Visions For Atlanta

[Lady Celeste]

There are civil war area markers all over the Atlanta Metro Area. If someone is a history buff they will know this and they can easily seek those markers out. Also, can someone sayyyyyyyyyyyyy Stone Mountain. You know, that big granite mountain on Atlanta's eastside. At 800 feet tall, it's kind of hard to miss it.

Memorial Dr is another remnant of the civil war. The Civil War divided our country. It was an event that took place and we have healed from that division. I'm trying to figure out how to honor it.

I wonder if there is a monument in the United Kingdom that honors the Independence War. I'm not trying to be funny I'm really brainstorming. The only monument of honor I can think of in a place that lost a conflict is in Berlin, Germany. If I'm not mistaken...and I may be....it's called the Gedaisnische Kirche. It's not however honoring the actions of the Third Riech but rather keeping a reminder of what can happen in war.

I would be curious though LizellaJacket or Cosmoboy, in what way would this honoring take place? Do you guys have any solutions?

[krazeeboi]

While the south did some things that weren't exactly "right." We should still honor the confederacy for expressing for what they thought was "right." I am not saying that slavery was right i'm just saying that I respect people who stand up for what they beleive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh OK, you're right...I see how important that is now.

Please. (minus the smile)

All of this simply amounts to being sincerely wrong, which is true of a lot of people today in the world. I honor no one for simply "believing" something and expressing that belief; it is the content of their belief which determines whether or not it is honored in my eyes. We must remember the Civil War, but in NO WAY should we glorify or even honor it. That's my position and it will not change.

[teshadoh]

Celeste, I never thought about it - but I guess Memorial Drive is indeed memorialization for the Confederate dead, I never thought what the street was named for. But considering it was originally Fair St for a long time until the early 1900's, I suppose that makes sense - I live near Memorial Dr by the way.

Of course there is also Confederate Ave in south Atlanta & a number of other streets that most have forgotten who they were named for - like General Forrest.

But lastly, as for memorializing the Confederate dead, is anyone arguing that a modern memorial be provided for them? Doesn't anyone think that there are already enough memorials for the Civil War in the South? Why build anymore - why not the Revolutionary War, a war that has a far larger impact on our society.

[krazeeboi]

But lastly, as for memorializing the Confederate dead, is anyone arguing that a modern memorial be provided for them?  Doesn't anyone think that there are already enough memorials for the Civil War in the South?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They can have the Confederate memorial on the SC statehouse grounds if they want another memorial.

Why build anymore - why not the Revolutionary War, a war that has a far larger impact on our society.

Right--a war that we WON, for one.

[cosmoboy]

Oh OK, you're right...I see how important that is now.

Please.  (minus the smile)

All of this simply amounts to being sincerely wrong, which is true of a lot of people today in the world. I honor no one for simply "believing" something and expressing that belief; it is the content of their belief which determines whether or not it is honored in my eyes. We must remember the Civil War, but in NO WAY should we glorify or even honor it. That's my position and it will not change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well then may i ask you a question krazee? why are you even down here living in the south if you don't condone what our forefathers did? actually, slavery is why we have such great diversity in our country ( i'm not condoning slavery in any way). If jefferson hadn't gone over to africa to get all the black people then we wouldn't nearly have half of today's black population in our country! If you wan't to criticize how my relatives and other people's family did stuff back in those days then I suggest you stay above the mason-dixon line!

[cosmoboy]

I would be curious though LizellaJacket or Cosmoboy, in what way would this honoring take place? Do you guys have any solutions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm confused lady celeste? what did you exactly mean by when you said that?

[krazeeboi]

well then may i ask you a question krazee? why are you even down here living in the south if you don't condone what our forefathers did? actually, slavery is why we have such great diversity in our country ( i'm not condoning slavery in any way). If jefferson hadn't gone over to africa to get all the black people then we wouldn't nearly have half of today's black population in our country! If you wan't to criticize how my relatives and other people's family did stuff back in those days then I suggest you stay above the mason-dixon line!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why am I living in the south if I don't condone what "our" forefathers did? I'm living in the South because I was born and raised here. It has nothing to do with what YOUR forefathers did (as my parents or grandparents could have moved before I was even born). If I took that approach, then I might as well move out of the country. In spite of the history of the South, I still love it. That doesn't mean that I agree with or approve of everything that has happened in the past.

And what the hell does diversity have to do with this? And how dare you take this "You ought to thank us" approach? I suggest you DROP that while you are ahead.

I've said this before (not on this forum), and I'll say it now: people do NOT need to be proud of everything their ancestors did. Have the guts to stand up and say that they were wrong in some of their actions. They were human just like you. They were wrong, get over it. We live in the 21st century now dude; I suggest you catch up.

With all of this nonsense you're spewing (and I didn't think that people who held these views even had access to a computer), I would've thought you were being educated at Ole Miss and not UNC. Speaking of which, since you're in Chapel Hill, shouldn't you be hugging endangered indigenous shrubbery of some sort?

Now what I have just said is the "nice" version; please don't make me "go there" with you, 'cause if I do, someone's feelings will get hurt and they will NOT be mine.

