Carolina Place Mall

[DMann]

http://deadmalls.com/index.html

[KJHburg]

 Sears is rumored to be doing a Chapter 7 complete liquidation bankruptcy soon in the buzz on Wall St Journal.  (a store that has such a long history as Sears it is really sad for all those involved)  So there might be another large anchor spot available at Carolina Place  and I would think they would break it up with some new possibly off price tenants to keep the traffic coming. 

In terms of dead malls Charlotte has done a pretty good job eliminating them.  Who remembers the Outlet Marketplace Mall at Carowinds Blvd and of course there is Eastland.  Greensboro bulldozed Carolina Circle Mall and Durham bulldozed South Square Mall.  (Private developers did those "removals") 

 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, KJHburg said:

 Sears is rumored to be doing a Chapter 7 complete liquidation bankruptcy soon in the buzz on Wall St Journal.  (a store that has such a long history as Sears it is really sad for all those involved)  So there might be another large anchor spot available at Carolina Place  and I would think they would break it up with some new possibly off price tenants to keep the traffic coming. 

In terms of dead malls Charlotte has done a pretty good job eliminating them.  Who remembers the Outlet Marketplace Mall at Carowinds Blvd and of course there is Eastland.  Greensboro bulldozed Carolina Circle Mall and Durham bulldozed South Square Mall.  (Private developers did those "removals") 

 

so don't expect to get paid for the campaign I'm working on is what you are saying?

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

so don't expect to get paid for the campaign I'm working on is what you are saying?

If your client is Sears I would be wary.  https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/sears-bankrupt-by-monday

[Temeteron]

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/1645971002

 

Sears at CP will in fact be closing by year’s end.  

[atlrvr]

*deleted*

[TheOneRJ]

This could either be the beginning of the end or the start of something new for CP. 

[Temeteron]

24 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

This could either be the beginning of the end or the start of something new for CP. 

I don’t think it’ll hurt them one bit.  Nobody shops  at Sears for the most part anymore anyway. It is however a big space to fill.  They need a renovation at CP bad.  Decor is stuck in the 1990’s.  

[TheOneRJ]

4 hours ago, Temeteron said:

I don’t think it’ll hurt them one bit.  Nobody shops  at Sears for the most part anymore anyway. It is however a big space to fill.  They need a renovation at CP bad.  Decor is stuck in the 1990’s.  

That's the problem. 

[KJHburg]

I would put some off price retailers in there like a TJ Maxx on the top floor and HomeGoods on the bottom floor and it would be packed.   Malls have to reinvent themselves and bring in new retailers that might not be "mall" stores.    In Alpahretta great affluent suburb of Atlanta where GGP owns a mall like this.  They are tearing down the Sears building and building apartments, and bringing in more restaurants and opening up some Spaces coworking space in vacant retail space.    

Carolina Place does not seem to have a lot of vacant space.  Obviously Macys was torn down and will become a Dicks and Golf Galaxy.  

https://www.brookfieldpropertiesretail.com/properties/property-details/carolina-place.html

Edited October 16, 2018 by KJHburg

[TheOneRJ]

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I would put some off price retailers in there like a TJ Maxx on the top floor and HomeGoods on the bottom floor and it would be packed.   Malls have to reinvent themselves and bring in new retailers that might not be "mall" stores.    In Alpahretta great affluent suburb of Atlanta where GGP owns a mall like this.  They are tearing down the Sears building and building apartments, and bringing in more restaurants and opening up some Spaces coworking space in vacant retail space.    

Carolina Place does not seem to have a lot of vacant space.  Obviously Macys was torn down and will become a Dicks and Golf Galaxy.  

https://www.brookfieldpropertiesretail.com/properties/property-details/carolina-place.html

A TJ Maxx was located across the street and closed down. Those types of stores do not typically save traditional malls like CP.  Dick's only worked at SouthPark because SouthPark is a (very) healthy mall, and mostly has been since opening. Unfortunately, unless an actual mall anchor replaces the Sears space, this is easily heading toward dead mall status. 

I'm again suggesting a Saks Fifth Avenue. The two previous attempts at a Charlotte location fell through over a decade ago and there is still no location, and the surrounding demographics could support a higher end store. 

[CLT2014]

6 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

A TJ Maxx was located across the street and closed down. Those types of stores do not typically save traditional malls like CP.  Dick's only worked at SouthPark because SouthPark is a (very) healthy mall, and mostly has been since opening. Unfortunately, unless an actual mall anchor replaces the Sears space, this is easily heading toward dead mall status. 

I'm again suggesting a Saks Fifth Avenue. The two previous attempts at a Charlotte location fell through over a decade ago and there is still no location, and the surrounding demographics could support a higher end store. 

