Northern Virginia

[beltwayboy08]

there is a huge article in the washington post today (sunday) about the VW move. it's on page F5. has some good info!! enjoy.

[tombarnes]

Here's an editorial piece from the Washington Post. While the piece is mostly tongue-in-cheek, the point of where all these people will live is a valid one. While this is great for the area, I don't see much abatement of sprawl around Washington. It's simply getting worse every day. I'd prefer to see more concentrated development around Metro stations. This has been made more difficult by land speculators who control much of said property, In any event, the pace of growth in D.C.'s suburbs invistes the question of how all of this growth is to be managed.

The Washington Post

[beltwayboy08]

Here's an editorial piece from the Washington Post. While the piece is mostly tongue-in-cheek, the point of where all these people will live is a valid one. While this is great for the area, I don't see much abatement of sprawl around Washington. It's simply getting worse every day. I'd prefer to see more concentrated development around Metro stations. This has been made more difficult by land speculators who control much of said property, In any event, the pace of growth in D.C.'s suburbs invistes the question of how all of this growth is to be managed.

The Washington Post

I'd prefer to see more concentrated development around Metro stations.

Absolutely 100% right.

This is our only choice. there is no other way. many of the people on other boards that i have posted on "like the way washington is growing". High density, including condo blocks, office blocks and street level retail and dining near metro will not only keep people eating, shopping and likely working near where they live, but if they do have to get anywhere further away, they have the option to take metro, thus, eliminating the need for 1000's of people to use thier personal motor cars.

[beltwayboy08]

I had to live in Wall Township, New Jersey when I was in high school for a few years. They all seem to be mistaken as to the "class identity" of Virginians. I was asked if I had all my teeth, and why I didn't talk "real slow". The same thing with my buddies from Illinois and Pennsylvania.

I was so stunned that these people were SO ignorant, I decided to do my Speech Communications speech about it. In my speech, I told them that on any given day on my way to work at my freshman year job, I drove on an 10 lane freeway lined with glass office buildings, HOV lanes and metro rail going down the center, through the most affluent and most educated county in the nation. After that, I'd pass the C.I.A. HQ, Arlington Nat. Cemetary, the largest office building in the world (the pentagon) and be able to look across at the planets most powerful city and capital of the free world. I included that my family came to this country through Jamestown in 1627, socialized with the prominent Lee, and mason families and even had property disputes with the Washingtons. As much as I like pennsylvania, New jersey and Illinois, It has to be said that they have a LONG way to go to be able to legitimately make fun of Virginia. We have ocean to mountains, some of the most important U.S. history, more presidents than any other state, 20 fortune 500 companies and paramount government agencies that help gevern and protect the most powerful nation in the world. In my opinion, Virginia is severely underestimated by most of the nation. We have grown fast, and I think that when people come to VA and see what we have, they are surprised. When it comes to amount of famous/important things, money and history, Ole Virginia, nowdays, can rival any state. Have you ever been anywhere where Virginia was mad fun of? How do you think Virginia compares to other states?

Edited September 10, 2007 by beltwayboy08

[tombarnes]

Interesting point Beltwayboy. I haven't noticed too much in the way of complaints about Virginia from those whose opinion might matter to me. There is the occasional joke, but most of this seems directed at West Virginia- at least in Washington itself. For the most part, I would say that Virginia doesn't really have an image problem when compared to other states which have not been allowed to escape their past history. One of the things I really like about Virginia is that it is diverse. I used to live in Gloucester County and in Portsmouth. Neither place could be said to have terribly much in common with NoVa, but I'd venture that Virginia is doing relatively well in the image department. Northern Virginia is almost in danger of losing its historic identity, but times do change. Was your family in Fairfax County?

[beltwayboy08]

Interesting point Beltwayboy. I haven't noticed too much in the way of complaints about Virginia from those whose opinion might matter to me. There is the occasional joke, but most of this seems directed at West Virginia- at least in Washington itself. For the most part, I would say that Virginia doesn't really have an image problem when compared to other states which have not been allowed to escape their past history. One of the things I really like about Virginia is that it is diverse. I used to live in Gloucester County and in Portsmouth. Neither place could be said to have terribly much in common with NoVa, but I'd venture that Virginia is doing relatively well in the image department. Northern Virginia is almost in danger of losing its historic identity, but times do change. Was your family in Fairfax County?

