Spartanburg Long-Range Transportation Plan (2025)

[roads-scholar]

15 hours ago, Spartan said:

A list of quite a few new roadway projects was published in the HJ:

https://www.goupstate.com/news/20190514/flush-with-funds-spartanburg-county-to-tackle-more-road-improvements

https://www.goupstate.com/news/20190514/11-planned-spartanburg-county-road-projects

 

‒ Double Branch Road intersection, widening, $2.2 million. The angle will be corrected at the intersection of Double Branch Road and Highway 110 and two culverts will be replaced. About 3 miles of Double Branch Road from Highway 110 north of Cowpens to Highway 221 will be widened.

‒ Kist Road bridge replacement, widening, $2.6 million. The Kist Road Bridge at Abner’s Creek will be replaced. It is about seven miles southeast of Greer. The deck, showing signs of wear due to massive truck traffic, will be replaced with a 90-foot long single span. About 3 miles of Kist Road from Highway 101 to Abner Creek Road will be widened.

‒ Melvin Hill Road widening, $2.7 million. About 5 miles of the road from Prison Camp Road near Interstate 26 to Highway 9 near the North Carolina line will be widened.

‒ Seay Road widening, $2.25 million. Nearly 2 miles of the road from Hanging Rock Road to Highway 9 will be extended from 16 feet to 24 feet.

‒ Snow Road reclamation, widening, $400,000. Nearly a mile of the road, from Abner Creek Road to Highway 101, will be restored and widened.

These are the four roads slated for future funding through 2024:

‒ Davis Road intersection, widening, $1.65 million. Sight for drivers will be improved at the intersection of Davis Road and Highway 417. A 2.4-mile stretch of Davis Road will also be widened from Highway 417 to the Highway 101.

‒ Lightwood Knot Road intersection, widening, $6.2 million. The intersection at Reidville Sharon Road will be upgraded to improve traffic flow. About 4 miles of Lightwood Knot Road from Highway 417 to Reidville Road will be widened.

‒ Victor Hill Road widening, $2.55 million. The road, which starts at J. Verne Smith Parkway and Danzler Road in the Greer area, will be widened.

‒ Zion Hill Road intersection, $1 million. The four-way stop at the intersection of Sloans Grove Road will be replaced with a roundabout.   This roundabout is nearly finished.  

 

[Spartanburg Dude]

50 minutes ago, roads-scholar said:

 

Actually, I think Zion Hill / Sloans Grove is not the round about that got put in at Fernwood Glendale / Clifton Glendale, but rather where the (have no idea of the name) old little white church is on Sloans Grove intersection of Zion Hill. What I don't see here and feel that it's REALLY needed is a light, or better yet a round about at Sloans Grove and Fernwood Glendale. Due to the way the streets are aligned, making the right onto Sloans Grove from FG heading North or making a Left from SG onto FG is absolutely horrible and dangerous. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Spartanburg Dude

[Spartan]

I thought we had another thread about transportation stuff... but due to a SC Supreme Court ruling (against Greenville County), Spartanburg County will repeal its $25 road fee and replaced it with a debt service levy that would add $12/ year to tax bills. The roads have to be paid for, so I guess its kudos to the County for acknowledging the need and funding it.

https://www.goupstate.com/story/news/local/2021/07/19/spartanburg-county-council-votes-repeal-unpopular-road-fee/8021595002/

[Sparkleman]

If the city or county are actually doing any real paving, I'd sure like to know about it so I could see where my dough is going. 

Growing up I remember see asphalt laying going on all the time by either the city/county. Now it must be subbed out or just not done and that's why people like me beotch about the roads all the time as there is little to no progress.

[Historyguy]

The city gets a portion of it, and every year, Council, as part of its budget, approves a list of city streets to be paved.  They approved the list on May 24 and the bid in June.  Attaching the list.  