Dick's Sporting Goods and Golf Galaxy are replacing the closed Macy's at Carolina Place. Below is a picture of the construction. I expect the mall owners to do something with the closed Sears space. The mall still has three traditional anchors (Belk, Dillards, JC Penny). The Sears likely hasn't been generating that much foot traffic at the mall anyhow. While finding a parking spot was more challenging near the REI and Barnes and Noble, you could always find plenty of parking near Sears and it was never very crowded. This gives the mall an opportunity to bring in a better tenant than Sears, even if it means demolishing the outdated and ugly Sears structure and building something smaller on that plot.

To put things in perspective, Carolina Place now has the same number of department stores as Northlake Mall (Macy's, Belk, and Dillard's).

Edited October 16, 2018 by CLT2014

[Temeteron]

28 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Dick's Sporting Goods and Golf Galaxy are replacing the closed Macy's at Carolina Place. Below is a picture of the construction. I expect the mall owners to do something with the closed Sears space. The mall still has three traditional anchors (Belk, Dillards, JC Penny). The Sears likely hasn't been generating that much foot traffic at the mall anyhow. While finding a parking spot was more challenging near the REI and Barnes and Noble, you could always find plenty of parking near Sears and it was never very crowded. This gives the mall an opportunity to bring in a better tenant than Sears, even if it means demolishing the outdated and ugly Sears structure and building something smaller on that plot.

To put things in perspective, Carolina Place now has the same number of department stores as Northlake Mall (Macy's, Belk, and Dillard's).

 I believe it would’ve been a better choice for Dicks and Golf Galaxy to have waited until Sears closed and taken that spot; since it is more visible from the highway and also has more parking on that side.  

[TheOneRJ]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Dick's Sporting Goods and Golf Galaxy are replacing the closed Macy's at Carolina Place. Below is a picture of the construction. I expect the mall owners to do something with the closed Sears space. The mall still has three traditional anchors (Belk, Dillards, JC Penny). The Sears likely hasn't been generating that much foot traffic at the mall anyhow. While finding a parking spot was more challenging near the REI and Barnes and Noble, you could always find plenty of parking near Sears and it was never very crowded. This gives the mall an opportunity to bring in a better tenant than Sears, even if it means demolishing the outdated and ugly Sears structure and building something smaller on that plot.

To put things in perspective, Carolina Place now has the same number of department stores as Northlake Mall (Macy's, Belk, and Dillard's).

The loss of Sears isn't worrisome, the size of space now available is. Dick's and Golf Galaxy is like a band aid over a wound, not a permanent solution. Northlake is a much newer mall with much better tenants compared to CP. Continuing to add big box stores to a traditional mall is a clear sign of a future dead mall, and considering the big box shopping center directly across the street also doesn't seem to be doing good, doesn't seem like a good idea in the first place.  

[Temeteron]

45 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

The loss of Sears isn't worrisome, the size of space now available is. Dick's and Golf Galaxy is like a band aid over a wound, not a permanent solution. Northlake is a much newer mall with much better tenants compared to CP. Continuing to add big box stores to a traditional mall is a clear sign of a future dead mall, and considering the big box shopping center directly across the street also doesn't seem to be doing good, doesn't seem like a good idea in the first place.  

I agree.  For those who remember, Barnes and Noble actually used to also be across the street where Patel brothers is now.  At least CP has more of a chance of staying afloat than Centrum. 

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, TheOneRJ said:

The loss of Sears isn't worrisome, the size of space now available is. Dick's and Golf Galaxy is like a band aid over a wound, not a permanent solution. Northlake is a much newer mall with much better tenants compared to CP. Continuing to add big box stores to a traditional mall is a clear sign of a future dead mall, and considering the big box shopping center directly across the street also doesn't seem to be doing good, doesn't seem like a good idea in the first place.  

Dick's has become a pretty typical mall tenant. It is a natural place for them as they sell apparel. Here are some of the malls with Dick's as a major tenant:

King of Prussia Mall: #2 largest mall in USA
Del Amo Fashion Center: #5 largest mall
Destiny USA Mall: #6 largest mall
Sawgrass Mills Mall: #9 largest mall
Roosevelt Field: #10 largest mall
Woodfield Mall: #11 largest mall
Palisades Center: #12 largest mall
Scottsdale Fashion Square: #19 largest mall

.... and then in Charlotte both Northlake Mall AND SouthPark Mall have Dick's as a tenant.  Dick's also replaced the Sears at SouthPark Mall when it closed (and that mall isn't dead).

