CU-ICAR/Millennium Campus

[gs3]

Check out this link:

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs..../510040321/1003

[Greenville]

How does ICAR/Millennium Campus compare to Research Triangle Park in terms of size and impact? I know RTP is a big deal, but is what we have going on in Greenville expected to be comparable? It is amazing all of the hotels that have been built up to cater to RTP, and I am hoping that a similar thing will happen around ICAR and the Millennium Campus. Thoughts?

[krazeeboi]

Personally, I think it will take decades before either ICAR/Millenium Campus or even Innovista in Columbia can become compared to RTP, either in size or impact. RTP employs over 40,000 people, which is a LARGE amount of people.

[krazeeboi]

You question the placement, but where else are you going to find 1600 acre with such great access and visibility that happens to lie in an area that is already provided with services?

OFten that amound of land is only found in rural areas, take the Matrix for example.

Is there any possibility of building UP instead of OUT? Is it possible that some existing part of downtown can be converted to an "ingenuity district" of some sort? I think it would be cool if one of those developments (ICAR or Millenium Campus) would take that route.

Was Millenium Campus part of the original plan or more of an afterthought?

Edited October 4, 2005 by krazeeboi

[csedwards72]

Is there any possibility of buidling UP instead of OUT? Is it possible that some existing part of downtown can be converted to an "ingenuity district" of some sort? I think it would be cool if one of those developments (ICAR or Millenium Campus) would take that route.

Was Millenium Campus part of the original plan or more of an afterthought?

Great point!

There are many acres of vacant or underdeveloped land around downtown Greenville and especially near downtown's southwest. Why not take this land and redevelop it? Replacing run-down buildings and parking lots with nice new office buildings would be great and, in my view, far better than (1) leaving acres of run-down buildings and parking lots near downtown and (2) replacing nice green space near I-85 with nice new office buildings. Perhaps the areas near downtown are somewhat dodgy, but so was the West End before it was redeveloped starting in the 1990s.

[goodbye]

I guess you smart ones should tell them why they're wrong to waste so much time and money on projects that will help the growth of the City and Upstate.

[krazeeboi]

Skyliner, why are you being so defensive? Yes Greenville has come a long way and I, for one, am glad about it, but it's no Utopia. These projects will do a great deal for the city and the state, but they're not "magic bullets." Your mayor is not omniscient. Be happy about what the city is doing, but be realistic as well. Yes I think it would be better to have the developments as a part of downtown, but it's good that the city is getting them in the first place. We can celebrate the city's successes while at the same time making honest observations and honest criticisms.

Seriously dude, you're starting to sound a wee bit childish. It's not that serious, I promise you.

[gs3]

Skyliner, why are you being so defensive? Yes Greenville has come a long way and I, for one, am glad about it, but it's no Utopia. These projects will do a great deal for the city and the state, but they're not "magic bullets." Your mayor is not omniscient. Be happy about what the city is doing, but be realistic as well. Yes I think it would be better to have the developments as a part of downtown, but it's good that the city is getting them in the first place. We can celebrate the city's successes while at the same time making honest observations and honest criticisms.

Seriously dude, you're starting to sound a wee bit childish. It's not that serious, I promise you.

Seems there are alot of childish comments being made by many. Each person has their own vision of utopia. Greenville for many is very close to utopia. Since you don't live here krazeeboi, maybe you should visit more often so you can have first hand knowledge. This is an invite. Come visit. We'll show you around.

[GvilleSC]

I understand both sides... and so it's tough to say with which one I like better, but I'm thrilled that this will help boost Laurens Road to what it once was and more...

[krazeeboi]

I was actually in Greenville a few weeks ago and even took a few pictures. I thoroughly enjoyed myself, even for the short time I spent downtown. I have praised and even defended Greenville, not only on this forum (I initiated the "Greenville vs. Chattanooga" thread in the Southern USA forum to specifically showcase the accomplishments and developments of the city) but also elsewhere. I'm not understanding why feathers should be ruffled simply because something exists that Greenville is doing well, but could possibly be doing better.

