The Avenues & St. John's

[zt456]

Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone has any information to whats going to happen to The Avenues now that St. John's Town Center is opened. Is there any truth behind these rumors of a more upscale department store like Saks coming to The Avenues and how are sales doing with the opening of St. John's Town Center? Also, any information of how sales have been at St. John's Town Center since it's opening? Help would be appreciated.

[afh]

Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone has any information to whats going to happen to The Avenues now that St. John's Town Center is opened. Is there any truth behind these rumors of a more upscale department store like Saks coming to The Avenues and how are sales doing with the opening of St. John's Town Center? Also, any information of how sales have been at St. John's Town Center since it's opening? Any respone would be appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as STJTC is concerned, most of the stores and restaurants had record breaking weeks according to news reports. More recent sales haven't been reported but you can assume that the sales are still good.

The industry is really in period of change right now as Federated (Macy's Bloomy's) purchased May (Lord and Taylor, Robinson's May) and they're in the process of changing everything over to the Macy's brand. Then you have The Neiman Marcus Group being sold to Texas Pacific Group and Warburg Pincus. Saks and Company sold off their Proffit stores to Belk so that they could streamline and concentrate on the Saks Fifth Ave and Parisan stores. All in all this is good news for Jax. I say that b/c the equity firm that bought Neimans wants to expand. Federated is eager to enter the Jacksonville market with multiple Macy stores and Saks will concentrate on getting Saks into more markets.

As far as which of the two malls would get what, Simon owns both. I suspect that with Dillards opening a larger store at Town Center, the Avenues store will eventually close. Therefore, you'll probably see Macy's or Saks go there. At Town Center, the talk has always been Nordstrom and Neimans b/c both have been in lease talks with Simon for Town Center. There will be three anchors at Town Center with the third being Macy's or Saks.

Now you have to remember that with all of the changes taking place in the industry, deals that were almost done will probably take a little longer to complete. That being said, Simon has said they will announce some of the tenants for the 2nd phase of Town Center this summer.

[bobliocatt]

Just wanted to let everyone know, I just recieved an email from a friend who is working on the Architectural Construction Documents for St. Johns Center's Phase II. The official department stores on the drawings are Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom. I guess Saks will have to find somewhere else if they want to be in this market.

[afh]

Just wanted to let everyone know, I just recieved an email from a friend who is working on the Architectural Construction Documents for St. Johns Center's Phase II.  The official department stores on the drawings are Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom.  I guess Saks will have to find somewhere else if they want to be in this market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not surprised at all. I thought that Macy's would go to the Avenues but Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom isn't a surprise. Saks if they decide to enter the market would most likely go into the Avenues. Who knows! Good news any way U cut it. It'll be more interesting to see what speciality retailers are at St Johns. You know, Gucci, Cole Haan, Tiffany and the like. Look for Burberry......

[Metro242]

Why, that is going to be quite an improvement to an already impressive mall.

What's the deal with Phase II? Is it going to be built at the end of the main strip of the Town Center down past Dicks and Dillards? Any timeframe or general ballpark of how many new stores are going to be built aside from the department stores? Thanks.

When people say Sakks or something might be added to the Avenues, are you talking the actual mall or that new Lifestyle Center addition thet are supposedly going to make to it?

[afh]

Why, that is going to be quite an improvement to an already impressive mall.

What's the deal with Phase II? Is it going to be built at the end of the main strip of the Town Center down past Dicks and Dillards? Any timeframe or general ballpark of how many new stores are going to be built aside from the department stores? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know where Phase 2 is going to be built b/c I haven't actually been to the mall. Simon (the developer) says that the 2nd phase would be completed in about 1.5 to 2yrs after the stores are announced, which should be this summer according to their press release. No word on what speciality retailers (non-dept stores) will be built, but all you have to do is take a look at Simon's most recent projects, such as Southpark in Charlotte. That should give you an indication of the type of retailers they'll bring to St. Johns. Deals are based on the relationships that developers have with retailers and Simon has alot. Their goal is to make Phase 2 the upscale portion of the develop, i.e Neiman and Nordstrom. You can suspect that the other stores will compliment the anchors.

Simon also said that they would be adding more restaurants to the second phase so we'll see what they have to announce concerning that.

When people say Sakks or something might be added to the Avenues, are you talking the actual mall or that new Lifestyle Center addition thet are supposedly going to make to it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I said that I was referring to Saks going into the Dillards spot, if Dillards closes or the Parisan spot, b/c Saks owns Parisan and that is what happened when Saks opened in Orlando.

[Urban_Legend]

Is it going to be built at the end of the main strip of the Town Center down past Dicks and Dillards?

Yep!

[jandar]

When the new regional mall goes up in Oakleaf Planation/Argyle area, look for many numerous upscale stores.

