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SouthPark neighborhood Projects

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Just curious...Has anyone rode around in Southpark area lately. I have seen tremendous growth. In the last three months they have erected two nice size mid rises on Fairview (10 -14 stories). I also noticed an auction that is going to take place to sell some of the single family homes between Fairveiw and Park. I bet for more office and condo space. On a side note, Simon (the owner of Southpark), is toying around with the idea of putting a high rise condo project on the corner between Morrison and Sharon (on the Dillard side of the mall). Right across from Dee' Dee's project. It would be where the Christmas Tree lighting happens at Christmas.

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The MOMENT someone tries to build something over 15 stories in South Park the residents are going to freak.

It'll make the mall battle pale in comparison.

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I tend to agree. However, with land scarce and Southpark a destination for business and residents across the region, the only real way to build is up. There is hardly any land left in Southpark to build on. BTW, a new crane moved in on Barkley Downs Road. It is a project called "THe Pinnacle" THe rendering on the street side sign is incredible. It will compliment the other existing corners. The Smith Barney Bldg, The Prudential Bldg (the one with the Water feature in front), and the Orchestra area at Soutpark mall (for Pops in the Park).

Edited by A219724

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I don't think it will become Buckhead like for the simple reason there are not enough roads there to handle any more traffic. And Southpark is not on any of the planned transit corridors. I think for the long term, SouthPark will end up not being that important if the city sticks to its plans to concentrate development on the transit corridors. Otherwise the entire transit investment of $6 Billion will be wasted.

Who wants to encourage the sprawling auto oriented mess that prevails around SouthPark?

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I don't think it will become Buckhead like for the simple reason there are not enough roads there to handle any more traffic.  And Southpark is not on any of the planned transit corridors.  I think for the long term, SouthPark will end up not being that important if the city sticks to its plans to concentrate development on the transit corridors.  Otherwise the entire transit investment of $6 Billion will be wasted. 

Who wants to encourage the sprawling auto oriented mess that prevails around SouthPark?

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But Buckhead can't support any more traffic either - but that hasn't stopped developers / politicians in widening every conceivable road to maximum. Hopefully Charlotte will mantain the residential oriented South Park as it is - but I could hypothetically see it happen.

But still - don't you remember what South Park looked 20 years ago? It has changed a whole lot...

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But still - don't you remember what South Park looked 20 years ago?  It has changed a whole lot...

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Heh, I was living on Colony Rd right by SouthPark 20 years ago and the traffic was brutal then. It would take 25 minutes just to get from Colony to Seneca place (near Park & Woodlawn) where I worked. One has to remember that much of the development there today, simply replaced older development that used to be there. For example there used to be a huge Eastern Airlines Reservation center across from Southpark that brought a large number of workers to the area. The state and city has made many improvements to the road system since then but it is now at its limits. Also, 20 years ago, there was no transit plan.

I also remember Buckhead 20 years ago, and the analogy is not the same.

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True - & I wouldn't wish Buckhead on anyone ;)

But the analogy isn't that much of a stretch - Buckhead is primarily a single family residential area that became the first edge city for Atlanta & is centered around a mall. Southpark is a primarily a single family residential area that became the first edge city for Charlotte & is centered around a mall.

Not that much of a stretch :) But it isn't specifically 'Buckhead' - but the type of development that Buckhead is, every large city has what is essentially a 'Buckhead'.

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Southpark is a primarily a single family residential area that became the first edge city for Charlotte & is centered around a mall.

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I disagree and that is not the case about being Charlotte's first edge city. First there was Park Road Shopping Center, then later CharlotteTown Mall. They were there decades before Southpark and neither area became "buckheads" despite being in better areas for this to have happened. SouthPark won't for the same reason.

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I disagree and that is not the case about being Charlotte's first edge city.  First there was Park Road Shopping Center, then later CharlotteTown Mall.  They were there decades before Southpark and neither area became "buckheads" despite being in better areas for this to have happened.  SouthPark won't for the same reason.

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Sure, ok. :)

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My guess is that Southpark will continue to "grow up" despite Charlotte's transit planning. The Southpark area is one of the most desirable (depending on who you ask) residential areas in the city. Even if South Blvd's light rail corridor (or the other corridors) works out for the best, I'm betting that people who have the money to live in the Southpark area will continue to do so... at an increased pace. Thus, the demand for housing around Southpark and the lack of open land will mean... condo towers. Although, I can't imagine Southpark ever reaching the critical mass/density of Buckhead.

