Gaines Street

[cityboy05]

Umm, csmurphy8885 are you ok because you also have me worried.

[Florida]

Surely he is right though... Tallahassee needs to grow up. I've always viewed this as a well educated, environmentally sensitive community and the smartest thing for us to do is to encourage dense, high-rise developments in our downtown area.

A downtown should be the most Urban Area in any community. This is the place where trees and shrubs should yield to buildings, downtowns are business neighborhoods. This is not to say a downtown should become a cement jungle, greenspace is important.

Looking to the future I hope people will begin to realize those people who will be living downtown are consuming less fuel in traveling, saving money on home repair, yard maintnance, car maintnance, and spared the excessive hours spent in traffic. Surely I hope downtown Tallahassee will begin to again draw in highpaying jobs of a diverse nature, in addition to cultural attractions, and more homes.

[stjoe]

I agree with the density being positive enviormentally ONLY with appropriate parks, green space, nature reserves. Density by itself is NOT environmenally sensitve. Tokyo is dense......basically 15 Million humans squeesed into a concrete jungle...nothing good for the environment there.

[Florida]

^ which is why I made it a point to mention the importance of greenspace.

[Florida]

St. Joe what about the Marriott Residence Inn is cheap to you? We all know its not an upscale hotel, but the renderings are nice.

Rendering Added for Illustratuion:

[bobliocatt]

^He probably means its cheap because its not unique. Its basically the same stucco building they pop up. next to the interstate in every other city.

A part of me wishes more effort was put into the corner, since the intersection is a very important and visual spot for the Gaines Street Corridor.

[stjoe]

^He probably means its cheap because its not unique.  Its basically the same stucco building they pop up. next to the interstate in every other city.

A part of me wishes more effort was put into the corner, since the intersection is a very important and visual spot for the Gaines Street Corridor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thelakelander nailed it. That is a very visable cornor...perhaps the corner stone...and they put a typically stucco hotel on it. It is average at best and sets the tone for the area as nothing special at all. The COT just doesn't know what it is doing. I wish I was wrong here. I want Gaines Street to succeed at being something special like Franklin Street in Chapel Hill, etc. But again, the COT took something that is valuable with high hopes but the implementation was average to poor at best.

[Florida]

^You are wrong here St Joe... the City of Tallahassee has permitted a good project in an ideal location. We all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and surely if you don't think this building is beautiful, as I and I'm sure many others do, you must admit it is atleast inviting and lively meshing well with the intent of the corridor's purpose -- to entertain.

[stjoe]

^You are wrong here St Joe... the City of Tallahassee has permitted a good project in an ideal location. We all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and surely if you don't think this building is beautiful, as I and I'm sure many others do, you must admit it is atleast inviting and lively meshing well with the intent of the corridor's purpose -- to entertain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, you just disagree with my opinion. There is a difference.

Why must I admit a stuco hotel that are a dime a dozen in all mid sized cities and above will be inviting and lively? How does a hotel bring in entertainment? Sorry, you are grasping big time. The city wasted a prime spot...period.

[Florida]

Money talks... and the developer had it to pay the City for this property. Stucco has been used on many quality buildings throughout Florida, and I think it is being used here on this project to reflect the fact that we are the Florida Capital. Nothing is wrong with us taking on the look of our own state.

There could be many reasons this developer is choosing to use stucco, the first of which that comes to mind is the ulimited color choices one can use with Stucco as opposed to brick or some type of marble. This color will add to the vibrant nature of this street corner. "IMHO" it wouldn't look fitting for an entertainment district as I've see them, to have an elegantly styled brick building fronting Gaines Street so closely in this University Transition area. Surely if the building was elegant, the student population in this corridor wouldn't feel as welcome as they might with the design of this marriott.

[bobliocatt]

Money talks... and the developer had it to pay the City for this property. Stucco has been used on many quality buildings throughout Florida, and I think it is being used here on this project to reflect the fact that we are the Florida Capital. Nothing is wrong with us taking on the look of our own state.

