SouthPark neighborhood Projects

[atlrvr]

This update is for you StevenRocks.

In today's Charlotte Business Journal print edition, it was rumored by South Park sources that Hermes, Prada, and Armani Exchange will be opening in the new Neiman Marcus wing.

monsoon.....3 more reasons for you to avoid SouthPark.

[monsoon]

monsoon.....3 more reasons for you to avoid SouthPark.

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[DigitalSky]

This update is for you StevenRocks.

In today's Charlotte Business Journal print edition, it was rumored by South Park sources that Hermes, Prada, and Armani Exchange will be opening in the new Neiman Marcus wing.

monsoon.....3 more reasons for you to avoid SouthPark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did anyone hear the Gucci rumor?

[StevenRocks]

This update is for you StevenRocks.

In today's Charlotte Business Journal print edition, it was rumored by South Park sources that Hermes, Prada, and Armani Exchange will be opening in the new Neiman Marcus wing.

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That's great news!! Thanks atlrvr!

[infobuff]

Did anyone hear the Gucci rumor?

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I have not, but I've been long wondering. Do you know anything?

[CLTfanatic]

What else is there that SouthPark wont have if they get those 4 stores?

[atlrvr]

Well....stores that haven't been announced that are typically in high-end malls, I would say Hugo Boss, Chanel, and Versace are the 3 most recognizable.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

What else is there that SouthPark wont have if they get those 4 stores?

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You want a list??? Armani, Emporio Armani, Celine, Saks, Barneys, Michael Kors, Christian Dior, Yves Saint Laurent... I could go on. There is so much out there! Piazza Sempione recently began opening boutiques, so there is now hope for one. Even stores like Judith Leiber or Cartier or Jimmy Choo or Manolo Blahnik. There is so much missing. Someone should build one gigantic mega-mall -- just for me. I would be very happy with a Barneys. Jones Apparel Group plans to double the number of flagships in the next few years, so there is definitely hope for a Barneys in Charlotte. It should be located somewhere Uptown, IMO. That would be PERFECT. Can you imagine the retailers that would locate Uptown if Barneys did? *sigh* A girl can dream.

I would be so happy to see Prada and Hermes here. No waiting list for Birkins! I'm not too excited about A|X. This better not be a rumour. I'm kicking the a$$ of whoever started it for getting my hopes up...

[nyxmike]

I'm excited about A/X. Some of their stuff is a little too ridiculous, like short sleeve hoodies (whats the point?), but if you look, they have some pretty nice t-shirts and button downs.

Even though people tend to look over a lot of these stores, I think it says a lot about a city. Plus, it will help Charlotte become more of a shopping destination in the Southeast. I'm pretty sure there is a gap in these stores between D.C. and Atlanta.

[atlrvr]

I think the real benefit to these stores is just what Mike said....it fills a gap between Washington and Atlanta.........we will be the closest location to Columbia, Greenville, Spartanburg, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Raleigh for these high-end retailers......including Charlotte, that's about 6M-7M people living in urbanized areas (presumeably the people that would be most likely to shop at these retailers) It could be a huge benefit to Charlotte's sales tax base (and possibly hotel tax), but the sales tax directly effects our transit plan......more retail sales = more rails.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

I'm excited about A/X. Some of their stuff is a little too ridiculous, like short sleeve hoodies (whats the point?), but if you look, they have some pretty nice t-shirts and button downs.

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Well, A|X carries better clothes for men than for women. Most of their women's stuff is just a little too young for me. I shop at Emporio more than A|X or even GA Boutique. Emporio is just slightly cutting edge yet still classic. I do love love love their makeup line. It's still hard to get. I'm hoping Nordstrom or NM will carry it eventually. Atlanta will have it after Saks remodels, so that's something at least.

I think the real benefit to these stores is just what Mike said....it fills a gap between Washington and Atlanta.........we will be the closest location to Columbia, Greenville, Spartanburg, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Raleigh for these high-end retailers......including Charlotte, that's about 6M-7M people living in urbanized areas (presumeably the people that would be most likely to shop at these retailers)  It could be a huge benefit to Charlotte's sales tax base (and possibly hotel tax), but the sales tax directly effects our transit plan......more retail sales = more rails.

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Yeah, but what happens when those cities get the same stores? Raleigh is for sure on the radar of luxury retailers. I recently got into an argument with another woman over the dilution of luxury brands. It's good that they're here in Charlotte, but some retailers are kind of "Wal-Martesque" in their building frenzy. I don't want to see what happened to Saks. I was really disappinted when they closed all those stores...

Atlanta retail has finally started branching out more into other areas. Retail for too long had been concentrated in the Buckhead area that it really became too much. I hope more retail moves further Intown, but this is all OT...

[StevenRocks]

/\ It still will be nice to have some of these boutiques in the area. With or withoutr the Buckhead comparasin.

I doubt if Raleigh will get a Burberry, Vuitton, et al, anythime soon. It's a very different market, demographically and socially.

