Northern Virginia

[beltwayboy08]

True enough, the conurbation reaches out to Culpeper as well. I merely hope that this can be managed carefully and not simply sprawl all over the map.

yes tb, I would agree with you about VA, DC and MD as one conurbation, but there are always competitions between state lines. even though I like MD alot, and see them as VA's little brother, there is competition. I would also agree that VA is equal to MD as far as smart growth goes, only VA has many more of these projects proposed and approved in its future.

about the fringe towns; for some reason, living in ffx co, I dont seem to consider West Virginia to be part of the DC area. there may be people who commute, but when one looks at a map, or a satalite image, they can see quite clearly that the 'skirts end in loudoun and prince william counties. however, I can understand how these towns could be seen as subburbs given their increasing prosperity due to DC'sjob market. personally, I think if there are miles of farm land and emptieness between towns, then they are their own uran centers.

IMO, lincoln was out best president for allowing "W. Va." to become its own state. Where would VA's economy be with W. Va. holding it down?

[tombarnes]

IMO, lincoln was out best president for allowing "W. Va." to become its own state. Where would VA's economy be with W. Va. holding it down?

Edited September 24, 2007 by tombarnes

[beltwayboy08]

Most of the people on forums that I have talked to who are from West Virginia are very resentful towards Virginia argueing that West Virginia is superior to Virginia.

I am big into history and in no way do I respect what W. Va. is or how it became. I consider the state to be traitorus and in absolutely NO popsition to judge Virginia given thier own position as a nothing, washed up, poor and oversized forest with NOTHING to offer a northern Virginian, nor do I consider them to be part of the Washington area. It gives them too much credit. I'm not a southern sympathiser or anything, but I'm very concious of my being a Virginian, and our superior and paramount national history and current day importance, somthing in which West Virginia chose not be included.

Other wise, I think highly of Leesburg, Manassas (old town), and Fairfax City too. Other than Annapolis, which you had mensioned, I can't name any other's in the DC region on the MD side, but these towns have been centers of trade and government for longer even than Washington itself. All these places have civil war history, and go back even further with importantce to local history. Ffx co. as a whole is big on the national historic stage as home to George Washington, General Robert Lee, George Mason, etc. with many other not so famous, but also historic natives and sights to supplement. As you said, Alexandria is NoVa's oldest and best example of a pre-Washington center. Before washington, that and Georgetown, MD were the predominent towns in the region. Being a DC dweller, I was wondering tb, which town was bigger? Alex or georgetown? IMO, it seems asthough Alexandria had a better hold as the port of the region.

[tombarnes]

I think that Alexandria may have been just a bit larger than Georgetown. Alexandria had surely formed more of a cultural identity than Georgetown at the time. As for West Virginia, Shepherdstown and Harper's Ferry are basically already part of the Washington metro area, whatever one's feelings are about the subject.

[Lowerdeck]

There may be farmland and fields and forests between the fringes of the developed stretch of suburbs and say Martinsburg, Winchester, and Hagerstown. However, there is a significant enough commuter base from the three to consider them suburbs of sorts to DC even if they are their own micro-centers not entirely directly connected or reliant to DC.

Most of the people on forums that I have talked to who are from West Virginia are very resentful towards Virginia argueing that West Virginia is superior to Virginia. hysterical.gif

I am big into history and in no way do I respect what W. Va. is or how it became. I consider the state to be traitorus and in absolutely NO popsition to judge Virginia given thier own position as a nothing, washed up, poor and oversized forest with NOTHING to offer a northern Virginian, nor do I consider them to be part of the Washington area. It gives them too much credit. I'm not a southern sympathiser or anything, but I'm very concious of my being a Virginian, and our superior and paramount national history and current day importance, somthing in which West Virginia chose not be included.

Seriously though, with the exception of the eastern panhandle ... is there much in common between West Virginia and Virginia? And would you even want West Virginia to be a combined Virginia had they never split off in the 1860s? And do you think West Virginia really contributed much to history compared to the rest of the state?