This is where the city needs to have had a vision for future uses along the corridor and stick to its guns. For example, that would have been a great spot for the Preforming Arts Center.

There could be many reasons this developer is choosing to use stucco, the first of which that comes to mind is the ulimited color choices one can use with Stucco as opposed to brick or some type of marble. This color will add to the vibrant nature of this street corner. "IMHO" it wouldn't look fitting for an entertainment district as I've see them, to have an elegantly styled brick building fronting Gaines Street so closely in this University Transition area. Surely if the building was elegant, the student population in this corridor wouldn't feel as welcome as they might with the design of this marriott.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe me the stucco facade has nothing, and I mean nothing, to do with anything in Tallahasse or Florida. Its being used, bceause its a cheap building material and saves the developer money. This is the same cheap material used on cheap run-of-the-mill commercial projects ranging from fast food joints to the office building in sitting in right now. That same hotel, stucco, layout and all exist in suburban Orlando, Miami and just about every other city with a Marriott chain.

With that said, I think its a nice project for the corridor, just because its new investment in what was once a decaying area, but its definately not something to anchor an entertainment and cultural based district.

[Florida]

Why am I not surprised to have the lakelander take an opposing view point. Where the performing arts center is concerned, this property was recently sold in the wake of a sight search for the Performing Arts Center. Surely if the city thought this parcel would be practical for use as a site for the performing arts center it would still have it in "inventory" so to speak. The truth is, the city of Tallahassee is sticking to its guns in making way for this mixed use hotel project that will be located at this intersection. In the Gaines Street Revitalization plan a similar building was illustrated at a similar intersection, made of similar materials and similar colors to show the potential of this project. When something as close in looks as this project is came along its a good thing the city was able to coordinate the sale of the land so quickly.

I've been many places, and I've seen many buildings constructed of Stucco, and I believe it is far more respectable than many other materials the builder could have chosen, namely panel and siding. Brick would be my preference but I'm not paying for the building, nor do I think it would allow for the same colorful looks.

With that said, this is a nice project not only because it is new investment in an area that was once abandoned and blighted, but because its use will benifit the patrons of the corridor namely the universities for graduations, and sporting events just across the way at the civic center, and Doak Campbell stadium just down the road.

[stjoe]

This is where the city needs to have had a vision for future uses along the corridor and stick to its guns.  For example, that would have been a great spot for the Preforming Arts Center. 

Believe me the stucco facade has nothing, and I mean nothing, to do with anything in Tallahasse or Florida.  Its being used, bceause its a cheap building material and saves the developer money.  This is the same cheap material used on cheap run-of-the-mill commercial projects ranging from fast food joints to the office building in sitting in right now.  That same hotel, stucco, layout and all exist in suburban Orlando, Miami and just about every other city with a Marriott chain.

With that said, I think its a nice project for the corridor, just because its new investment in what was once a decaying area, but its definately not something to anchor an entertainment and cultural based district.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great points by thelakelander....I agree completely.

[Florida]

BTW... I believe that will be Brick used for the Ground Floor level.

[DDarren]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, I think I really have to agree with TaureanJ on this one. Compared to a lot of the buildings in Tallahassee stucco would look just fine. The Mariotte Hotel does improve the entertainment aspect because of the events going on there. If you all haven't noticed, the Holiday Inn on Tennessee attracts quite a bit of attention b/c of the events put on there. Not a week goes by where I don't hear something going on there. I don't think Mariott will be any different. The pictures I have seen of Mariott I have liked. I feel that most of the buildings in this city are boring, just borrowing on what is taught in traditional Architecture classes. This hotel shows some personality and while it may not be accepted in the mainstream architecture world, I like it because it suits its own needs and the needs of the area to have a building like that. Lakelander and St Joe, you two really need to listen to what TaureanJ is saying cuz this guy knows what he's talking about.

