PROPOSED: Grant's Block

[brick]

Sorry to be a typical RI naysayer, but the crane is still not in the ground...

The crane doesn't go in until the foundation is in place. If you are going to be anxious about the crane, you may as well have a heart attack now instead of waiting the x months it takes them to do all of the site prep. remember how long it took to get a crane at the Masonic Temple?

[Mij]

It wasn't abandoned. There was a DD, bar, clothing store, and beauty supply store there. Only the latter was relocated downtown. Whether those businesses fit in with the image that downtown is aiming for, it doesn't matter. They were tax-paying entities. Demolition should have waited until construction could commence right away. Period. I think that's unacceptable...the same way that the 110 demolition was unacceptable. Sorry to be a typical RI naysayer, but the crane is still not in the ground...

I think your reaching a bit. Buff Chace is the entire reason for westminister street being what it is today. Of all the rehab projects, if I'm not mistaken, this was the only building to come down. It would not have should the prior building been stuctualy sound (ARI help on this one, what was the reason it came down?) As far as unacceptable the way 110 is, that is also just reaching a bit. 110 was in place of a historical building.

[basachs]

Until a building actually starts going up, I'm switching this one back to "PROPOSED."

Cool, I thought that was the general criteria.

I think everyone just let out some pent-up frustration at this project. I remember Ari spoke of grand plans for the holiday season and nothing ended up happening. Not his fault but it was a disappointment between that failing to happen and just a fence around a mud pit for so long.

Now with the weather getting consistently nice, and more people hopefully walking down westminster, it would be nice for some signage or some activity to give the feeling that something exciting is happening on that street.

I give Cornish a lot of credit for making the street what it is. I have faith that something will happen...

[Cotuit]

Cool, I thought that was the general criteria.

Generally it is, though there's no hard and fast rules as every project is different, and the definitions are rather nebulous.

[pete11]

I think everyone is being too negative. A parking garage downcity is like a license to print money, of course it will be built. As long as the developer does not want any public monies going toward it (H.T.C., revolving loan fund, etc...). I don't see anything stopping it. If you need any evidence try finding a space at a garage on a weekday.

[AriPVD]

Garages are incredibly expensive to build and generally do not return money like you think they might. They are also difficult to finance.

[pete11]

so it won't be built?

[Cotuit]

Surface lots are a license to print money. That's why we have so many.

[CtownMikey]

it would be nice to get some signs maybe like Westin II has along the sidewalk.

[Cotuit]

it would be nice to get some signs maybe like Westin II has along the sidewalk.

I agree the fencing is kind of wonky and the links serve as trash collectors, some signage or banners, even just coloured sheets would improve the look. Also, I've seen a few big dust storms down there, if the city is going to allow temporary parking, then something needs to be done to control the dust. If the city will not allow temporary parking, and the project is still a few months off, them it might be good to spray some grass seed.

[pete11]

Garages are incredibly expensive to build and generally do not return money like you think they might. They are also difficult to finance.

Ari in Feb. you said. With that said, there is still PLENTY of money looking to find its way into Providence...the question being whether this market can absorb it.

You said you didn't understand my response, and Jenkins called it Econ 305. Read it again and see if it makes sense now.

Oh, and I'm keenly aware of how ROI works, and if they weren't profitable in an area where parking was at a premium, you would not see any private ones, in any city core.

[Frankie811]

I think your reaching a bit. Buff Chace is the entire reason for westminister street being what it is today.

Ari, as you may already know, The Town Paper did a story on downtown Providence and interviewed your boss but I can't find it on their website. http://www.tndtownpaper.com/ Do you have a link or the story to post here?

[AriPVD]

There is plenty of money looking to find its way into real estate in Providence. Unfortunately, placing capital is only one side of the equation. You know as well as I that the market is changing, interest rates are rising, and construction prices are inflating. This makes projects more expensive and less feasible. When's the last time you saw a parking garage built in downtown Providence without any kind of public subsidy?

Might I also mention that this is not an ordinary parking garage but will have a multitude of design effects to minimize its appearance on the street, improve the customer experience and provide more housing and programming for Downcity. This add to the costs.

Again, I don't see why you're attacking the financials of a project you know absolutely nothing about. If you'd like to criticize, I suggest you get involved with a development company and actually attempt to work on these things rather than quarterbacking from your armchair. And why would I hide the facts from you---you think we don't want to see this built??

Try being a little less condescending, my friend.

