SouthPark neighborhood Projects

[monsoon]

I just wanted to debate for the fun of it since I was bored.

A2

[Lady Celeste]

A2 said:

correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Uptown Charlotte have more occupied space in Uptown than Downtown Atlanta?

A2

then atlrvr said:

As far as occupied space it's probably pretty close.....according to one submarket definition of downtown Altanta yes...another no. We have about 13.5M square feet of occupied multi-tenant office space.....the most generous number for downtown Atlanta would put them around 16M occupied.....it'll get closer with the Wachovia Tower, but keep in mind they are finishing two office towes (in the 12-15 story range) in downtown......ultimately Charlotte' downtown will probably surpass Atlanta's "downtown" but never downtown and midtown merged....and SouthPark will never come close to Buckhead which just has so much more area to build and better transportation access.

then A2 said:

I would agree with all of these comments. I am just playing the numbers game, but clearly realize that Atlanta's TOTAL office space is much greater than that of CLT.

We have a lot of submarkets (Ballyntyne, SP, etc etc)

But ATL has midtown and Buckhead, Perimeter etc etc that put them well above our total numbers. I still think Charlotte's Uptown will stay marginally ahead of ATL's Downtown. (you can thank sprawl for Atlanta's significant downtown vacancies)

A2

This is soooooo off topic but it gives figures for Atlanta's office markets. I guess I'm like you A2 and I like the numbers game too. Since Atlanta's markets have been mentioned here, I thought to compile the info and place it here. You guys have really good conversations up here in Charlotte.

A2 here is a breakdown of Atlanta's largest submarkets rentable office space.

Atlanta Submarket.....No of Bldgs.....rentable SF inventory....vacant SF.......% vacant...SF under construction

Downtown..................53..................16,769,775....................4,05

8,716......24.2%............621,440

Midtown.....................60..................12,998,963....................2,

356,154.......18.1%...........962,139

Buckhead...................56..................11,614,063...................2,02

8,187.......17.5%............724,184

Perimeter Center........134.................22,518,637...................5,284,995.......2

3.5%.....................0

Cumberland/Galleria...164.................22,744,725...................4,522,482.......19.9

%.....................0

North Fulton...............155................16,507,739....................3,705,497.

......22.4%...........202,000

Northeast/Gwinnett.....162................11,552,078....................2,456,671.......21

.3%..........173,462

Northlake...................122.................9,780,451.....................1,

700,595.......17.4%...........163,631

These are the major office markets. There are The source of my information came from www.advantisgva.com. These numbers are from the thrid quarter of 2005. I relied on their research and will not stake my life on the correctness of thier information.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Area | No of Buildings | Rentable SF | vacant SF | % vacant

Uptown | 50 | 14,416,071 | 1,032,341 | 7.2%

For Comparison purposes. These numbers are from the 1st quarter of 2005.

http://www.charlottechamber.com/content.cf...content_id=1503

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That Perimeter area alone almost equals all of suburban Charlotte's leaseable office space (25,378,854 sq ft) .

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Is most of suburban Charlotte's office space owned by the companies themselves?

Edited December 2, 2005 by moonshield

[krazeeboi]

Maybe I'm missing or misinterpreting something, but according to this Colliers Keenan 2005 Mid-Year Office Market report, Columbia's CBD has 4.49M sq ft with 3.90M sq ft occupied. I don't think this includes current projects. Charlotte's 2005 Mid-Year report lists SouthPark at 3.75M sq ft. of office space. Greenville's CBD currently has 2.98M sq ft of inventory space, but this doesn't include several projects underway proposed to boost that figure in the near future. I had to throw this in because we speak of "both Carolinas" and only give stats for Charlotte and Raleigh as if that's all there is to "the Carolinas."

Edited December 3, 2005 by krazeeboi

[dubone]

I'd be interested to see how Winston stands currently in the amount of occupied space.

I have been in both the Winston Tower and the main Wachovia building in Winston, and both are extremely under-populated. I think Wachovia has slowly reduced employment in the city for a number of years.

It is possible that BB&T has increased employment enough to compensate, and keep occupied space up. However, I suspect that vacancy rates are very high in the city.

I think that is a huge shame, as I like the city of Winston, but I would suspect that the current occupied space in downtown W-S is actually lower than SP's. (That is an opinion ).

Edited December 3, 2005 by dubone

[infobuff]

http://www.colliers.com/Content/Repositori..._off_report.pdf

Thanks A2 for posting this website. It is very informative.

[A2]

I did not know anywhere else to put this so I am putting it here in the SPMall thread.

Does anyboby know what project is going on directly accross from Phillips Place ?

There is a HUGE amount of land being developed directly off of Fairview. It is in plain view from the road. It looked to be an area around 10 acres or so that has heavy earth movng equipment on it and grading has oobviously started.

Does anyone know if this is office, residential, retail, or all of the above???

It is a HUGE site..

on PRIME Real Estate

A2

Edited March 12, 2006 by A2

[DigitalSky]

I *think* it's just offices, but i'm not 100% sure on that.