[stjoe]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, I think I really have to agree with TaureanJ on this one.  Compared to a lot of the buildings in Tallahassee stucco would look just fine.  The Mariotte Hotel does improve the entertainment aspect because of the events going on there.  If you all haven't noticed, the Holiday Inn on Tennessee attracts quite a bit of attention b/c of the events put on there.  Not a week goes by where I don't hear something going on there.  I don't think Mariott will be any different.  The pictures I have seen of Mariott I have liked.  I feel that most of the buildings in this city are boring, just borrowing on what is taught in traditional Architecture classes.  This hotel shows some personality and while it may not be accepted in the mainstream architecture world, I like it because it suits its own needs and the needs of the area to have a building like that.  Lakelander and St Joe, you two really need to listen to what TaureanJ is saying cuz this guy knows what he's talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a matter of opinions...not facts. Myself, and perhaps Lakelander feel one way...you and Tauren another. Not right or wrong just different opinions. We will see if the city makes Gaines Street like something on Franklin Street in Chapel in or 7th street in Austin. I would gladly take any bets on that one though. I think the COT is only capable of building another Tenn. Street (ie urban blight with fast food restaurants, etc). ONly time will tell.

[Florida]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, I think I really have to agree with TaureanJ on this one.  Compared to a lot of the buildings in Tallahassee stucco would look just fine.  The Mariotte Hotel does improve the entertainment aspect because of the events going on there.  If you all haven't noticed, the Holiday Inn on Tennessee attracts quite a bit of attention b/c of the events put on there.  Not a week goes by where I don't hear something going on there.  I don't think Mariott will be any different.  The pictures I have seen of Mariott I have liked.  I feel that most of the buildings in this city are boring, just borrowing on what is taught in traditional Architecture classes.  This hotel shows some personality and while it may not be accepted in the mainstream architecture world, I like it because it suits its own needs and the needs of the area to have a building like that.  Lakelander and St Joe, you two really need to listen to what TaureanJ is saying cuz this guy knows what he's talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^I Like this guy!!!!!!

[DDarren]

This is a matter of opinions...not facts.  Myself, and perhaps Lakelander feel one way...you and Tauren another.  Not right or wrong just different opinions.  We will see if the city makes Gaines Street like something on Franklin Street in Chapel in or 7th street in Austin.  I would gladly take any bets on that one though.  I think the COT is only capable of building another Tenn. Street (ie urban blight with fast food restaurants, etc).  ONly time will tell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, this is something that been debated most this forum. I noticed Lakelander was about to post a reply but then changed his mind. This forum is to discuss our opinions, and I would love to hear what you and Lakelander really think.

[bobliocatt]

This is a matter of opinions...not facts.

[Florida]

This is a matter of opinions...not facts.  Myself, and perhaps Lakelander feel one way...you and Tauren another.  Not right or wrong just different opinions.  We will see if the city makes Gaines Street like something on Franklin Street in Chapel in or 7th street in Austin.  I would gladly take any bets on that one though.  I think the COT is only capable of building another Tenn. Street (ie urban blight with fast food restaurants, etc).  ONly time will tell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you call Thomasville Road where beautiful trees line the roadway, where lovely neighborhoods have sprouted up along side streets, where business are thriving along the corridor and the community continues to grow and prosper. Anyone who has driven down that road into the City of Tallahassee knows thats a beautiful street and its one we are very proud of.

Look at Blairstone Road... yeah it took forever to build, but golly it sure is a nice road, and a wonderful drive if I might add.

Look at East on 90 at Mahan where you've got a well planned medical corridor blooming. All along the way beautiful crape merdles trace the road.

I think you should show a little more confidence in your city or atleast get involved in some of the citizen advisory committees. Surely if you don't like the way the work is being done around here you should step up and make a change St. Joe.

[Florida]

It is a matter of opinion, but its a fact that the use of stucco, in this particular project, has more to do with the developer cutting construction costs than it does with enhancing Gaines Street, which historically speaking btw, has had most of its older buildings constructed of metal and brick. 

As I said earlier its a decent project that will enhance Gaines Street.  However, how is what you mentioned in this statement any different from other hotels in Tallahassee?  My whole agrument is only based on the city dreaming that Gaines will one day become this vibrant entertainment oriented strip in the future. 