[Recchia]

I shoulda kept my mouth shut...

Anyway, I just think that this project is a very important one that will have a huge impact on downtown, given its frontage to two very vibrant and important streets. That's why I was wondering about it.

[AriPVD]

Recchia, that wasn't directed at your comment. Only at Pete's. Sorry! I should learn to quote

[damus]

I shoulda kept my mouth shut...

Anyway, I just think that this project is a very important one that will have a huge impact on downtown, given its frontage to two very vibrant and important streets. That's why I was wondering about it.

I agree... with PPAC, JWU students, and all these Condo residents Westminster and Weybosset retail should be booming soon. I only wish JWU would build another dorm with ground floor retail space (or perhaps a campus union or something) on half of Gaebe Commons where it abuts Weybosset. The dorms and Gaebe look out of place with the streetscape to me. They look like something out of a suburban college campus, not one in the heart of a city.

I think in the case of Grant's Block, the parking garage is the ticket to selling the condos. There aren't many secure parking spaces downtown, and having one right near all of his developments will undoubtedly help Buff sell off the Condos and make it easier to rent out the retail space.

[Baines]

Recchia, that wasn't directed at your comment. Only at Pete's. Sorry! I should learn to quote

Hi AriPVD,

Thanks for all your info. I was in Providence last week and looked at the site. May I make an obvious observation and ask a queastion?

This is a strategically located site in that whatever is built will be an anchor for the western movement of larger (taller/denser) structures from the financial district to Route 95.

Is there any view (or posssiblity) of a taller structure with a smaller footprint?

[pete11]

Again, I don't see why you're attacking the financials of a project you know absolutely nothing about. If you'd like to criticize, I suggest you get involved with a development company and actually attempt to work on these things rather than quarterbacking from your armchair. And why would I hide the facts from you---you think we don't want to see this built??

Try being a little less condescending, my friend.

I will preface my statements by saying that I had no idea this project was seeking public monies.

To suggest that only people that work for developers should have a say where tax dollars go ,takes quite some hubris. This state is in a budget crisis, schools are closing, there are some serious healthcare issues. If this where a ballot question to where peoples tax dollars would be alloted, I'm not so sure your project would be picked. I, like many other that the Downcity Anti-Nimby crew illimunati look down upon ,am a taxpayer of this state, thats where I get to criticize (not that I ever did). I do believe you want to see it built. Since you started this discussion. Do you believe if the land were given back to the city/state and it was put up for auction, with the idea that upon it be built a privately funded parking garage would anybody bid? Its a rhetorical question. I have many more thoughts on HTC's and whether or not the public should mobilize against its misuse, if you would like to hear them, just respond. If you want to know what is condescending just understand there are people on this board that want to start anti-nimby groups to tell the taxpayers that are supporting their projects what is good for them.

[dexter]

Right now you can't build a garage in Downtown or anywhere near Downtown without some kind of subsidy. Period.

[damus]

Again, I don't see why you're attacking the financials of a project you know absolutely nothing about. If you'd like to criticize, I suggest you get involved with a development company and actually attempt to work on these things rather than quarterbacking from your armchair. And why would I hide the facts from you---you think we don't want to see this built??

Try being a little less condescending, my friend.

I will preface my statements by saying that I had no idea this project was seeking public monies.

To suggest that only people that work for developers should have a say where tax dollars go ,takes quite some hubris. This state is in a budget crisis, schools are closing, there are some serious healthcare issues. If this where a ballot question to where peoples tax dollars would be alloted, I'm not so sure your project would be picked. I, like many other that the Downcity Anti-Nimby crew illimunati look down upon ,am a taxpayer of this state, thats where I get to criticize (not that I ever did). I do believe you want to see it built. Since you started this discussion. Do you believe if the land were given back to the city/state and it was put up for auction, with the idea that upon it be built a privately funded parking garage would anybody bid? Its a rhetorical question. I have many more thoughts on HTC's and whether or not the public should mobilize against its misuse, if you would like to hear them, just respond. If you want to know what is condescending just understand there are people on this board that want to start anti-nimby groups to tell the taxpayers that are supporting their projects what is good for them.

Try using the quote feature, my friend. Your post confused me until I looked back through the thread.

[Cotuit]

Click the button under any post you want to quote. Be sure that the end of your quoted text has close quote code on it.

some text you're quoting

some text you're quoting

[AriPVD]

I will preface my statements by saying that I had no idea this project was seeking public monies.