[Spartan]

Now what I have just said is the "nice" version; please don't make me "go there" with you, 'cause if I do, someone's feelings will get hurt and they will NOT be mine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There will be no going anywhere by anyone. Your comments were somewhat justified. Any further personal attacks will result in a suspension.

I find your debate on a Civil War monument in Atlanta interesting. I don't really have any input on it, other than this: you should respect all soldiers who died in any war, regardless of its cause. That is why the monument in Berlin should be there, and that is why the momument in Columbia should be there. Do Northern states honor their soldiers that died in the Civil War? I bet they do. If not, then shame on them.

[krazeeboi]

There will be no going anywhere by anyone. Your comments were somewhat justified. Any further personal attacks will result in a suspension.

As long as there will be no more patronizing on the part of cosmoboy. Let's keep all things fair here. I did not appreciate his comments and found them insulting to say the least.

you should respect all soldiers who died in any war, regardless of its cause. That is why the monument in Berlin should be there, and that is why the momument in Columbia should be there. Do Northern states honor their soldiers that died in the Civil War? I bet they do. If not, then shame on them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spartan, with all due respect (and I do respect you), it is not your place to tell me who I should and should not respect (within this particular context). I will personally make that decision. I'm sure everyone who died in a war felt as though their cause was just, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was. I stand by my original comments.

And I also do not think that something as controversial and divisive as a Confederate monument should be displayed on state government property.

As Teshadoh has stated, why not a focus on Revolutionary War monuments?

[teshadoh]

^ THough, I admit for Atlanta - Revolutionary War memorials are out of place, as the Civil War had a real impact on Atlanta. BUT - I think we are going off target, there are ALREADY memorials to the Civil War, the BIG question is that do people really feel there should be NEW memorials. If we should go back & memorialize anyone - it should be (for Atlanta) - slavery & the eradication of the Creeks & Cherokees from the area.

But lastly, when Cosmoboy started talking about 'forefathers' to Krazee, I really cringed. In all fairness Krazeeboi, give him a break - I admit I was a very sheltered kid growing up in Rock Hill & listened to all the Confederate worship stories my parents told me. But Cosmoboy - the problem that I have with modern memorialization of the Confederacy, is that it only honors roughly half of the Southerners - the other half were Black, Native American or even White Appalachian mountaineers...

[cosmoboy]

With all of this nonsense you're spewing (and I didn't think that people who held these views even had access to a computer), I would've thought you were being educated at Ole Miss and not UNC. Speaking of which, since you're in Chapel Hill, shouldn't you be hugging endangered indigenous shrubbery of some sort?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if you putting down the college I'm going to then why don't you tell us all what college you went to? Enlighten us, krazeeboi!

I now see your point about what you said above. I can understand that, and maybe I was being to much of a southern rebel.

Nevetheless, But, if you wan't to bash me and say i'm a treehugger well i'm sorry to say that i'm not! Not all people at UNC are "endangered shrubbery huggers" as you so wrongfully put! I recommend you get your facts straight too, before you go off half cocked!

[cosmoboy]

There will be no going anywhere by anyone. Your comments were somewhat justified. Any further personal attacks will result in a suspension.

I find your debate on a Civil War monument in Atlanta interesting. I don't really have any input on it, other than this:  you should respect all soldiers who died in any war, regardless of its cause. That is why the monument in Berlin should be there, and that is why the momument in Columbia should be there. Do Northern states honor their soldiers that died in the Civil War? I bet they do. If not, then shame on them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's exactly what I meant but just couldn't think of!

[Lady Celeste]

I'm confused lady celeste? what did you exactly mean by when you said that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As someone who lives in metro Atlanta, I gave you and LizellaJacket several examples of current monuments "honoring" the Civil War veterans that are here right now in metro Atlanta. Teshadoh followed up with further examples.

My question to you is this......LizellaJacket started the whole discussion by saying he/she wished that there were ways of honoring the Civil War in Atlanta like there are things honoring the Civil Rights Movement. You chimed in and agreed. The conversation was pretaining to Atlanta and it's environs. If you agree with this person that Atlanta should have more things honoring the Civil War then my question is "What would you or LizellaJacket like for Atlanta to do and how would this "honor" or "rememberance" take place.......other than what we already have in place?

[cosmoboy]

As someone who lives in metro Atlanta, I gave you and LizellaJacket several examples of current monuments "honoring" the Civil War veterans that are here right now in metro Atlanta. Teshadoh followed up with further examples.

My question to you is this......LizellaJacket started the whole discussion by saying he/she wished that there were ways of honoring the Civil War in Atlanta like there are things honoring the Civil Rights Movement. You chimed in and agreed. The conversation was pretaining to Atlanta and it's environs. If you agree with this person that Atlanta should have more things honoring the Civil War then my question is "What would you or LizellaJacket like for Atlanta to do and how would this "honor" or "rememberance" take place.......other than what we already have in place?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh ok, well...that will take me a little while to think about that

[krazeeboi]

Well, if you putting down the college I'm going to then why don't you tell us all what college you went to? Enlighten us, krazeeboi!