Take the best Belk in town in Charlotte and Raleigh for example. Both stores are upscale, but Belk SouthPark still tends to stock more and better brands than Hudson Belk Crabtree Valley. Belk has invested a heck of a lot more money in the Charlotte store, too.

[SmellyCat]

You want a list??? Armani, Emporio Armani, Celine, Saks, Barneys, Michael Kors, Christian Dior, Yves Saint Laurent... I could go on. There is so much out there! Piazza Sempione recently began opening boutiques, so there is now hope for one. Even stores like Judith Leiber or Cartier or Jimmy Choo or Manolo Blahnik. There is so much missing. Someone should build one gigantic mega-mall -- just for me.  I would be very happy with a Barneys. Jones Apparel Group plans to double the number of flagships in the next few years, so there is definitely hope for a Barneys in Charlotte. It should be located somewhere Uptown, IMO. That would be PERFECT. Can you imagine the retailers that would locate Uptown if Barneys did? *sigh* A girl can dream.

I would be so happy to see Prada and Hermes here. No waiting list for Birkins! I'm not too excited about A|X. This better not be a rumour. I'm kicking the a$$ of whoever started it for getting my hopes up...

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girly, what on God's green earth is your monthly credit card bill for clothes? I think it's women of your ilk who are propping up an otherwise lackluster U.S economy!

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Stevenrocks, Raleigh has a good enough MSA to get a Neiman Marcus. They're actively looking for space from what I hear. They already have Saks -- something Charlotte most likely won't be getting any time soon. (Saks has cooled on opening new stores for now...)

girly, what on God's green earth is your monthly credit card bill for clothes?  I think it's women of your ilk who are propping up an otherwise lackluster U.S economy!

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Oh, we don't want to go there. Let's just say I do my part. Fashion is my hobby. I love to buy clothes, makeup, bags and shoes... I even take shopping "vacations". That, btw, is something Charlotte should look into doing. Promoting the city as a shopping destination has really helped Tampa. They have discount packages where you can fly in and stay near the mall.

One more thing: is there anyone here who has connections with the city? I've been thinking more about Barneys in Charlotte. That's something I think the city should pursue. The company is looking to expand, why not court them now? And Jones Group definitely has their eye on the SE. Miami is a definite future location, but they're looking for other places in the south. A location Uptown would be just what Charlotte needs... Ok, I'm dresaming again.

[DigitalSky]

I agree ^ with you about Charlotte needing more uptown. I was at Speed Street this weekend and there's barely any uptown shopping which is very unfortunate, and being uptown made me realize (even though it is 5 miles) how far away SouthPark is and the Uptown infrastructure could support more than the Overstreet...

[infobuff]

/\  It still will be nice to have some of these boutiques in the area.  With or withoutr the Buckhead comparasin.

I doubt if Raleigh will get a Burberry, Vuitton, et al, anythime soon.  It's a very different market, demographically and socially.

Take the best Belk in town in Charlotte and Raleigh for example.  Both stores are upscale, but Belk SouthPark still tends to stock more and better brands than Hudson Belk Crabtree Valley.  Belk has invested a heck of a lot more money in the Charlotte store, too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you about that. From what I've read, the high end boutiques are more attracted to the upper income more than the upper middle income. Also regarding Saks, I think they will come to markets with a decent upper middle income, plus I think they have different level of stores based on the market. Just look at the markets the've come to in the past couple of years. Not to say that others in the state won't get the high end boutiques, I think overall Charlotte may be alone for a while. I found this link to the Business Journal that explains it a little more.

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...ry4.html?page=1

[atlrvr]

infobuff.......exactly.....the Median Household Income (MHI) isn't a huge concern to luxury retailers......the number they look at the number of people making over $100k....and some (Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Prada, etc.) look at how many people are making more than $150k.

While Charlotte does actually have a lower MHI than Raleigh, it crushes Raleigh in terms of people in the truly high-income segment.

Edited May 28, 2005 by atlrvr

[monsoon]

One more thing: is there anyone here who has connections with the city?

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They prefer to remain silent.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

I agree with you about that.  From what I've read, the high end boutiques are more attracted to the upper income more than the upper middle income.  Also regarding Saks, I think they will come to markets with a decent upper middle income, plus I think they have different level of stores based on the market.  Just look at the markets the've come to in the past couple of years.  Not to say that others in the state won't get the high end boutiques, I think overall Charlotte may be alone for a while.  I found this link to the Business Journal that explains it a little more.

