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Mike1

Forbes Ratings of Raleigh & Charlotte

Do you agree with Forbes that Raleigh should rank #2 and Charlotte #42?  

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  1. 1. Do you agree with Forbes that Raleigh should rank #2 and Charlotte #42?

    • Yes
      40
    • No
      50


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In Forbes 2005 list of the best places for business and careers it ranked Raleigh #2 and Charlotte #42 (Boise ID was #1). Do you agree with this? Comments?

Raleigh - Rankings - (Overall #2 out of 150)

Engineers - 38:150

Cost of Doing Business - 10:150

Cost of Living - 91:150

Crime Rate - 80:150

Culture & Leisure - 60:150

Educational Attainment - 6:150

Income Growth - 108:150

Job Growth - 53:150

Net Migration 19:150

Charlotte - Rankings - (Overall #42 out of 150)

Engineers - 95:150

Cost of Doing Business - 18:150

Cost of Living - 81:150

Crime Rate - 132:150

Culture & Leisure - 79:150

Educational Attainment - 55:150

Income Growth - 105:150

Job Growth - 68:150

Net Migration 22:150

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Raleigh - Rankings - (Overall #2 out of 150)

Culture & Leisure - 60:150

Charlotte - Rankings - (Overall #42 out of 150)

Culture & Leisure - 79:150

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess the museums in Raleigh gave a big boost to that one. How's the performing arts scene in Charlotte compare to Raleigh? That's probably a big factor, although I don't know very much about it. I'm guessing restaurants and clubs aren't given very much weight.

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Once upon a time I was pretty involved in theatre and Charlotte's scene sometimes seemed a bit more active than Raleigh's... though Raleigh does a pretty decent job nonetheless. I have recently thought of getting back into it.

Some of the public schools here do a great job with the performing arts, when you least expect it. Back in the mid 1990s, there was an event in Asheville involving schools from all over NC and a few other states nearby--they referred to our school as the "Great design and production" school. Apparently we acquired quite a reputation.

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Once upon a time I was pretty involved in theatre and Charlotte's scene sometimes seemed a bit more active than Raleigh's... though Raleigh does a pretty decent job nonetheless. I have recently thought of getting back into it.

Some of the public schools here do a great job with the performing arts, when you least expect it. Back in the mid 1990s, there was an event in Asheville involving schools from all over NC and a few other states nearby--they referred to our school as the "Great design and production" school. Apparently we acquired quite a reputation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Raleigh has long been known as the cultural center of the state. With 3 symphonies, two opera companies, three theatre groups, the history, science, and art museums, and as the NY Times once put it....one of the greatest performing arts venues on the east coast, it's no wonder. Plus there are more performing arts "training academies" than anywhere I can think of. Multiple smaller outfits succeed in Raleigh as well.

Charlotte has many things that are better than Raleigh, but culture is not one of them (although they don't do too bad). Blumenthal is a nice place and the CSO isn't bad.

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Lower # means better right?

The Educational Attainment Factor is a big one. Raleigh definetly leads there.

And Crime is another biggie, Charlotte apparently did'nt do so well there. Overall I guess the list is fairly accurate. Mainly I think Raleigh is higher because there is more room for business to grow. Charlotte is so Bank oriented that a diverse mix of businesses may be harder to cultivate than in the triangle area.

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In Forbes 2005 list of the best places for business and careers it ranked Raleigh #2 and Charlotte #42 (Boise ID was #1).  Do you agree with this?  Comments?

Raleigh - Rankings - (Overall #2 out of 150)

Engineers - 38:150

Cost of Doing Business - 10:150

Cost of Living - 91:150

Crime Rate - 80:150

Culture & Leisure - 60:150

Educational Attainment - 6:150

Income Growth - 108:150

Job Growth - 53:150

Net Migration 19:150

Charlotte - Rankings - (Overall #42 out of 150)

Engineers - 95:150

Cost of Doing Business - 18:150

Cost of Living - 81:150

Crime Rate - 132:150

Culture & Leisure - 79:150

Educational Attainment - 55:150

Income Growth - 105:150

Job Growth - 68:150

Net Migration 22:150

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want a career in Boise, ID or Raliegh, NC... then go right ahead. I'm sure both places are also great places to raise a family while managing a career.