Yes, unfortunatly W.Va. does get alot of heat. I'd agree that most washingtonians dont think badly of VA, but they know better having been here. I think Virginia is doing much better in the image department in recent years, but this is only because it has had time for out-of-staters to pass through or vacation here and see what it really is. NoVa is feeling more northern than ever and is losing its historic identity, but I can't say that this is an ALL bad thing given most parts of NoVa were farms 25 or 30 years ago. And yes, my family has been in FFX co. since the late 1600's! we have alot of family members in the richmond and winchester area too that my "closer extended famlily" (LOL) have never met before. Infact, one of them won the mega millions a few years ago. He lives near Winchester. We heard the name on the radio and my dad did a family search. The guy ended up being like my 5th cousin's uncle's sister's brother in law 2004658 times removed. lol. I forget exactly, but My grandmother knew his mom in the 50's.

Richmond IMO still feels pretty southern though. I gives me a much more southern feeling than even some towns in NC. Va has both.

[tombarnes]

I hadn't known that Roger Staubach was involved in the process of luring Volkswagen to Herndon. His company has a much larger profile than I might have anticipated.

The Washington Post

[beltwayboy08]

haha. wow. I dont like the cowboys, but I like that guy!!!

[beltwayboy08]

QUOTE(hoobo @ Sep 12 2007, 08:15 PM) I know this is off topic. Beltwayboy, I love your optimism, but you really are going overboard here. You can't build tall buildings because it's cool. The economics have to justify it and the metro areas need to stop decentralizing. Richmond city probably has the best chance of any Virginia city of getting a fairly tall building since it is the only center of Richmond metro. Although, Innsbruck Office Park is a tough competitor. NoVa and HR have too many areas competing for high-rises. In NoVa you have Rosslyn, Alexandria, Reston, Tyson's Corner, etc. It doesn't help with FAA regs surrounding Reagan National. In HR you have downtown Norfolk/Portsmouth, VB's Pembroke area, and Newport News's Oyster Point area. If it wasn't for FAA regs, the VB resort strip would have some tall hotels. Also, why should a company pay high priced downtown digs when the office park is much cheaper? Virginia will get its supertalls when office parks build-out and their rents increase to near city center rents. At that point, developers will realize the economic advantage of building higher.

QUOTEI know this is off topic. Beltwayboy, I love your optimism, but you really are going overboard here. You can't build tall buildings because it's cool. The economics have to justify it and the metro areas need to stop decentralizingThis is exactly my point. if alabama can economically support buildings of this size, there should be NO question that virginia can. im not trying to go overboard, im just saying i really wish we would get some dang highrises already.. I know our economy and population can support them. I agree with you about the decentralization of cities in ole VA, and it sux! hopefully soon, as i said, we will start to get over the L.A. style b.s., fix out traffic, and put up some tall stuff.

also, those damn office parks wont be encouraged to grow in NOVA. ffx and arlington are serious about traffic problems and want to get more tax payers in their nearly built out counties. loudon and prince william want to controll urban sprawl. they have even halted growth until they get the roads that they want. with both if these factors, there's not even room for these bogus office parks to continue growing. NOVA is already in a trend of higher density. the office parks we have now are in the preliminary stages of being transformed into "satalite cities". tysons, springfield, merrifield, rosslyn, courthouse, etc. as well as many new TC developments. exibit A; potomac yard. asside from the vbtc, I'm not sure about the tide water area in terms of trying to re organize itself as being more urban, but nova is at the point where stuff like this has to happen now that we have waited soooo long to do somthing with our bloody roads. in tysons alone, metro is being expanded, property values are going up near it, the malls are being made in to a "town center", height limits are being lifted, the beltway is getting three new interchanges into it, and 1000's of condo blocks are being built. It ABSOLUTLY has the economic and population levels to support new towers. there are already tons of towers approved. the largest being 350'. who knows what will happen after all the construction is done..

[beltwayboy08]

g

[tombarnes]

I'm a bit confused by the last posting, but I suppose you are saying that northern Virginia can support large towers. I'd answer with a guarded "yes." You are correct that this area needs more comprehensive planning in order to grow in a manner which is less haphazard. I'm certainly not suggesting that developments should be hyper-planned in the manner of Columbia or Reston, but that there needs to be greater thought given to what is built and where it is built. The project in Fairfax County you mentioned appears to be headed in the right direction. I wish I had the feeling that more of this development could be controlled to create truly urban places as opposed to clusters of independent towers hovering around shopping nodes.

