets built. The HSR through South Carolina is in a later phase of planning because it wont get built until after the NC portion.

I'm not all that concerned about it. Grants like the one mentioned are what can help make this thing happen sooner.

[new prospect]

I have an historical question about I-85 Business I hope someone on the forum can answer. I remember reading somewhere that one of the reasons for the awkward entrance and exit ramps and frontage roads along old I-85 (now I-85 Business) is that when I-85 was first built (1960's? 1970's?) the portion near Spartanburg used a previously existing US Highway. Was it US 29 or another US Highway? That is, was US 29's route changed at some point or has it always gone through downtown?

[spartanburgh]

US 29 has always gone through downtown. It was relocated from Main St. to St. John St. When the downtown Main St. was converted into the "Mall" I believe.

[Spartan]

Roads Scholar might have more to say about this one.

My understanding is that they rerouted 29 to an "interstate-like thing" and then converted it to a real interstate by adding signage on what is now I-85 Business Loop. I'll add that I don't know if that's accurate or not, but it would explain why the section between I-585 and I-26 is so horrible.

Since we're on this thread, has anyone heard anything about the Long Range Transportation Plan?

[new prospect]

The reason I ask is, there was a story in the Herald-Journal recently about the Dairy Dream at Hearon Circle moving to Boiling Springs so that a large gas station / convenience store can be built. The story said Dairy Dream had been at Hearon Circle since the 50's, and apparently there's been an historical marker since 1954.

http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=17454

I'm sure the overpass was added later but it's interesting to me that there was a rotary there that far back.

I haven't heard anything new about the Long-Range plan, but work on widening SC 9 near SC 292 (near where I live) is coming along. i heard it's supposed to be finished summer 2012.