To suggest that only people that work for developers should have a say where tax dollars go ,takes quite some hubris.

First off, the part of the project that would be require any kind of subsidy (from TIF or elsewhere) would be the public portion of the garage.

Second, I think you know that I do not believe that only a developer has a right to decide what deserves tax relief or subsidy. I was merely arguing that you don't know every intricacy of the financials of this project to claim that this garage is a profitable venture. If you're trying to provoke me, good luck.

[KRC]

First off, the part of the project that would be require any kind of subsidy (from TIF or elsewhere) would be the public portion of the garage.

Second, I think you know that I do not believe that only a developer has a right to decide what deserves tax relief or subsidy. I was merely arguing that you don't know every intricacy of the financials of this project to claim that this garage is a profitable venture. If you're trying to provoke me, good luck.

Ari, please don't let yourself be bated here. The vast majority of us know you and your company only have the best of intentions for the city. Personally, while my eyebrow has been raised by this delay, I have no doubt something will move forward in a reasonable amount of time. I feel comfortable making that statement because your company has done wonders for Westminster Street to date and has proven its commitment to Providence. Westminster was a ghost town not to long ago. Look at it today. It bustles more now than it has since I moved here and it's only getting better. This is a wrinkle in the overall plan which appears to be quite successful. It's THE main reason why I'm investing downcity. I'm putting my money where my mouth is and many people (including those who chose to put their foot in their mouth on this board) feel the same way. Even if it's in a less than articulate or respectful manner. Regardless of this small delay, Downcity has a become a place to call home for many urban dwellers and your company has much to be thanked for that!

One favor, even if it's only a delay to the end of the year; can you please pretty up that dust bowl?

[pete11]

First off, the part of the project that would be require any kind of subsidy (from TIF or elsewhere) would be the public portion of the garage.

Second, I think you know that I do not believe that only a developer has a right to decide what deserves tax relief or subsidy. I was merely arguing that you don't know every intricacy of the financials of this project to claim that this garage is a profitable venture. If you're trying to provoke me, good luck.

Ari, firstly I am behind most of what Cornish is doing Downcity. You spoke of a different financing climate.

On Feb 2 I posted:

"The problem with real estate is its a 10 year cycle but its paricipants have a 7 year memory. If you are involved in securing financing for your org you will see quickly that if the lenders use arbitrage (swaps derivatives) they are having a harder and harder time making money. Last week the Japanese stopped buying 2 years. I'm probably boring the board and won't go on. P.S. the reason the stock market is tanking today is the good news this morning that brings a 50bps increase into the picture for March (good for me as you might guess I'm short a luxury builder and some sub-prime lenders). I won't even go into market psychology this spring when people realize the bubble has burst, and the fact that lenders are going to have to require tighter lending standards."

Some people knew then about higher interest rates different market etc.... I couldn't have been the only one!

If you read my posts you will realize the garage aspect is not the part of the project I would have a problem with public/private funding with. I think more parking is needed DownCity, and it should be a municipal concern.

I think my problem with you is coming onto this board and posting cryptic rumors about privately funded projects (read 110) as if your The Oracle of The Ocean State. RI is small, we all hear rumors, such as $70k spent on corporate housing furniture, high percentage of student renters, a deal with JWU following a deal on one of Stanley's buildings, but some people wouldn't post this stuff until it was fully substantiated. I am happy when people question bad development (I actually believe Cornish is doing a fine job) because quickly appreciating asset prices have covered up a lot of developers mistakes, and I don't think that will be the case going forward.

p.s. sorry Cotuit maybe its 'cause I'm old but I suck at this world wide intranet thing and can't figure out those quote things

[AriPVD]

I think my problem with you is coming onto this board and posting cryptic rumors about privately funded projects (read 110) as if your The Oracle of The Ocean State. RI is small, we all hear rumors, such as $70k spent on corporate housing furniture, high percentage of student renters, a deal with JWU following a deal on one of Stanley's buildings, but some people wouldn't post this stuff until it was fully substantiated.

Pete, I'm not sure I understand your criticism. I only post a "rumor" on here when I am comfortable sharing it; I thought that was the whole idea of public posting forums like this site? Isn't that why everyone logs on to Urban Planet? To hear the latest "word on the street?" If this is wrong, I will stop posting immediately.

Pete11, please don't respond to this post. If you have a problem with me personally, I'd ask you to private message me.