Edited September 13, 2007 by tombarnes

[beltwayboy08]

I'm a bit confused by the last posting, but I suppose you are saying that northern Virginia can support large towers. I'd answer with a guarded "yes." You are correct that this area needs more comprehensive planning in order to grow in a manner which is less haphazard. I'm certainly not suggesting that developments should be hyper-planned in the manner of Columbia or Reston, but that there needs to be greater thought given to what is built and where it is built. The project in Fairfax County you mentioned appears to be headed in the right direction. I wish I had the feeling that more of this development could be controlled to create truly urban places as opposed to clusters of independent towers hovering around shopping nodes.

haha. tb, I was redirected from the vb towncenter thread back here. sorry for the confusion. I also wish there would be more done to govern developers into more high density. as hoobo said in the other thread, all the big companies find it cheaper to move into office parks in the subburbs and see no reason for spending a fortune on a highrise. I dont know how alabama and north carolina can get these huge towers and virginia cant. what about you tb?

[tombarnes]

There are many factors which come into play when tall buildings are concerned. Most of them are economic, but there may be other reasons as well. For the most part, North Carolina's strong banking industry has fostered growth in related businesses and spurred the growth of tall buildings. In Alabama, the very, very rich retirement pension company (RSA) has funded the new tower in Mobile. Corporate pride may play a part in the construction of a building, but there should also be an economic basis for doing so. Richmond seems poised for another tall building before Norfolk, but one never knows.

Edited September 13, 2007 by tombarnes

[beltwayboy08]

There are many factors which come into play when tall buildings are concerned. Most of them are economic, but there may be other reasons as well. For the most part, North Carolina's strong banking industry has fostered growth in related businesses and spurred the growth of tall buildings. In Alabama, the very, very rich retirement pension company (RSA) has funded the new tower in Mobile. Corporate pride may play a part in the construction of a building, but there should also be an economic basis for doing so. Richmond seems poised for another tall building before Norfolk, but one never knows.

how big of a tower do they have proposed? it stinks that all our big f-500's are in suburbia. I think FFX co. , and maybe Arlington co. are giving like tax abatements to companies who move into higher density areas. again, not sure.. thought i had read somthing a while back in the post. there is a definite push tho for people to start building up in NOVA. it will happen, but slowly now that we are in a housing slump. if we had had the mega anti-subdivision push going as strong as it is now like 5 years ago, we would already have some more dense and taller skylines, and probably some new ones where there aren't any now like merrifield and springfield. it has to be said that alexandria, tysons, ballston, and rosslyn are shaping up nicely. I was coming back from a nationals game last nite driving across the 14th st. bridge, and rosslyn is very attractive at nite. especially with the waterview development in place. i like the way it reflects on the water. i have long anticipated the arrival of the future turnberry tower, and rosslyn central place on the skyline. they will be some very nice center pieces. most of the buildings that are going up now are residential and mixed use. imo, that will be the large majority of what we see going up fo the next few years or untill the slump lifts. not so much strictly office space. after that, who knows. when it does lift, all the political and economic factors are in place for either some really tall buildigs, or tons of mid rise buildings in dense areas. what do you think?

this is what i wrote in the VB thread.

[tombarnes]

I think the Washington metro area is poised for significant growth all around. The greatest growth may well be in the Virginia suburbs, but Maryland areas are pushing outward and upward as well. I have no doubt that there will be significant growth in our area, but I am concerned that this growth will not be managed correctly. I fear for an Eastern Shore littered with vinyl covered McMansions. As for towers, we may well see 40+ story towers in certain areas, but those nearest the airports may be restricted somewhat. Again, the market will dictate when these buildings are needed and also where. As you say, five years or so may bring new thinking and new skylines to our area, but not immediately.

Edited September 17, 2007 by tombarnes

[beltwayboy08]

I think the Washington metro area is poised for significant growth all around. The greatest growth may well be in the Virginia suburbs, but Maryland areas are pushing outward and upward as well. I have no doubt that there will be significant growth in our area, but I am concerned that this growth will not be managed correctly. I fear for an Eastern Shore littered with vinyl covered McMansions. As for towers, we may well see 40+ story towers in certain areas, but those nearest the airports may be restricted somewhat. Again, the market will dictate when these buildings are needed and also where. As you say, five years or so may bring new thinking and new skylines to our area, but not immediately.

