Malls

[Florida]

That's all they said; didn't go into details. I'm not working on the project either........I do work in SW and NE Florida. I could probably find out who the planner is for Pinnacle.

That said, I don't like how the project fronts I-10. I'd rather it front Mahan. Driving by on Mahan, you'd probably think it was just another small strip mall. I also don't like how it's so linear - it's going to discourage walking if anything. Nobody's going to want to walk from the theater to the stores at the other end.

I'm sure AiT and Mracca wouldn't mind the walk!

I do think it's a long Strip Mall also, but I differ with respect to the frontage... I like the fact that it fronts so Boldly along I-10. I think that will be an incredible way of saying, "Look at how Tallahassee is Growing" and "Come Shop here!". DCA needs to work out whatever issue they have with this developer, impose a fine for the premature site work, and allow this thing to move forward without prejudice. The footprint of this site plan will make a bold statement for that Exit (Old 31A/B ) and I'm sure catalyze more growth. This is a true test of whether Tallahassee is willing to grow, or simply talk about it.

[poonther]

While I'm all for growth in Tally town, I'm not for bad growth and that to me is exactly what this is. Let's blow out Exit 209A/B w/construction projects and growth, but please send this strip center back to drawing board and make it better. There is definitely room out there for a much better project. It doesn't have to be this long ugly serpent structure w/a few out-parcels. The alignment along I-10 says to the world, Tally is growing, but we damn sure don't know what we are doing.

[Florida]

While I'm all for growth in Tally town, I'm not for bad growth and that to me is exactly what this is. Let's blow out Exit 209A/B w/construction projects and growth, but please send this strip center back to drawing board and make it better. There is definitely room out there for a much better project. It doesn't have to be this long ugly serpent structure w/a few out-parcels. The alignment along I-10 says to the world, Tally is growing, but we damn sure don't know what we are doing.

I'm sure there will be revisions. But without seeing an elevation I'm no so quick to make a judgment. Who knows, from the ground looking ahead this might be the most beautiful thing you ever see. The Tallahassee mall, itself is very much a long snake-shaped mall.

[fivesfella]

I'm sure there will be revisions. But without seeing an elevation I'm no so quick to make a judgment. Who knows, from the ground looking ahead this might be the most beautiful thing you ever see. The Tallahassee mall, itself is very much a long snake-shaped mall.

And pigs might fly. I mean, we are talking about Moore and his history here.

[poonther]

I'm sure there will be revisions. But without seeing an elevation I'm no so quick to make a judgment. Who knows, from the ground looking ahead this might be the most beautiful thing you ever see. The Tallahassee mall, itself is very much a long snake-shaped mall.

Ah how I wish I had your optimist outlook instead of being the old curmudgeon that I am. On this one I won't need those elevations b/c it's how they are laying out the project on the land not the way the buildings are gonna look. Let's just call it what it is: DeVoe's Gigantic Strip Mall. It's embarrassing to even call it a lifestyle center. And surely you aren't defending this new project w/a pink 70's mall?

[TD]

And pigs might fly. I mean, we are talking about Moore and his history here.

Im with poon, I was thinking this was going to be grand. it looks lame to me

[seminole]

I was trying to save this for a really boring day, but here's the

PINNACLE AT CROSS CREEK SITE PLAN!!!!

WOW! I never expected it to be a project of this magnitude and it's certainly designed to get maximum exposure from the interstate. The residential sectors are such a pleasant surprise! I wonder how DCA would feel about this project if it was designed for State buildings?

[Florida]

I think many of you are being far too harsh. I think the design is compatible with what I've seen along the interstate throughout Florida, and it is largely what we need more of in Tallahassee. This is a SURE catalyst project in my opinion. I'm picturing the view from a car driving down the interstate, one that has never been to Tallahassee before... the impression may in fact attract someone to stop and eat, and perhaps buy a few things. A wonder of mine is, will this Mall have some Outlet stores? If so, the design would make more sense. I hope this project is approved and is allowed to move forward. I like the way Devoe is thinking with this one.

[Beukeboom]

From what my co-workers at DCA have told me about me about Devoe's project, it's in trouble.

I'm not surprised.

I still have a sneaky suspicion it'snever gonna happen,

[Go Gators]

I think many of you are being far too harsh. I think the design is compatible with what I've seen along the interstate throughout Florida, and it is largely what we need more of in Tallahassee.