However, I fail to see how these rankings really mean squat - obviously Boise and Raliegh aren't the best places in the nation for business and careers for any reason other than the fact that they are small, inexpensive cities with nice amenities for places of that size.

What these rankings do not do is account for career advancement opportunities and overall possibilty to live an interesting, exciting life. If people are seriously interested in a dynamic career with a world of possibility & opportunity, then I'd like to think that most of us would broaden our horizons beyond the scope and scale of Raliegh or Boise. New York, Washington, LA, Chicago, etc - while these cities are more expensive and transportation is more of a hassle, they all offer greater opportunity to truly take one's career on an exciting and unique path.

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What these rankings do not do is account for career advancement opportunities and overall possibilty to live an interesting, exciting life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Raleigh was named No. 2 city to do business in. If lets business owners know that Raleigh is a cost effective city with a large potential hiring pool and low crime. The other criteria like cultural ameninities really mean squat. Those were the very important criteria that placed Raleigh above Charlotte. Even Atlanta placed higher than Charlotte. I'm sure it's due to the enormous number of excellent universities in the Atlanta area. Charlotte is unfortunately lacking in that area and it's a big issue. IMO, it's far more important than a NASCAR museum or an Uptown Arena or even IKEA in Charlotte ( :P ). I just feel like the city is hiding it's head in the sand on the educational issue. There's not even a law school or a proper medical school. I'm sorry, but I think there is something very wrong with that.

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ah, it still does not mean anything.

Charlotte is so Bank oriented that a diverse mix of businesses may be harder to cultivate than in the triangle area

This is always mentioned but is untrue. I don't think SPX, Duke Energy, Goodrich, Lowes, Nucor, Sonic Automotive, and Family Dollar are banks.

The triangle is only home to like 2 (a guess) fortune 500 companies (since we are talking about magazine lists!)

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Did they go into any detail on their criteria?  Culture can mean a lot of different things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It appears the lower the number the better the rating.

The Forbes report had the following footnotes:

Engineers

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Charlotte is so Bank oriented that a diverse mix of businesses may be harder to cultivate than in the triangle area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've heard Raleigh has only high-tech firms in RTP, but I'm sure that's not 100% true either. Just as Charlotte is not all about banking.

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If you want a career in Boise, ID or Raliegh, NC... then go right ahead.  I'm sure both places are also great places to raise a family while managing a career.

However, I fail to see how these rankings really mean squat - obviously Boise and Raliegh aren't the best places in the nation for business and careers for any reason other than the fact that they are small, inexpensive cities with nice amenities for places of that size. 

What these rankings do not do is account for career advancement opportunities and overall possibilty to live an interesting, exciting life.  If people are seriously interested in a dynamic career with a world of possibility & opportunity, then I'd like to think that most of us would broaden our horizons beyond the scope and scale of Raliegh or Boise.  New York, Washington, LA, Chicago, etc - while these cities are more expensive and transportation is more of a hassle, they all offer greater opportunity to truly take one's career on an exciting and unique path.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, Raleigh is hardly a "small city". It is neither New York or Los Angeles. But, having travelled extensively to larger metropolitan areas, I can say that Raleigh does not lack much. You mention that Raleigh is an inexpensive city and by northern and western standards it is true. However, it is the MOST expensive city in North Carolina to buy a single family home. I don't know much about Boise so I can't comment on that.

Some notes on Raleigh:

Cultural center of the state...probably the largest cultural center between D.C. and Atlanta. See my other post regarding this.

City population: approx 350,000 / 1.45 million metro pop.

One of the largest concentrations of universities and colleges in the nation.