I would like to see the paper look back at what the county spent over the last 15 years of those funds - to prove that they went where they were supposed to go.  But I don't really expect the paper has the staff to do that kind of research.  But, it went to county roads.  Not the major roads that everybody thinks about - like 29 or 221 or 176 - or 9 or 56...  SCDOT maintains those.  So I get the frustration people have with the fee and not seeing the arterial roads being paved - but it's because a different agency handles that.  

[Sparkleman]

I was thinking about this the other day as they one road paved in Hillbrook (Webber Way) is of such little importance I was shocked they even paved it as its a dead end road that houses some condos and townhomes. Surely Webber Rd would have been of more importance due to the traffic it receives but what do I know. If you look at the list closer it appears the city is trying to pave one road per intown neighborhood per year (of course Converse Heights gets 2 but that's nothing shocking at this point.

To me wouldn't the smart play be to pave all the roads in one neighborhood one year and then do another neighborhood the next year and so forth and so on. Surely it would be cheaper as you wouldn't have to move all that heavy equipment all over the city and could concentrate it in one place. It would most surely cost less money as well.

Just an idea but I am sure no one on council reads these boards.

[drexel]

I am surprised that East Main from Pine to the Denny's Building has not been repaved. I thought that was going to happen some years ago. Goes along with the East Main diet conversation. Those couple of blocks are really rough.  Also hope all the streets that the Rail Trail extension follows will be repaved and not just patched.  

[westsider28]

4 hours ago, Sparkleman said:

I was thinking about this the other day as they one road paved in Hillbrook (Webber Way) is of such little importance I was shocked they even paved it as its a dead end road that houses some condos and townhomes. Surely Webber Rd would have been of more importance due to the traffic it receives but what do I know. If you look at the list closer it appears the city is trying to pave one road per intown neighborhood per year (of course Converse Heights gets 2 but that's nothing shocking at this point.

To me wouldn't the smart play be to pave all the roads in one neighborhood one year and then do another neighborhood the next year and so forth and so on. Surely it would be cheaper as you wouldn't have to move all that heavy equipment all over the city and could concentrate it in one place. It would most surely cost less money as well.

Just an idea but I am sure no one on council reads these boards.

Webber Road is owned by SCDOT, so it's on a whole different priority list.

The City prioritizes repaving primarily based on road condition, which is the most practical and fair way to do it. Doing neighborhoods together would be unfair (how would you like being the last neighborhood?) and makes no sense as you'd be repaving roads that were paved only 2-3 years ago as well as the ones paved 20+ years ago.  It would only work if you're starting a city from scratch.  As things are, it's best to focus on the greatest need on a road-by-road basis.  And moving equipment is negligible as far as costs go.

20 minutes ago, drexel said:

I am surprised that East Main from Pine to the Denny's Building has not been repaved. I thought that was going to happen some years ago. Goes along with the East Main diet conversation. Those couple of blocks are really rough.  Also hope all the streets that the Rail Trail extension follows will be repaved and not just patched.  

I believe that section of East Main is also owned by SCDOT, which is why it hasn't been repaved or dieted.  I really wish the City would take ownership of all streets within downtown (except maybe Church and St John), so that it would be easier to reconfigure them (and likely quicker to repave).  The City did take ownership of DMA from W Main to Henry a few years ago, so they could diet and streetscape it.  That was highly successful, so I don't know why they've been reluctant to do that since.

For instance, the Rail Trail downtown extension could've been done much quicker, but the City chose to negotiate with SCDOT instead (which took years).  I know the City is reluctant to take on more maintenance responsibilities, but I think it would be worth it.  We could be much more flexible with street design.  And it's not like having the roads owned by SCDOT relieves the City from criticism, as most people don't know which street is owned by who. (We really need a map that shows that. Some cities show road ownership on GIS maps.)

[Sparkleman]

On 6/28/2022 at 1:51 PM, westsider28 said:

Webber Road is owned by SCDOT, so it's on a whole different priority list.