I dont think we're being to harsh, I just think this is a "Good enough for Tallahassee" project or "at least Tallahassee is getting one" type project, which you yourself said we shouldnt lower our expectations for. It is ok, but in no way what I was picturing or what I think the others before me were thinking. So I'll go ahead and say it, par for the course for TLH.

[fivesfella]

I think the design is compatible with what I've seen along the interstate throughout Florida

Is that really a good justification for the project? I mean, Florida's pretty well known these days for some ugly, sprawling strip malls.

[jpl02]

Florida, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

It's sprawl, plain and simple. Not all growth = sprawl, but this does. It's out in the hinterlands of this town, away from most development. If it was built at the edge of the city but near substantial development (i.e. along Capital Circle), it would not be a bad development. But it's a leapfrog development.

And let's call it out for what it is: a shopping center. It's not anything particularly spectacular that would be a big loss to this town if it's not built, unlike something special (i.e. a zoo, airport, etc). Just another strip mall, which in that case, could be built in a number of places within the urban area.

Yes, I am libertarian, and yes, I am pro-growth. But look at it this way. DeVoe Moore has a right to pursue development of his property, and the citizens have an equal right to protest the thing and not have it built.

Oh yeah, and this thing will open up the sores placed in the community by Fallschase. You think Fallschase was controversial! The residents didn't like that, but they'll absolutely HATE this!

[Florida]

I dont think we're being to harsh, I just think this is a "Good enough for Tallahassee" project or "at least Tallahassee is getting one" type project, which you yourself said we shouldnt lower our expectations for. It is ok, but in no way what I was picturing or what I think the others before me were thinking. So I'll go ahead and say it, par for the course for TLH.

It's amazing to me how we can look at the footprint of a project and forecast what type of development it will be. I think we need to wait for more information to become available before we pass judgment on the overall proposal. I'm not saying we should lower our standards for anything, I want us to have the best. I've looked at all of Colonial's Pinnacle Properties and they are very tasteful and well received. I just don't think Tallahassee needs to continue to be the city that tries to pick everything apart that is proposed, let someone else's creativity and vision bloom for a change. Psycuda already warned us that this thing would be linear and perhaps not have the most efficient layout, but this is how all of the Pinnacle malls look, let's just not prejudice ourselves so soon without all of the information we can get.

[DaiDreamer5]

Mall and Lifestyle Centers are destination. What I am seeing here is not a destination. I will still go to the movies at the Tallahassee Mall, go to PetCo and the like near Governor's Square mall. I am very disappointed with this project. I figured it would be like the center I saw in Fayetteville. Instead it is just the same Old Navy/BBB/Pet store Strip Mall I have seen up and down the florida coast.

Edited to add to Florida's post. I am not looking at the foot print. I am looking at the anchor stores. I assumed there will be more Mall-like stores. Instead there are stores that I will park go into, get what i need and leave. No reason to linger. I need cat food. I don't need to go to the sporting goods store.

Where is this place again?

[Florida]

Is that really a good justification for the project? I mean, Florida's pretty well known these days for some ugly, sprawling strip malls.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People may speak down about our state's abundance of strip malls, but they also flock to them. My point was that strip malls are a Florida tradition, and while it may not be our desire to have "yet another one" as some have already labeled this Life-Style Center, this one, as seen through my eyes, may be the thing we need to help Tallahassee better identify with other communities around our great state.

[Florida]

Florida, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

It's sprawl, plain and simple. Not all growth = sprawl, but this does. It's out in the hinterlands of this town, away from most development. If it was built at the edge of the city but near substantial development (i.e. along Capital Circle), it would not be a bad development. But it's a leapfrog development.

And let's call it out for what it is: a shopping center. It's not anything particularly spectacular that would be a big loss to this town if it's not built, unlike something special (i.e. a zoo, airport, etc). Just another strip mall, which in that case, could be built in a number of places within the urban area.

Yes, I am libertarian, and yes, I am pro-growth. But look at it this way. DeVoe Moore has a right to pursue development of his property, and the citizens have an equal right to protest the thing and not have it built.

Oh yeah, and this thing will open up the sores placed in the community by Fallschase. You think Fallschase was controversial! The residents didn't like that, but they'll absolutely HATE this!

It's fair to disagree. That's why we're all here sharing our thoughts.