40% of the top 20 largest malls in the country by size have Dick's as a tenant. Active wear is also trending upwards (hence the strength of brands like Athleta, Lululemon, etc..  so bringing them on site was a smart move by the mall owners. People are tired of the Macy's and department stores of the world. Dying malls keep relying on declining department store brands to keep them afloat. The Carolina Place mall owners have been diversifying the larger tenants at the mall to bring in more people. REI, Barnes & Noble, Dick's, Dave & Buster's, etc... and then the fast fashion brands they have secured like H&M and Forever 21 are good fits for an area with many families/ teens. 

A movie theater might be a good addition as well to replace the Sears for foot traffic later in the evening. 

I'm pretty certain we will see the Sears replaced by something else (albeit smaller) in the future. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by CLT2014

[Bikeguy]

Almost 30 years ago, Charlotte was in the hunt for a major relocation ... 

"Picking a site for the move "was the most difficult decision that I've been faced with in my life," said Edward A. Brennan, Sears chairman and chief executive, who was consistently vague on details about the move, the plans for the site and the number of employees the merchandising group eventually will have.

The field of possible locations previously was narrowed to a handful that included Dallas-Ft. Worth, Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham, N.C., and Chicago. Negotiations for the Hoffman Estates location were concluded Sunday."

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/27/business/sears-plans-move-to-site-near-chicago.html

[kermit]

8 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

Almost 30 years ago, Charlotte was in the hunt for a major relocation ...

Digression....

Almost 10 years ago we were in the hunt for the Radio Shack HQ relocation.

Ahhh, what could have been.

[asthasr]

Yesterday there was a deadly shooting at the DTLR in the mall. Seems like the decline is accelerating.

[rancenc]

2 hours ago, asthasr said:

Yesterday there was a deadly shooting at the DTLR in the mall. Seems like the decline is accelerating.

From what the press is reporting, the DTLR employee had a gun on him while at work....the non-employee was apparently the one who was killed.

[SgtCampsalot]

That's a real shame. These things paint an entire area inaccurately.  I remember when Northlake had a shooting and the area in no way is "on the decline."

[asthasr]

17 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

That's a real shame. These things paint an entire area inaccurately.  I remember when Northlake had a shooting and the area in no way is "on the decline."

The Pineville/Ballantyne area isn't on the decline, either, but Carolina Place itself is. I suspect most of the people who live in the area (new residents at least) drive a little further and go to SouthPark.

[CLT2014]

43 minutes ago, asthasr said:

The Pineville/Ballantyne area isn't on the decline, either, but Carolina Place itself is. I suspect most of the people who live in the area (new residents at least) drive a little further and go to SouthPark.

Charlotte Premium Outlets isn't that far away either from the Ballantyne area at non-rush hour times (~15 to ~20 minutes) and has a better mix of retailers that appeal to the high household income in the Ballantyne area. Carolina Place's best draw to higher household incomes is REI, but it isn't attached to the rest of the mall so you can easily visit it without stepping foot in another store. Carolina Place seems to draw more South Carolina residents from areas like Indian Land than NC residents (just based off anecdotal license plates), where SouthPark would be more like a 35 - 40 minute drive, so they just go to Carolina Place. 

Carolina Place does manage a 4.3 / 5 from 4,448 Google Reviews and if you take a glance, some people are driving 40 minutes to an hour to come here and think the mall is amazing. The middle class shopping appeals to families and people in the $40,000 - $80,000 income brackets that can't afford the shops at SouthPark. Many are specifically mentioning they come here over SouthPark due to price and family friendly tenants.

Edited January 15, 2019 by CLT2014

[Temeteron]

Looks like Sears has finally closed at CP, although I drove by today and the signs were still up.  I'm curious as to how long this will stay empty before the mall developers decide to either replace it with another dying dept store, or knock it down and put a fitness center/apartments etc.  They will have to get creative and think outside the box (pun intended).

Edited January 28, 2019 by Temeteron

[CLT2014]

The owners of Carolina Place, Brookfield Properties, are continuing to think about changes at their properties as traditional mall retail battles market forces. I'd look for changes to be announced within the year at Carolina Place, much like they just proposed two days ago at the Streets at Southpoint in Durham (where Sears also just closed):

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article225006430.html

Here is the proposed changes at Southpoint:
"Brookfield revealed that it would be requesting a new zoning designation to allow up to 200,000 square feet of office space, 100,000 square feet of new retail space, a hotel and up to 750 apartments."

In addition, here is their general statement for their entire portfolio of malls:
“We all read the news and understand that malls are evolving and changing,” he said. “We are in a position of strength right now (with Southpoint), but we need to maintain that. So we need this flexibility so that at some point in the future ... (we can) have other uses and this is happening at all of our malls.”