The largest research park in the world just west of the city limits (Research Triangle Park) (Yeah, we do more research than Boston, L.A., New York, and any other "big" city.)

Cheapest airfare from a major U.S. airport.

Largest greenway system in the south.

Traffic that is equal to L.A. (Except in L.A. there's just more of it)

I could go on and on, but you get the point. Raleigh is a highly underrated city.

Suffice it to say that in most areas, Raleigh can hold its own.

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First of all, Raleigh is hardly a "small city".  It is neither New York or Los Angeles.  But, having travelled extensively to larger metropolitan areas, I can say that Raleigh does not lack much.  You mention that Raleigh is an inexpensive city and by northern and western standards it is true.  However, it is the MOST expensive city in North Carolina to buy a single family home.  I don't know much about Boise so I can't comment on that.

Some notes on Raleigh:

Cultural center of the state...probably the largest cultural center between D.C. and Atlanta.  See my other post regarding this.

City population: approx 350,000 / 1.45 million metro pop.

One of the largest concentrations of universities and colleges in the nation.

The largest research park in the world just west of the city limits (Research Triangle Park) (Yeah, we do more research than Boston, L.A., New York, and any other "big" city.)

Cheapest airfare from a major U.S. airport.

Largest greenway system in the south.

Traffic that is equal to L.A. (Except in L.A. there's just more of it)

I could go on and on, but you get the point.  Raleigh is a highly underrated city.

Suffice it to say that in most areas, Raleigh can hold its own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't understand the traffic part. Can you elaborate....Are we speaking of auto traffic???(just curious) :huh:

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Raleigh was named No. 2 city to do business in. If lets business owners know that Raleigh is a cost effective city with a large potential hiring pool and low crime. The other criteria like cultural ameninities really mean squat. Those were the very important criteria that placed Raleigh above Charlotte. Even Atlanta placed higher than Charlotte. I'm sure it's due to the enormous number of excellent universities in the Atlanta area. Charlotte is unfortunately lacking in that area and it's a big issue. IMO, it's far more important than a NASCAR museum or an Uptown Arena or even IKEA in Charlotte ( :P ). I just feel like the city is hiding it's head in the sand on the educational issue. There's not even a law school or a proper medical school. I'm sorry, but I think there is something very wrong with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gee, if the powers that be in Raleigh would actually give UNCC some money, maybe that would change.

An excerpt from a Charlotte Observer article on April 16, 2005:

(UNCC), with almost 20,000 enrolled, ranks near the bottom of UNC's 16 campuses in state money per full-time student.

The schools student-teacher ratio of 19 to 1 is among the system's highest. By comparison, the ratio for the system's two flagship research centers, UNC Chapel Hill and N.C. State, is 15 to 1.

Nonetheless, UNCC has kept adding doctoral and research programs, stretching its dollars with bigger classes, fewer courses and more part-time faculty.

The seeds of financial inequity were planted when the university system was formed in 1972. A complicated formula that doled out money based on enrollment, student-teacher ratios and faculty salaries institutionalized the existing disparities in state aid.

The formula was tweaked from time to time, particularly to overcome the historic inequities of the state's traditional black campuses. None of those changes brought UNCC more in line.

East Carolina University made the move to doctoral certification in 1999, and received its transitional money in 1999-2000, and 2002-2003.

Five years after its reclassification, UNCC is still waiting.

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If you want a career in Boise, ID or Raliegh, NC... then go right ahead.  I'm sure both places are also great places to raise a family while managing a career.

However, I fail to see how these rankings really mean squat - obviously Boise and Raliegh aren't the best places in the nation for business and careers for any reason other than the fact that they are small, inexpensive cities with nice amenities for places of that size. 