If this is the case, selling what's basically the prime vacant spot on this strip, to a hotel and allowing them to build without making the project uniquely flavored for corridor isn't the best move, imo.  The best move would have been to have used this lot for public destination entertainment oriented uses (ex. interactive museum, trendy retail/eateries with sidewalk dining, performing arts center, etc), that could have served as a central anchor and gathering spot for the corridor.

The Holiday Inn on Tennessee is a bad example, if we're talking about making Gaines a vibrant entertainment oriented atmosphere like 6th Street in Austin, 7th Avenue in Ybor, Main Street in Ann Arbor or The Flats in Cleveland. 

Btw, what's so different about this hotel than any other Marriott chain other than the fact that its on a condensed lot?

Btw, welcome to the forum

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^What a nice way to welcome the new guy. I think what he was trying to say is the Holiday Inn is able to draw in a crowd with their meeting rooms and dining venues. Aside from that... I believe you mentioned this corridor would be better served with an eatery of some sort that the public can use and I offer the developer still plans a restaurant for the ground floor and some additional retail as well, so all hope is not lost.

The fact that the developer even propsed this project has to do with Enhancing the corridor despite what he builds the project with. We are complaining as if the developer is spending taxpayers money.

[stjoe]

"As I said earlier its a decent project that will enhance Gaines Street. However, how is what you mentioned in this statement any different from other hotels in Tallahassee? My whole agrument is only based on the city dreaming that Gaines will one day become this vibrant entertainment oriented strip in the future.

If this is the case, selling what's basically the prime vacant spot on this strip, to a hotel and allowing them to build without making the project uniquely flavored for corridor isn't the best move, imo. The best move would have been to have used this lot for public destination entertainment oriented uses (ex. interactive museum, trendy retail/eateries with sidewalk dining, performing arts center, etc), that could have served as a central anchor and gathering spot for the corridor."

Agree 100%

^What a nice way to welcome the new guy. I think what he was trying to say is the Holiday Inn is able to draw in a crowd with their meeting rooms and dining venues. Aside from that... I believe you mentioned this corridor would be better served with an eatery of some sort that the public can use and I offer the developer still plans a restaurant for the ground floor and some additional retail as well, so all hope is not lost.

The fact that the developer even propsed this project has to do with Enhancing the corridor despite what he builds the project with. We are complaining as if the developer is spending taxpayers money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A restaurant in a stucco Marriott hotel is NOT going to bring the same vibe that places like Franklin Street in Chapel Hill or 7th Street in Austin bring. That just isn't a very grand vision at all. This will do little to make Gaines STrett a " vibrant entertainment oriented strip in the future. "

[cityboy05]

I respect all of your guys opinions but come on some of your guys act like COT just totally srewed up. I think the things the city is trying to do is wonderful. All we need to do now is to wait and see what happens. I am pretty sure everything will go great! What is wrong with the city trying to kill a bird with 2 stones, or should i say 3?

[bobliocatt]

^What a nice way to welcome the new guy. I think what he was trying to say is the Holiday Inn is able to draw in a crowd with their meeting rooms and dining venues. Aside from that... I believe you mentioned this corridor would be better served with an eatery of some sort that the public can use and I offer the developer still plans a restaurant for the ground floor and some additional retail as well, so all hope is not lost.

LOL, welcome to the forum, with baptism by fire, kind of like whoever will be FSU's starting quarterback this season against Miami.

Seriously though, I mentioned the Holiday Inn as a bad example because it does not enhance the street or encourage people to get out and stroll the sidewalks, which is a critical component of the Gaines Street plan. I also agree that all is not lost with this project (see we agree on something). The implementation of street retail and dining on this corner is a must.

The fact that the developer even propsed this project has to do with Enhancing the corridor despite what he builds the project with. We are complaining as if the developer is spending taxpayers money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not really complaining , I'm just stating that in the grand scheme of things, this lot had the potential to house something much larger and critical to the success of turning Gaines into a popular entertainment oriented corridor. If that's not the goal, then I'll admit, I'm off here by a mile.

[Florida]

^what he means to say is kill 2-3 birds with one stone. You get his point!