The City prioritizes repaving primarily based on road condition, which is the most practical and fair way to do it. Doing neighborhoods together would be unfair (how would you like being the last neighborhood?) and makes no sense as you'd be repaving roads that were paved only 2-3 years ago as well as the ones paved 20+ years ago.  It would only work if you're starting a city from scratch.  As things are, it's best to focus on the greatest need on a road-by-road basis.  And moving equipment is negligible as far as costs go.

I believe that section of East Main is also owned by SCDOT, which is why it hasn't been repaved or dieted.  I really wish the City would take ownership of all streets within downtown (except maybe Church and St John), so that it would be easier to reconfigure them (and likely quicker to repave).  The City did take ownership of DMA from W Main to Henry a few years ago, so they could diet and streetscape it.  That was highly successful, so I don't know why they've been reluctant to do that since.

For instance, the Rail Trail downtown extension could've been done much quicker, but the City chose to negotiate with SCDOT instead (which took years).  I know the City is reluctant to take on more maintenance responsibilities, but I think it would be worth it.  We could be much more flexible with street design.  And it's not like having the roads owned by SCDOT relieves the City from criticism, as most people don't know which street is owned by who. (We really need a map that shows that. Some cities show road ownership on GIS maps.)

I have lived in the Hillbrook neighborhood for 20+ years now and can only really recall 1 road being repaved in that amount of time (Hillbrook Dr) although there may be others. Since I grew up in Converse Heights and still have friends there,  I can say that whole neighborhood has basically been repaved in that amount of time. I would not have a hard time being the last neighborhood to get paved because that's what it has pretty much been.

I am not here to beotch, but to hopefully find some alternatives to the way the city has done business for the last 25 years or so. As everyone knows the roads in this city, county, and state are among the worst in the nation and no amount of tax dollars can seemingly fix it.

 

[westsider28]

14 minutes ago, Sparkleman said:

I have lived in the Hillbrook neighborhood for 20+ years now and can only really recall 1 road being repaved in that amount of time (Hillbrook Dr) although there may be others. Since I grew up in Converse Heights and still have friends there,  I can say that whole neighborhood has basically been repaved in that amount of time. I would not have a hard time being the last neighborhood to get paved because that's what it has pretty much been.

I am not here to beotch, but to hopefully find some alternatives to the way the city has done business for the last 25 years or so. As everyone knows the roads in this city, county, and state are among the worst in the nation and no amount of tax dollars can seemingly fix it.

Hillbrook west of Webber had significant repaving in 2017 and 2018.  The part east of Webber is highly fragmented when it comes to which properties are in city limits or not.  I believe most streets in this section are county-owned, and the county has been focusing mostly on repaving farm-to-market roads in rural areas.

I understand the frustration, and I'm sure there are operational efficiencies that could be improved.  But the main issues are: low-density sprawl doesn't adequately fund upkeep of its infrastructure, so despite the county and state's growth, we continue to fall behind. (see this great series from Strong Towns)  And funding is still lacking (the national gas tax hasn't increased since 1993), though the increased state gas tax is beginning to help things a bit (but it will still take a while, due to decades of deferred maintenance).

[Sparkleman]

Did anyone ever figure out what the county ever did with the $25 annual road tax that they collected for some 10+ years and finally cancelled?  That was another boondoogle that produced nothing significant as far as I could tell.

[djh1963]

It was suppose to be used for road repairs.

 

[westsider28]

5 hours ago, djh1963 said:

It was suppose to be used for road repairs.

It was used for road repairs, but it was a drop in the bucket.  Here's the webpage showing yearly reports of what the ~$3M per year was spent on.  There's no conspiracy or gross gov't waste; roads just cost a lot to repave, and we have over 1500 miles of county-maintained roads.

[Spartan]

The road fee was mostly used for bridge repairs I think? What I recall is that it was found unconstitutional and thus discontinued. As I recall, County Council "adjusted" property taxes to be able to continue the program a few years back.

The cost to build and maintain roads is incredibly expensive, and South Carolina does a terrible job funding anything to do with roads. The increased gas tax will help - but not solve - the 30sih years of back maintenance issues.