I guess in the future I should remain from making any type of inquiries about developments in Greenville, lest it seem as though I'm committing blasphemy.

Edited October 5, 2005 by krazeeboi

[goodbye]

You are very welcome to continue posting here, Krazeeboi. I haven't noticed any of us being unrealistic, just very passionately resolute about our viewpoints. This is my observation.

[krazeeboi]

I am passionate about my viewpoints because I am passionate about the state of South Carolina. This state's future rests with our major cities, which I am confident will lead us to the next level economically. I want not only Greenville, but also Columbia and Charleston, to serve as national models of harmonious blends of urbanity and economic development, and Greenville has awesome potential for this. The city is great, and has everything in the world going for it; it has a bright future ahead of it. My comments were more inquisitive in nature, having had a different perspective shown to me on the issue. So, me being the scientifically-minded individual that I am, my gears got turning and I had to ask some pertinent questions about the issue. I meant no harm by my questions, but as with anything, if there is possibly a better way to do things, at least theoretically, then perhaps those ways should be further investigated and, depending on the outcome of the investigation, implemented. Either way, Greenville, the Upstate, and the great state of South Carolina will tremendously benefit from ICAR and Millenium Campus--I would just like for that benefit to be maximized.

Edited October 5, 2005 by krazeeboi

[goodbye]

Thank you for clearly explaining that, Krazeeboi. I was a bit too short, I know, and you have my apology. I think we will see these developments maximized in the end, to the benefit of the WHOLE state of South Carolina.

[krazeeboi]

I agree. I also apologize for any misunderstanding on my part. I am excited about Greenville's future, as well as that of the state of South Carolina.

[krazeeboi]

Also, think about it like this: any random city can take a few acres of land and plop some buildings down and call it "_______ Campus USA"; however, it takes a city with foresight, knowledge, patience, committment, and determination to take a part of its downtown area (or an area in close proximity), revitalize it by creating an ingenuity district of sorts, and weave it into the urban fabric of downtown very efficiently, thus giving downtown a certain creative edge that goes beyond centers of pedestrian activity alone. We know that Greenville has the foresight, knowledge, patience, committment, and determination to do this, and I for one believe that the present state of downtown shows that the city has the creativity to do this as well. Not only would the city benefit economically, but if you guys think that you're getting visits from other cities now, imagine what it would be like if this were to actually transpire! It would really be a one-of-a-kind thing, especially in SC; this is what Columbia is planning to do with the USC research campus in the Vista. So couple a phenomenon like this with Greenville's overwhelming success in transforming Main Street, and you have an undeniable formula for success.

Or maybe I'm being unrealistic....?

[goodbye]

I understand what you're saying, but the visits will transpire with these developments being located on the busiest artery in the South. I think it is simply a sign that the City is taking the next major step in the direction all cities must to become major players. As I said, having every future office built in downtown rather than the outskirts wouldn't bother me in the least. However, These properties need exactly this type of development and the long-term vision is a solid one. B)

[krazeeboi]

I just think that perhaps the city should at least consider capitalizing on the current downtown momentum by implementing something as visionary as a downtown ingenuity district (I think I might need to copyright that appellation, LOL). As I've stated, it's something different and would help to further distinguish Greenville as not only a vibrant place but also an innovative, pioneering place as well. Nothing wrong with the city carving a few more notches of a different kind in its belt.

At least we know that either way, the Upstate region and the state will ultimately benefit.

While Millenium Campus seems to be well-planned, I think I may be a bit bothered by the fact that it somewhat came as an afterthought. Maybe it's nothing to be concerned about, but that's just how I feel at this point.

OK, maybe I've run the whole concept into the ground by now.

Edited October 5, 2005 by krazeeboi

[tiger96]

Wow, interesting discussion. Usually I just sit back and read what everyone else has to say..but I've got to jump in here. I've followed the evolution of these projects pretty closely and I think there are a few salient points that are being missed when pondering the planning and location of these developments:

First - don't foget about Mr. Hollingsworth. It was all his land. We're not talking about a couple of acres of anonomous undeveloped land that somone's going to "plop" a couple of office buildlings on. We're talking about SC's wealthiest land owner (and probably biggest philanthropist) and his specific wishes to build a 'technology park' that would lend identity to Greenville.