It is definitely sprawl, I'm not debating that. But I'm not sure I'd qualify this as Leap Frog with what we've already go going on in that area. Summit East is across the street just east of this project site, a new Hotel is being built across the street from it, a Golf Course (Driving Range) is across the street, two restaurants, another major shopping center, Vineyard Publix, is across the street, Tallahassee RV Camp is next door, as well as several churches and two major highways border this project site. I could argue this as infill development and technically be correct. Now, if we're prepared to protest this development because it is sprawl, then we're ready to say Tallahassee should cease to grow because Welaunee Plantation, one of the largest PUDs to be proposed for our city, is in the same area, probably going a bit further east, and we've all been singing its praises. To many who did not grow up in Tallahassee or on this side of town, yeah, this is hinterlands, but understand a great chunk of Tallahassee's population lives in this area, many great schools and neighborhoods are out this way, and for many, this is the convenience they've long waited for, I know my family is excited about it.

Sure its a lifestyle center, therefore it is a shopping center. And no Tallahassee wouldn't wither away without one, but this would certainly enhance a portion of this community largely seen as "full of potential".

The residents that didn't like Fallschase wouldn't like anything new, so I'm not very concerned about their often stubborn feelings.

[fivesfella]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People may speak down about our state's abundance of strip malls, but they also flock to them. My point was that strip malls are a Florida tradition, and while it may not be our desire to have "yet another one" as some have already labeled this Life-Style Center, this one, as seen through my eyes, may be the thing we need to help Tallahassee better identify with other communities around our great state.

And here we come down to it. Does Tallahassee want to be just another sprawled out, ugly, strip mall infested south Florida-style burg, or do we want something more? Are people really flocking to Florida mid-range strip malls these days? You know, there are many reasons we're losing tourist dollars, and one is that they have Gaps and Bed, Bath, and Beyond stores back at home.

All signs, from developer to design, fail to raise much hope for something decent. And, of course, we'll have to put up with Moore whining the whole time because throwing money at the right people doesn't allow him to skip over the process quickly enough.

[Go Gators]

It's amazing to me how we can look at the footprint of a project and forecast what type of development it will be. I think we need to wait for more information to become available before we pass judgment on the overall proposal. I'm not saying we should lower our standards for anything, I want us to have the best. I've looked at all of Colonial's Pinnacle Properties and they are very tasteful and well received. I just don't think Tallahassee needs to continue to be the city that tries to pick everything apart that is proposed, let someone else's creativity and vision bloom for a change. Psycuda already warned us that this thing would be linear and perhaps not have the most efficient layout, but this is how all of the Pinnacle malls look, let's just not prejudice ourselves so soon without all of the information we can get.

I dont think we're judging the quality of the stores that will be in it, but more so the design of the development. Most lifestyle centers I have been to either make a "U" around the parking lots for easy navigation, or are enclosed, such as the Winter Park Village, with the parking on the outer edges.

That interchange will be ironic, from the quote of Tallahassee on Lost. Tallahassee is nothing but a bunch of strip malls and Waffle Houses.

Sure its a lifestyle center, therefore it is a shopping center. And no Tallahassee wouldn't wither away without one, but this would certainly enhance a portion of this community largely seen as "full of potential".

It may fit the minimal qualifications to be determined a lifestyle center, but its a glorified strip mall at this point.

[Florida]

Mall and Lifestyle Centers are destination. What I am seeing here is not a destination. I will still go to the movies at the Tallahassee Mall, go to PetCo and the like near Governor's Square mall. I am very disappointed with this project. I figured it would be like the center I saw in Fayetteville. Instead it is just the same Old Navy/BBB/Pet store Strip Mall I have seen up and down the florida coast.

Edited to add to Florida's post. I am not looking at the foot print. I am looking at the anchor stores. I assumed there will be more Mall-like stores. Instead there are stores that I will park go into, get what i need and leave. No reason to linger. I need cat food. I don't need to go to the sporting goods store.

Where is this place again?

It was great bumping into you yesterday. Hope you enjoyed your meal!

Destination is the key word, and that's what this will be for many people who live within reach of this, and for many traveling the Highways through our city. No other major shopping area will front I-10 the way this will, no other will offer the abundance of dining options as this one which includes a total of 13 restaurant pads 6,000+ sq.ft. Can you imagine 13 new restaurants in close concentration anywhere else in this city? Destination! C'mon, this is the mother of destinations!! This will be the ultimate stop along I-10 through Florida for someone looking to eat, not to mention the huge population in that area. This would truly boost Rick Kearney's efforts to bring people into Summit East, business travelers doing business with his park will no longer have to settle for the few options that are available in the immediate area around the park, they'll have this large center to flock to, for not only food, but for entertainment, reading, and shopping as well.