Before SJ Town Center was on the list, it was rumoured by Neiman Marcus employees in Orlando that Middleburg was on the list of areas. (Anything not built in Orange Park/Green Cove Springs, etc... is pretty much labeled as Middleburg in Clay COunty, hence all of Oakleaf Planation is middleburg area)

I would think that Neiman and Saks and etc would look towards either Ponte Vedra or Amelia Island. (especially Amelia)

[asonj23]

I agree that the high-end dept. stores would push toward those areas. The St. Johns Town Center is in a good location, however, I think the the Avenues is more suited and would get more attention being on 95, US1, and Southside.

"Middleburg" won't see anything like Macy's or Saks for decades.

[afh]

I agree that the high-end dept. stores would push toward those areas.  The St. Johns Town Center is in a good location, however, I think the the Avenues is more suited and would get more attention being on 95, US1, and Southside.

"Middleburg" won't see anything like Macy's or Saks for decades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Orange Park mall will get a Macy's. Two reason why: Simon owns OP mall and they have a good relationship with Federated (Macy's owner). The other reason is that the Florida director of ops for Federated has stated repeatedly that they want to open multiple stores in the Jax market b/c the market is to big for one Macy's. When the first Macy's is annouced I believe shortly after that you'll hear deals for a Macy's at Regency Square and Orange Park.

[asonj23]

^ Now that you mention it, the OP mall could be elegible for a Federated store. Is that the "Middleburg" are previously referenced??

Also, isn't Oakleaf Plantation fairly close to the OP mall? Why build another mall so close?

[jandar]

^ Now that you mention it, the OP mall could be elegible for a Federated store.  Is that the "Middleburg" are previously referenced??

Also, isn't Oakleaf Plantation fairly close to the OP mall?  Why build another mall so close?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oakleaf Plantation is bascially Middleburg. If you live in CLay County and your address is not Orange Park, Green Cove or Keystone Heights, it is Middleburg. Dont think Blanding and CR218. Middleburg is everything else in the county basically. (the middleburg post office is 11 miles from my house if I have to get certified mail, the one in Orange Park is 4 miles away)

The new mall is a regional mall, it will be upscale unlike Orange Park Mall. Average house prices in Oakleaf are rapidly nearing 300K+. Many new neighborhoods are starting in the mid 250s and up. Its not uncommon to see a 3/2 1200 sq ft house selling for over 200K in this area. http://tinyurl.com/ad2vw

They continue to use Eagle Harbor development as a bad example. This is an area marketed for executive living.

This is an area from Argyle Chaffee/Brannan Field Rd area to Old Jennings/Blanding. It is an area still trying to find a solid identity, yet house prices are shooting through the roof. Ive made over 50K in equity in 2 years on my house, that is pretty much the standard around here.

OP Mall will continue as a standard mall, Oakleaf Regional will be something akin to a Avenues/SJ Town Center mix more than likely.

[afh]

OP Mall will continue as a standard mall, Oakleaf Regional will be something akin to a Avenues/SJ Town Center mix more than likely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You think so! It's seems kinda of early to say this, seeing as how the developers of this proposed mall have not mentioned much about the mall with regard to tenant mixture. That would be great if the area added such a mall, but I think the development of the mall if to far out into the future to actually right now what the tenant mixture would look like.

[bobliocatt]

Who are the developers? Where's the location for a mall in Oakleaf? When will construction start?

[Urban_Legend]

The mall in Oakleaf will be on the corner of Argyle Forest Blvd (the new, extended portion) and Chaffee, I believe. It's way out there in the boonies. That's all I know about that mall.

I used to live in Argyle, and that was already far away. This Oakleaf is even further, and it's basically a dead end, with only two ways out: Argyle Forest Blvd and Chaffee. IMO, it'll be a sprawl nightmare once it all fills up.

But the homes are pricey, which will attract some pricey stores. I think OP Mall is getting kinda "suburban ghetto". It's not very upscale, but who said that area was upscale?

[bobliocatt]

Is this proposed mall, just land set aside in the DRI, by Oakleaf developers for a future mall, or have they officially sold the property to a mall developer?

[frag24]

It sounds like Oakleaf area is getting expensive...... hmmm...... what are the malls close to that place? - I'm from NY and my parents are thinking of moving there- please help

[Viper]

It sounds like Oakleaf area is getting expensive...... hmmm...... what are the malls close to that place? - I'm from NY and my parents are thinking of moving there- please help

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Orange Park Mall is the closest operating mall right now. There are reports of a larger more upscale mall being planned for the Oakleaf area but nothing solid as of yet. The Avenues Mall is across the river and offers better shopping than the Orange Park Mall and better still is the new St Johns Town Center that has recently opened phase one with a multitude of upscale shopping and stores new to the entire area. This mall is about 22 miles from Oak Leaf so it's one of the farthest.