I'm not putting down UNC at all; as a matter of fact, I said that with your views, I wouldn't have thought that you were attending the school since it's known to be progressive and liberal. And as for myself, I graduated from Winthrop University in Rock Hill, SC and will be entering a graduate program there in the fall. Not as well-known as UNC I will admit, but it's a good school nonetheless.

I now see your point about what you said above.  I can understand that, and maybe I was being to much of a southern rebel.

Point taken.

Nevetheless, But, if you wan't to bash me and say i'm a treehugger well i'm sorry to say that i'm not!   Not all people at UNC are "endangered shrubbery huggers" as you so wrongfully put! I recommend you get your facts straight too, before you go off half cocked!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will do next time.

I simply think that several White southerners need to realize that there's MUCH, MUCH more to the South than a war that was fought and lost by the South well over 100 years ago, and certainly not all southerners (especially Blacks) idolize it as though it was some triumphant moment in the history of this nation of which we should be proud. I feel that we should remember it for the sheer historical importance it has, but that's about it. Admittedly, I get incensed when reading some people's views about it--I'm like, "Don't they get it?" I just don't have any type of positive feelings about this subject whatsoever.

[Spartan]

Spartan, with all due respect (and I do respect you), it is not your place to tell me who I should and should not respect (within this particular context). I will personally make that decision. I'm sure everyone who died in a war felt as though their cause was just, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was. I stand by my original comments.

And I also do not think that something as controversial and divisive as a Confederate monument should be displayed on state government property.

As Teshadoh has stated, why not a focus on Revolutionary War monuments?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I meant 'you' in the plural sense, meaning people in general.

I appreciate everyone's respect towards each other and moving past petty insults.

I simply think that several White southerners need to realize that there's MUCH, MUCH more to the South than a war that was fought and lost by the South well over 100 years ago, and certainly not all southerners (especially Blacks) idolize it as though it was some triumphant moment in the history of this nation of which we should be proud. I feel that we should remember it for the sheer historical importance it has, but that's about it. Admittedly, I get incensed when reading some people's views about it--I'm like, "Don't they get it?" I just don't have any type of positive feelings about this subject whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that the Civil War should not be idolized, though it is by some Southerners. What I meant before is that a soldier who dies for his country should be honored.

I believe that half a million people shouldn't just be forgotten and relegated to a few pages in history. The Civil War was the costliest war interms of lives lost that our nation has ever endured. The Confederacy doesn't have to be honored, but the soldiers from both sides should. People seem to want to forget that it ever happened, and I think that it should not. People are fond of commenting on how the US is not perfect these days and we have out darkside too. Well, this was a huge part of it. We don't need any pomp and circumstance around it, but I see no problem with having public monuments recalling what these soldiers died for.

[krazeeboi]

I meant 'you' in the plural sense, meaning people in general.

I stand corrected.

I believe that half a million people shouldn't just be forgotten and relegated to a few pages in history. The Civil War was the costliest war interms of lives lost that our nation has ever endured. The Confederacy doesn't have to be honored, but the soldiers from both sides should. People seem to want to forget that it ever happened, and I think that it should not. People are fond of commenting on how the US is not perfect these days and we have out darkside too. Well, this was a huge part of it. We don't need any pomp and circumstance around it, but I see no problem with having public monuments recalling what these soldiers died for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I don't have a problem with Confederate monuments. As I've said before, that period of our nation's history should NOT be forgotten (as they say, a people that forgets its history is doomed to repeat it). However, I think that such monuments/memorials should not be displayed on public government property. Place them in museums or allow certain groups, like the Sons of the Confederacy, to maintain such relics on private property. But that's just my opinion.

[ironchapman]

What if Atlanta built an elevated train like they have here in Chicago (where I'm on vacation).

[teshadoh]

^ There isn't a need to - besides, Chicago only built the El b/c it was cheaper than building a subway & there wasn't enough land to build it ground level. Otherwise, MARTA is similar to the El in many places, main difference being MARTA owns their own ROW.

Personally - I would say no to it in Atlanta, or most places for that matter.

[teshadoh]

  One thing I wish Atlanta would consider is honoring the Civil War more.  Its history just the same as MLK is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.batlevent.com/main.html

Then you & others would like to come over to East Atlanta for tours, reenactments & commimerations in honor of the 141st anniversary of the Battle of Atlanta.

[LizellaJacket]

Wow didnt know the conversation would drag out on that one comment. What I meant is, Atlanta is losing its Southern appeal. Its not a Southern city anymore. With regards to monuments and what not, the surrender of Atlanta is "shown" by a marker tilted sideways right off the edge of Tech's campus on Marietta St.(I think). No one notices it because its so puny.

[teshadoh]

Wow didnt know the conversation would drag out on that one comment.  What I meant is, Atlanta is losing its Southern appeal.  Its not a Southern city anymore.  With regards to monuments and what not, the surrender of Atlanta is "shown" by a marker tilted sideways right off the edge of Tech's campus on Marietta St.(I think).  No one notices it because its so puny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that's how online conservations drag on - but welcome back