I see two anchor stores in the footprint, where I was hoping to see 3 or 4. We can already figure one is going to be Dillards and the other rumored to be a JCPenny's. But things always change, and its still a bit early. That's why I'm trying to wait to see what we're working with first ...

[Go Gators]

An example of my previous post:

http://www.wintergardenvillage.com/shopping.html

[Florida]

And here we come down to it. Does Tallahassee want to be just another sprawled out, ugly, strip mall infested south Florida-style burg, or do we want something more? Are people really flocking to Florida mid-range strip malls these days? You know, there are many reasons we're losing tourist dollars, and one is that they have Gaps and Bed, Bath, and Beyond stores back at home.

All signs, from developer to design, fail to raise much hope for something decent. And, of course, we'll have to put up with Moore whining the whole time because throwing money at the right people doesn't allow him to skip over the process quickly enough.

No one wants sprawl, but it is the reality of growth. Tallahassee has done a better job than most at developing land that is continuous. This is no different. I'm not sure this will be a mid-range strip mall.... I don't think that has been established, yet it seems to be more of the opinion of this board without full disclosure of all of the information.

The signs from Colonial mall properties is what I look at. DeVoe is the money behind the operation, but Colonial is the reputation, and if you look at their list of projects, especially their Pinnacle projects, of which there are about 5 or 6, you'll see these are respectable shopping destinations.

[Florida]

I dont think we're judging the quality of the stores that will be in it, but more so the design of the development. Most lifestyle centers I have been to either make a "U" around the parking lots for easy navigation, or are enclosed, such as the Winter Park Village, with the parking on the outer edges.

That interchange will be ironic, from the quote of Tallahassee on Lost. Tallahassee is nothing but a bunch of strip malls and Waffle Houses.

It may fit the minimal qualifications to be determined a lifestyle center, but its a glorified strip mall at this point.

It will be even more ironic that this is being built across the street from a Waffle House. Perhaps the producers of the show could come after this mall is built and film an episode here.

I've been saying this about Lifestyle Center malls all along, I don't prefer them to traditional malls, and to me they are ALL glorified strip malls. But destinations non-the-less.

[Go Gators]

I've been saying this about Lifestyle Center malls all along, I don't prefer them to traditional malls, and to me they are ALL glorified strip malls. But destinations non-the-less.

I dont know, I hope youre right. But I dont see people taking a weekend to come to Tallahassee and this being the reason for it. If Im wrong, all the better, but I just dont think (judging by the original site plan) that it has that kind of mojo.

And I agree, it would be hilarious if Lost used that area for a flashback/forward for one of their episodes! haha

[Florida]

I dont know, I hope youre right. But I dont see people taking a weekend to come to Tallahassee and this being the reason for it. If Im wrong, all the better, but I just dont think (judging by the original site plan) that it has that kind of mojo.

And I agree, it would be hilarious if Lost used that area for a flashback/forward for one of their episodes! haha

I'm not sure what to expect until we find out who the retailers/restaurants will be. I more expect to be able to pull people off of I-10 for a few minutes to spend a few dollars than draw people from around the region to this place. But my hope is that we've got some really strong stores that can cast a wide net.

[poonther]

It's amazing to me how we can look at the footprint of a project and forecast what type of development it will be.

Uh, I don't think it's that amazing since it's how I use to earn my living for over ten years doing this very exact thing.

My harsh critique comes from the fact that we were told this would be a lifestyle center development. Plain and simple is not going to be that. It will be a very fine looking regional power shopping center. It will look very much like Colonials centers in Alabaster and the one going up in Fultondale. Both of which are in B'ham suburbs and I've seen both. I think Colonial is actually submitting a better plan for the Pinnacle at Gulf Shores than what they are proposing here.

Many of their centers have a JcPenny in them. I wonder if they will try to lure them from the disco mall if Dillard's chooses Fallschase over Pinnacle. If you want a feel for what tenants they will have here, look at the stores that are at their existing properties in Alabama and that should give us some idea. If this development can't lure a big name anchor from the get-go, what B'boom has been saying all along may ring true.