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My guess is that Southpark will continue to "grow up" despite Charlotte's transit planning.  The Southpark area is one of the most desirable (depending on who you ask) residential areas in the city.  Even if South Blvd's light rail corridor (or the other corridors) works out for the best, I'm betting that people who have the money to live in the Southpark area will continue to do so... at an increased pace.  Thus, the demand for housing around Southpark and the lack of open land will mean... condo towers.  Although, I can't imagine Southpark ever reaching the critical mass/density of Buckhead.

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I agree....I think it is Buckhead esque', but not Buckhead. I still can see towers growing out of the ground within the next 3-6 years.

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None of the other shopping areas had the additional infrastructure necessary. The whole area was master planned by Johnny Harris who spent considerable personal money to establish the infrastructure necessary......compare that to Eastland where no consideration was given to infrastructure (if fact, the developer had the city foot the bill to get Sharon Amity widened) and you can see the difference.

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None of the other shopping areas had the additional infrastructure necessary.  The whole area was master planned by Johnny Harris who spent considerable personal money to establish the infrastructure necessary......compare that to Eastland where no consideration was given to infrastructure (if fact, the developer had the city foot the bill to get Sharon Amity widened) and you can see the difference.

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I don't think so. When South park was built there was just Sharon Road and Park Road/Fairview. These were neighborhood roads. As I said earlier it was a congested traffic mess long ago. Harris did not build any of the road system that is there today.

I did not mention Eastland, BTW. However in 1979 when they finished it, it had better roads going to it than Southpark had at the time.

Park Road Shopping Center was also located on Park Road and had close access to South Blvd via Woodlawn. Better than more remote SP.

Charlottetown mall was located on old Independence Blvd (it doesn't exist in that form now) This was some of the best infrastructure in the city at the time.

Of course I've never been good a predicting what happens in Charlotte. :blush:

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I agree....I think it is Buckhead esque', but not Buckhead. I still can see towers growing out of the ground within the next 3-6 years.

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Are you crazy? Buckhead esque'? Buckhead is a wee bit more than a few office buildings and shopping mall. There are more bars/restuarants in 1 block in Buckhead compared to all of SouthPark (There are 100 bars and restaurants within 2 1/2 blocks).

Buckheads shopping is off the charts. SouthPark is getting better but we're not close to Buckhead esque'. Lenox mall is what SP strives to be and Phipps plaza is like nothing we have here.

Hotels? Come on. Buckhead has the Ritz, Swiss

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Are you crazy?  Buckhead esque'?  Buckhead is a wee bit more than a few office buildings and shopping mall.  There are more bars/restuarants in 1 block in Buckhead compared to all of SouthPark (There are 100 bars and restaurants within 2 1/2 blocks). 

Buckheads shopping is off the charts.  SouthPark is getting better but we're not close to Buckhead esque'.  Lenox mall is what SP strives to be and Phipps plaza is like nothing we have here.

Hotels?  Come on.  Buckhead has the Ritz, Swiss

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First Off, I appreciate the feedback. I grew up in Atlanta and saw Buckhead 20 years ago. I agree that it does not compare to the current day Buckhead. However, I am not trying to claim that it is anything close. I am simply suggesting similarities. And on a side note, Buckhead was much, much smaller in the 70's and 80's. I was there I know. I see the exact same pattern in Southpark as I did in Buckhead twenty years back. I think personally that Buckhead has fallen very far from the upscale area it once was. I was in Atlanta just three weeks ago and went to some of the clubs in the area. Specifically Fudo's (great bar), but there are areas that are simply not safe. I was very dissappointed. I was almost shocked that the place that I once knew for a great night life had taken a serious turn for the worse. This is the reason Atlanta is what it is. It is like a tree and its rings. The inside dies and the outer rings are where the life is. Atlanta's race problem is a big problem. I stayed at the Ritz just four months ago downtown and asked if my car would be safe in the lot across the street. You know what they said. You guessed it no. Charlotte is much different. I can walk around downtown at 2 in the morning and park my car pretty much anywhere and feel good about it. All atlanta has become is a poster child for sprawl. My comparisons are not to show up Buckhead. Heck I know Southpark is no Buckhead. In my honest opinion it is much, much better. (and by the way I walk to the mall once a week. I live at the Colony. I can throw a stone to Hecht's. The population within a 2 mile radius of the mall is quite dense. One of the densest areas in CLT. check it out)

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One other FACT that I did not point out is that the Southpark area has more office space than all of downtown Raleigh. It is a bit more than just a couple of buildings and would definately be more than one block of Buckhead. And one other important fact is that the vacancy in Buckhead is astounding. They typically run a 18-20% rate, compared to a mere 7-8% vacancy of Southpark. Reason being. You guessed it again, SPRAWL. Business continue to push the boundries of Atlanta further out. I bet in twenty years Atlanta will basically ba all of North GA.