I sure hope so!! Tysons has some nice ones that are on hold until metro goes through. ffx co. is apparently going to raise the height limit significantly after metro goes in. good signs!!

[krazeeboi]

I think the Washington metro area is poised for significant growth all around. The greatest growth may well be in the Virginia suburbs, but Maryland areas are pushing outward and upward as well. I have no doubt that there will be significant growth in our area, but I am concerned that this growth will not be managed correctly.

At least the Maryland part of the metro area has good models for "new school" urbanism that at least give it hope. I'm not so sure about NoVa though, which has a nice collection of traditional urban centers, but not as many contemporary models (although Reston Town Center appears to be one of the best in the metro area).

[beltwayboy08]

At least the Maryland part of the metro area has good models for "new school" urbanism that at least give it hope. I'm not so sure about NoVa though, which has a nice collection of traditional urban centers, but not as many contemporary models (although Reston Town Center appears to be one of the best in the metro area).

maryland dosnt really have alot to show for its being next to DC like virginia does and most people feel ,like MD is in competition with VA. virginia has more people and less traffic than MD, making it more of a priority to have smart growth. In no way am i saying that virgina isnt in need of the same thing, but VA is also on its way. virginia's burbs span much further out than MD's making it so FFX county dosnt have alot of room to expand like montgomery county does. so it turns to its existing "urban areas" that have always been kinda on the office park side of the spectrum and is in the proscess of redeveloping them into downtowns like clarendon. when was the last time you visited the DC area from south carolina? you may be surprised. I wish I could get down there once in a while!!

[beltwayboy08]

btw... just opened the paper and we have a new TC on the way in merrifield by the metro sta. this ontop of farlee metrowest, potomac yard, launders farm, dulles station, loudon station, moorefield station, old town fairfax, and tysons corner. krazeeboi, i think MD may have had the smart growth idea before VA. but were certainly on the band wagon now!!

[beltwayboy08]

the effort to revitalize fairfax city has brought a new mini town center, an addition on the government complex that is to include street level shopping and dining, and across the street at 4069 chinbridge road (thats right across from the massey building) is a brand new hardtimes cafe!!!! its unlike any hardtimes yet. the building is over 200 years old, and it has all the newest hardtimes upgrades. there is cue and a bar, all the rooms of which are painted to the colors of different sports teams, as well as a dining area. its like 14,000 sq feet i think.

I love hardtimes and have always been a faithful "hardtimer". just thought I might let you all know seeing as i personally am quite thrilled. it will not only provide me with a new branch of my favorite restaurant much closer to my house, but it will also be an anchor for foot traffic and the growth of retail in the area of ffx city between the govt. center, and the main street district. ffx city is comming back as a destination and not an office center and commuting nightmare.

Edited September 22, 2007 by beltwayboy08

[tombarnes]

A Hard Times Cafe in a 200 year old building? SOunds interesting BB. I'll have to get over to Fairfax some time to visit the place.

[beltwayboy08]

A Hard Times Cafe in a 200 year old building? SOunds interesting BB. I'll have to get over to Fairfax some time to visit the place.

tb, what do you think about what i said before my hard times post? do you agree? I think ole Virginia is doing just as well as Md when it comes to smart growth.

[tombarnes]

I think that Reston is a decent example of smart growth. Alexandria and many parts of Fairfax County have exhibited these traits as well. Maryland has several examples to its credit, with Kentlands and perhaps Columbia being the ones which jump to mind l. I'd venture that they are about even, but the rapid population growth in the Virginia suburbs shows the need for greater caution on Virginia's part to ensure that their growth will indeed be smart. I don't like to think of the suburbs of Maryland and Virginia as being competitive (though that may be nearer the truth), but prefer to view the region as a whole. Regional thinking is needed- particularly in the westward push of expansion. West Virginia is now for all intents and prposes part of the DC metro area. More alarming is that Pennsylvania is considered by a few hardy commuters to be within striking distance of their work in Washington.

Edited September 23, 2007 by tombarnes

[Lowerdeck]

I've thought of Winchester, Hagerstown, and Martinsburg as being the fringe suburban towns for at least a decade or so now.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Lowerdeck

[tombarnes]

True enough, the conurbation reaches out to Culpeper as well. I merely hope that this can be managed carefully and not simply sprawl all over the map.