[atlrvr]

I've been trying to find out about this.....I think it will be for medical offices, but I'm still digging.

[A2]

I've been trying to find out about this.....I think it will be for medical offices, but I'm still digging.

I think you are right atlrvr...That seems to fit the theme of what is already around there.

I was really hoping to see something else, but heck I will take it I guess.

BTW, any word on a buyer for the property across from the LaPetite on Park and Fairview???

That land seems to be perfect for some more office and/or retail. I think someone should bulldoze the LaPetite while they are at it. It is a totally under-utilized piece of land on such a valuable corner in the SP area.

A2

Edited March 12, 2006 by A2

[Greens!]

I dont know if it has been said but if South Park is to become like Buckhead, it needs better access to a freeway.

[GoFightWin]

BTW, any word on a buyer for the property across from the LaPetite on Park and Fairview???

That land seems to be perfect for some more office and/or retail. I think someone should bulldoze the LaPetite while they are at it. It is a totally under-utilized piece of land on such a valuable corner in the SP area.

A2

That site might be under-utilized, but...it borders next to the poop plant. If you haven't driven by on a hot august afternoon...please do. Ugh. Honestly I don't know how people live in those townhomes across the street in the middle of summer. Whatever might take over the day care almost certainly wouldn't be some grand plan. IMHO that is...

[DigitalSky]

I dont know if it has been said but if South Park is to become like Buckhead, it needs better access to a freeway.

I don't see where they would put that...

[stateman99]

Does anyboby know what project is going on directly accross from Phillips Place ?

A2

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14115703.htm

This answers the question i think.

[dubone]

Thanks SM99. It is a bit of a yawner, but at least it is more jobs located in a somewhat compact area.

[UrbanCharlotte]

Well i'm glad to have heard this, as I think Southpark will become a seconday skyline to uptown. I heard a high-rise condo tower is in the works for Southpark. I'm sure there is more info known, but thats all I found out. Possibly Novare. I'd expect an announcement in around the next 3-8 weeks. Vague, yes, but I didn't get a lot of info. If indeed novare, I hope it is like some of the stuff they are planning in Buckhead. I wouldnt mind a 20 some story tower so others will also step up. What are the height restrictions for this area?

[rockhilljames]

It is Novare.

I don't know the location.

[DigitalSky]

I didn't know there were height restrictions in SouthPark.

[atlrvr]

Yep...it's Novare. They were planning twin towers....I think it has since been changed to one wider tower.

[UrbanCharlotte]

I'd expect this to sell pretty fast in this area. Hope it's pretty nice, and fits in. Anyone hear anything about height, couldn't get that info.

[stateman99]

Is there any posting for the South Park area of the current layout and future building plans like we have for downtown. This area is of particular interest as much building as they are doing.

[rockhilljames]

It remains to be seen how the folks in South Park react to the announcement. From what I heard Novare was planning a 25 - 32 story tower.

I think anything that tall is going to generate a fair amount of protest in the area, more than they're prepared for, I'm betting. I'm sure they aren't used to getting push back for projects like this in Atlanta. My gut is that we'll see a 15 - 25 story tower.

Of course, I had no idea that they were planning two towers, so what do I know?

[A2]

A tower is also being constructed on the Morrison Site. I think SP's skyline will be limited in height to say 20-22 stories, but could easily have one, possibly two, prolific towers similar to the Perimeter area in Atlanta. I liken SP to Perimeter, but with closer proximity to the Urban core making it a true Urban Enclave of Charlotte,. I am not a fan of a satelite city off of a Loop Interstate like Perimeter in ATL or, in the case of Charlotte, Ballantyne.

A2

Edited April 15, 2006 by A2

[UrbanCharlotte]

Yea, today was the first time i've really just walked around Southpark in a while looking at the development not in the mall. I was surprised at what I haven't seen before. With so many projects going on right now with what's already there made it feel like I was in a part of uptown. The views to downtown from some parts are also incredible. A Novare resi. tower would be awesome. Wonder where they'd put it.

[A2]

Yea, today was the first time i've really just walked around Southpark in a while looking at the development not in the mall. I was surprised at what I haven't seen before. With so many projects going on right now with what's already there made it feel like I was in a part of uptown. The views to downtown from some parts are also incredible. A Novare resi. tower would be awesome. Wonder where they'd put it.

Behind the Fairview Towers. There is a ton of land that is hidden from Fairview. There a few other spots that look ripe, but from what I understand that is where the core of density will be. I would not be at all surprized to see Development bleed further down Fairview towards park. There is already a lot for sale accross the street from the LaPetite and stink plant, but I am not sure of its Zoning.

In the end I believe that SP will be continuous sea of development from Prvidence Rd west toward Park all the way down towards Montford and well past Woodlawn. It is a HUGE area of retail, office and resi, that is only getting more dense.

I just hope the city realizes the need for a transit spur down Park or Tyvola. Even if it is just BRT, it still needs something. However, I would love to see a light rail stop.

A2

Edited April 15, 2006 by A2