Second - we're not talking about a bunch of brick, mult-tenant office buildings. We're talking about large single-tenant users and a pretty unique architectural neighbhorhood. If the Hubbell building and ICAR graduate school are good indicators of the kinds of buildings we can expect to see, people will be coming to Greenville just to see the architecture. I don't think there are a lot of cities that can boast that.

Finally - I think that we're lucky that our city's identity along I-85 is being carefully created and master-planned. the developers of ICAR, Millennium Campus and Verdae aren't just throwing up buildings to sell interstate frontage, to me there really seems to be vision and inspiriation behind these projects.

I love downtown Greenville, but I think that these developments are just what Greenville needs and right where it needs them.

B)

[krazeeboi]

Good points, tiger96. The visibility factor from I-85 is definitely a plus, although sometimes I think that we can rely on that too much. But also think about it like this: if the city were to go a little more vertical, perhaps certain buildings could indeed be seen from I-85. The interstate runs through Charlotte and you don't really get a total view of the skyline riding through the city (at least not better than from I-77); yet it is still known that you're riding through a pretty significant place. But I will say that I do like the fact that the architecture is going to be pretty modern, with Hubbell providing lighting for most of the buildings. Sounds pretty funky, actually ("funky" in a good way, ).

But perhaps redeveloping a certain part of downtown into something more is something that can be done in the future; after all, it does appear that Greenville's only getting started.

[goodbye]

Welcome, tiger96! Thank you for those well-spoken insights and your show of support for our beloved City. You have touched on a couple of points I would have liked to say, but didn't. We'll see many great things take place in the next several years. With great care being given to regulating a unique and wholesome vision for the future, Greenville will continue to magnify its worthiness of admiration in the eyes of residents and visitors alike.

[gs3]

Wow, interesting discussion. Usually I just sit back and read what everyone else has to say..but I've got to jump in here. I've followed the evolution of these projects pretty closely and I think there are a few salient points that are being missed when pondering the planning and location of these developments:

First - don't foget about Mr. Hollingsworth. It was all his land. We're not talking about a couple of acres of anonomous undeveloped land that somone's going to "plop" a couple of office buildlings on. We're talking about SC's wealthiest land owner (and probably biggest philanthropist) and his specific wishes to build a 'technology park' that would lend identity to Greenville.

Second - we're not talking about a bunch of brick, mult-tenant office buildings. We're talking about large single-tenant users and a pretty unique architectural neighbhorhood. If the Hubbell building and ICAR graduate school are good indicators of the kinds of buildings we can expect to see, people will be coming to Greenville just to see the architecture. I don't think there are a lot of cities that can boast that.

Finally - I think that we're lucky that our city's identity along I-85 is being carefully created and master-planned. the developers of ICAR, Millennium Campus and Verdae aren't just throwing up buildings to sell interstate frontage, to me there really seems to be vision and inspiriation behind these projects.

I love downtown Greenville, but I think that these developments are just what Greenville needs and right where it needs them.

B)

Excellent points!

[gs3]

Received my printed copy of GSA Business last night....good article on ICAR. I thought Furman was only adding one additional building at the moment, but actually, it's a four building cluster, named "Collaboration". Two of the buildings will house Timken, the other two are available space.

The article also said additional tenant announcements for ICAR are close.

[btoy]

I foudn it interesting that Timken will be in two buildings of only two stories that will be expanded to four stories in the future. Does that not sound odd to anyone else? Or did I miss understand the article?

[gs3]

I foudn it interesting that Timken will be in two buildings of only two stories that will be expanded to four stories in the future. Does that not sound odd to anyone else? Or did I miss understand the article?

That's how I read it too. Sounds like possible future growth for Timken in Greenville.

[tiger96]

Did anyone hear the story a couple weeks ago about Timken closing their plant in Laurens, it was a job loss of about 1,000 for Laurens. Does anyohe else think that's weird timing?