What these rankings do not do is account for career advancement opportunities and overall possibilty to live an interesting, exciting life.  If people are seriously interested in a dynamic career with a world of possibility & opportunity, then I'd like to think that most of us would broaden our horizons beyond the scope and scale of Raliegh or Boise.  New York, Washington, LA, Chicago, etc - while these cities are more expensive and transportation is more of a hassle, they all offer greater opportunity to truly take one's career on an exciting and unique path.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK...that's it. Raleigh's been destroying Charlotte for years now(as have other places like Portland, Austin, and Seattle)..Get over it. I moved here from very far away, as this place has more of the intangibles you feel when you're in a creative larger area. You can't manufacture a cool or interesting place, it just has to be there. And another thing, Austin and DC are Raleigh's competitors (don't start with a Boise, ID crack to emphasize your point). We're roughly the same size as you, and outpacing you so quit acting like you're "the big city"--it's pathetic. They (DC, Austin, and Atlanta) are also on that list, so here are some things you might want to consider before you post:

The Triangle DOMINATES Charlotte in the following:

Music scene (Chapel Hill and the Triangle lead the Southeast..ask anyone)

Culture (Durham has the best documentary and dance festivals in the country)

Higher Ed. worth anything (Duke, UNC, State--enough said)

These are all things that drive people to move to a place, which by the way, the Triangle is doing better than any place in NC. Read Richard Florida's book on the creative class, and actually research it. You can't erect tall buildings (and there aren't many in Charlotte to begin with) and just call it a city..it doesn't work that way. For the record, the Triangle "feels" like a bigger area than Charlotte...polish, traffic, vibe, etc.

I try to respect the Charlotteans, but if it's like that let the border skirmish begin

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Since everyone's getting so bent out of shape over one magazine ranking here are some more:

Inc. Magazine - 2004 Top U.S. Cities For Doing Business

Greensboro #49....Charlotte #52....Raleigh #55

Entrepreneur Magazine - Best Cities For Entreprenuers in 2003

*Based on entrepreneurial activity, small business growth, job growth, & risk

Charlotte #9....Greensboro #32....Raleigh #40

Entrepreneur Magazine - 2005 Top 50 Entrepreneurial Cities

*Based on average number of new business licenses & number of utility patents issued

Raleigh #9....Charlotte #13....Greensboro #39

Expansion Management Magazine - 50 Hottest Cities in America in 2005

Charlotte #4....Raleigh #17....Greensboro N/R

Milken Institute - 2004 Best Preforming Cities

*Based on creating and sustaining jobs

Raleigh #34....Charlotte #50....Greensboro #165

Business Facilities Magazine - Top 15 Cities For Corporate Headquarters 2003

Charlotte #3....Raleigh #9....Greensboro N/R

Progressive Policy Institute - 2002 Metropolitan New Economy Rankings

Raleigh #4....Charlotte #30....Greensboro #45

Forbes Magazine - 2004 Top 40 Cities for Singles

Raleigh #17....Charlotte #36....Greensboro #37

Reliance Relocation Services Inc - Top 10 U.S. Relocation Markets in 2004

Raleigh #6....Charlotte #7....Greensboro N/R

My point to this is that it's impossible to pick a best city. NC as a whole is doing great business wise and that is good enough for me.

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If you want a career in Boise, ID or Raliegh, NC... then go right ahead. I'm sure both places are also great places to raise a family while managing a career.

However, I fail to see how these rankings really mean squat - obviously Boise and Raliegh aren't the best places in the nation for business and careers for any reason other than the fact that they are small, inexpensive cities with nice amenities for places of that size.

What these rankings do not do is account for career advancement opportunities and overall possibilty to live an interesting, exciting life. If people are seriously interested in a dynamic career with a world of possibility & opportunity, then I'd like to think that most of us would broaden our horizons beyond the scope and scale of Raliegh or Boise. New York, Washington, LA, Chicago, etc - while these cities are more expensive and transportation is more of a hassle, they all offer greater opportunity to truly take one's career on an exciting and unique path.

It's R-A-L-E-I-G-H

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Raleigh has worse traffic than Charlotte because Raleigh's road system isn't as good as Charlotte's.

Are we really arguing about traffic?

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