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One other FACT that I did not point out is that the Southpark area has more office space than all of downtown Raleigh. It is a bit more than just a couple of buildings and would definately be more than one block of Buckhead. And one other important fact is that the vacancy in Buckhead is astounding. They typically run a 18-20% rate, compared to a mere 7-8% vacancy of Southpark. Reason being. You guessed it again, SPRAWL. Business continue to push the boundries of Atlanta further out. I bet in twenty years Atlanta will basically ba all of North GA.

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I don't see any comparison to Buckhead. If you HAD to compare Buckhead to somewhere in Charlotte it would be Southpark...but no one outside of CLT will ever say they show any similiarities other than they share a few names at the mall.

Anyways I am not bashing SouthPark...I have lived and worked in SP for 7+ years and love the area. But I don't think it resembles Buckhead in any way, shape, or form.

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I don't see any comparison to Buckhead.  If you HAD to compare Buckhead to somewhere in Charlotte it would be Southpark...but no one outside of CLT will ever say they show any similiarities other than they share a few names at the mall. 

Anyways I am not bashing SouthPark...I have lived and worked in SP for 7+ years and love the area.  But I don't think it resembles Buckhead in any way, shape, or form.

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Believe me. I agree with you 100%. When I started this thread, I called it Southpark (Charlotte's Buckhead). In many ways they are similiar. But in many, ways they are totally different. However, I am not trying to debate the Atlanta versus Charlotte issue. I really was just trying to emphasize the growth of Southpark over the last few years and where it is heading. I lived in Atlanta much longer than I have lived in CLT, and I see a similar growth pattern in CLT that ATL had in the 70's. I think if we could turn the page, and jump ahead to the year 2020, you would see Southpark resemble the Buckhead of today. It will be forced simply by the market. I think the layout will be much different. Buckhead is much more Linear and its growth was dictated by Peachtree St. and the mall. SP is set up with main roads (ie Sharon, Fairview, Colony, etc.) that make it more square in its development pattern. I truly believe you will see a mini city develop around the perimeter of the mall itself. And yes I do believe high-rises will be a part of that growth. Simon has already announced that they would like to build a high rise condo project between morrison and sharon and there are currently 4 10-12 story mid-rises going up on Assembly and Fairview (there have over 8 cranes on the site right now as I type). The writing is on the wall. As soon as the last parcel of residential is auctioned off along Fairview you will see the land between Fairview and Park quikly developed into more office space. On a side note an entire neighborhood is considering selling out to a developer if the price is right. Once again the market will control what happens. I really do not want to argue the obvious. Buckhead is much larger, and for that I am not jealous. I like SP and its set-up much more. The qaulity of development will be quite stong in SP. The money makers of this city will see to it. Buckhead can stay Buckhead, but I am excited to see the birth of something neat. To me it is exciting. :)

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Gofightwin - this isn't a competition between the two, in my opinion both aren't that great to begin with - as Buckhead is particularly a horrid model of an edge city (or maybe a perfect model). But at least you & monsoon do agree in the sense you both feel they are not comparable.

But I disagree with some people's opinion of the concept of 'comparisons', by suggesting a comparison you are not assuming they are of equal value. Though some comparisons are completely laughable 'Atlanta the NYC of the south' that doesn't mean you can't compare traits. In my view, I think there are similar traits between SouthPark & Buckhead, but that's just my wacky view... ;)

Edited by teshadoh

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The building that will go up at "Holiday Park" (at the corner of Morrison and Sharon) will be four/five stories. Retail on the bottom, apartments above. I've seen the model and it's what you'd expect for SouthPark.

With current zoning restrictions, SouthPark will never be Buckhead...thank God. If you ever want to see a REAL traffic nightmare, drive Peachtree through Buckhead on any day or night of the week.

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The building that will go up at "Holiday Park" (at the corner of Morrison and Sharon) will be four/five stories.
Edited by A219724

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qsi_building.JPG

Here is the one of the Buildings I am refering to. The complex going up across the street is also going to be quite impressive.

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