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...ry4.html?page=1

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First, not all luxury stores use the same data. They do have different criteria. Second, we need to understand that not all Saks store openings occurred under the current owner. And yes, they do have different levels of stores. However, it is my understanding that most of the Proffitt's/Saks Inc. stores were opened as 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier stores. The only flagships are in cities like Atlanta. (Opened in 1968 under previous owner not Saks Inc.) Saks not opening a store in Charlotte has nothing to do with upper income vs. upper middle income. They had the opportunity to open in both Raleigh and Charlotte. It was a matter of circumstance that the Charlotte store did not open. It had absolutely nothing to do with Raleigh being an upper middle income area. Saks may open in Charlotte, but it won't be any time soon because they've decided as a company to hold off on expansion for a while and improve stores that are already open. That's all.

Can I make a suggestion? Please subscribe to or check a local library to find Women's Wear Daily. They offer the very best coverage of the luxury retail market. Not even the retail trades understand this market as well. The article you posted is good, but the author has such a limited understanding of how this market works. (Like, Burberry opening stores based on the strength of their beauty division sales....) Also, most of the luxury goods companies are foreign owned. The foreign media services have better, more accurate coverage of those companies. (Like why Prada Group is looking for a buyer for Helmut Lang. Or how the Jil Sander split will affect boutiques.) You can see Charlotte's future in luxury retail easily this way is all I'm suggesting.

[StevenRocks]

Stevenrocks, Raleigh has a good enough MSA to get a Neiman Marcus. They're actively looking for space from what I hear. They already have Saks -- something Charlotte most likely won't be getting any time soon.  (Saks has cooled on opening new stores for now...)

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You're right about Raleigh's potential, girly. You've got a better finger on the pulse of luxury retail than I have (and that's saying something ). I'm having trouble visualizing it for whatever reason. That said, the soon to be vacated Lord & Taylor at Crabtree would be a great spot for NM.

You should note that Saks at Triangle Town Center has cut its hours and business is described by an employee as "in spurts." I think they chose the wrong mall. And Lord & Taylor hasn't exactly set sales records in the Triangle. But then again Crate & Barrel and Nordstom seem to be doing serious business. We'll see what happens.

I need to add WWD to my subscription list; I'm probably missing some good information. Thanks for the tip.

[appatone]

Someone mentioned a Gucci store in Charlotte. I just thought I would add that Charleston already has a Gucci store so I'm not sure Gucci would want another store so close.

One other thought... I know you want a Barney's Uptown but the Dick's spot in SouthPark may be available in a few years. I wonder if the security of SP would bring them to the mall?

Edited May 29, 2005 by appatone

[StevenRocks]

Someone mentioned a Gucci store in Charlotte.  I just thought I would add that Charleston already has a Gucci store so I'm not sure Gucci would want another store so close.

One other thought... I know you want a Barney's Uptown but the Dick's spot in SouthPark may be available in a few years.  I wonder if the security of SP would bring them to the mall?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charlotte and Charleston are both destination cities, and several hours apart at that. Gucci could work in Charlotte.

I've said in other threads that Dick's would probably be replaced by Saks Fifth Avenue at SouthPark in a few years, but Barneys is a good possibility as well.

[DigitalSky]

How many cities have Barney's? and how many are Charlotte's size?

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Stevenrocks, the only thing that has proven a hindrance to Charlotte getting Saks is Saks current financial woes. When Proffitt's bought Saks in '98, they quickly began an enormous expansion within two years. They've since closed most of those stores. Raleigh lucked out. If Saks had been able to find a suitable location earlier, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It will happen for Charlotte eventually, but right now Saks Inc. is spending resources on increasing merchandise in and remodeling the high performing stores.

L&T has largely moved out of the south. They've closed all but a few of those stores. Those stores were supposed to close eventually, but with the Federated/May merger, the future of those stores is uncertain. That merger will bring a Macy's to this area for sure. Possibly a Bloomingdale's in the future. That could be a possibility for one of Northlake's anchors, but no plans as to which May stores will convert are firm until next year.

Appatone, there is a Gucci close to Charleston in Atlanta. There are also Gucci boutiques in Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and Palm Beach -- 3 cities that are relatively close. They've never been opposed to placing the same store nearby. Gucci is PPR's biggest performer. It's the brand that expands it's boutiques the most, too. As an example, PPR also owns Balenciaga, Stella McCartney, Alexander McQueen and Yves Saint Laurent. But you rarely see any of those stores outside NYC. But you can find a Gucci in nearly every city.

How many cities have Barney's? and how many are Charlotte's size?

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Besides a couple of suburbs, none. Barneys only has stores in 4 major cities -- NYC, LA, Chicago and Seattle. There are 2 stores in suburbs -- Chestnut Hill (Boston) and Manhasset (NYC). The previous owners of Barneys closed a number of stores before the company was sold to Jones Apparel Group. JAG plans to more than double the number of flagship stores in the next 3 years. They're looking to the SE first. Miami is a definite and yesterday I learned from a source that the Barneys people were recently at Lenox in Atlanta scouting a location for a flagship. Charlotte could have a very good chance since Simon has already met with them. But JAG has a big expansion planned for American cities right now. My hopes are up for one in Charlotte at some point.

[StevenRocks]

^ girly, you're a knockout.