Edited September 25, 2007 by Lowerdeck

[tombarnes]

With the exception of places like Huntington and Charles Town, much of West Virginia was developed after the Civil War. There were health resorts at White Sulphur and others spring, but the development of West Virginia was largely post-1860. This was due, as much as anything, to the factors of transportation and the mountainous terrain. I don't want this thread to become a place for the "bashing" of a neighboring state. We can discuss, but it is best to respect our neighbors.

[beltwayboy08]

There may be farmland and fields and forests between the fringes of the developed stretch of suburbs and say Martinsburg, Winchester, and Hagerstown. However, there is a significant enough commuter base from the three to consider them suburbs of sorts to DC even if they are their own micro-centers not entirely directly connected or reliant to DC.

Seriously though, with the exception of the eastern panhandle ... is there much in common between West Virginia and Virginia? And would you even want West Virginia to be a combined Virginia had they never split off in the 1860s? And do you think West Virginia really contributed much to history compared to the rest of the state?

lowerdeck, I will have to agree with you that some of those far out towns do have a good number of commuters to the DC region, and I know that is what the definition of a "subburb". however, like you said, they are their own micor centers and are set apart from the rest of the conurbation mass. it very well may be subjective. one who lives in DC or arlington would argue that warrenton is not the DC area, but one who lives in culpepper may beg to differ. then again, there may be a specific rule to apply to this topic that draws a line on a conurbation.

As for West Virginia; I dont think they contribute to history or the present day country nearly as much as VA. I'm glad that they are their own state so they can bask in their own nothingness alone and let the rest of Virginia continue to be progressive and prosperous and excell into the future as one of the nations most important and affluent states. West Virginia would have been a leech if we still had to carry it's dead wait. There is nothing in wva that va dosn't have. Virginia imo is much more like NC and MD, both of which are much more respectable and progressive states.

btw, i think i may have asked you before and i didnt follow through, LD, how did you get those flag icons on your postings? I like them.

[Lowerdeck]

lowerdeck, I will have to agree with you that some of those far out towns do have a good number of commuters to the DC region, and I know that is what the definition of a "subburb". however, like you said, they are their own micor centers and are set apart from the rest of the conurbation mass. it very well may be subjective. one who lives in DC or arlington would argue that warrenton is not the DC area, but one who lives in culpepper may beg to differ. then again, there may be a specific rule to apply to this topic that draws a line on a conurbation.

....

btw, i think i may have asked you before and i didnt follow through, LD, how did you get those flag icons on your postings? I like them.

I consider the three I-81 cities I mention to be "city-burbs". My comparison to them would be Worcester, Providence, Lowell, and Manchester to Boston. All have a sizeable commuter population towards Boston, but yet they are centers themselves where people in surrounding areas go to those first and then Boston.

As for the flag icons, I did a Google image search for the two state flags. Then saved them and uploaded them to my graphics account, then just threw them into the signature with links to the state forum.

[beltwayboy08]

ok thanks bro. I'm gonna try it out.

[beltwayboy08]

ok. I know we are kinda weak here in recent days, but I'd like to see if this stirs up some interest. I just found out today that a HUGE 350 acre plot of land touching rt. 7 and the Loudoun county pkwy is being developed (and has alredy broken ground) on a massive smart growth town center called One Loudon. I is going to have 900 homes, 700000 sq feet of retail and !3,000,000! sq. feet of office space including.........ready..........a................ WORLD TRADE CENTER! one of only 230 in the world. It stands as an example of nova's enormous wealth. it also will include in its downtown some luxury hotels, and will have its own elementary school. there are several of these projects going in around VA and MD, but this one will be much more upscale and will be anchored by the world trade center. the trade center will also help attract even more companies to Northern Virginia. I consider myself to be pretty up to date with new development in the area, but I managed to miss this one untill today. what do yo guys think?

http://www.oneloudoun.com/siteplan.htm

[tombarnes]

On the face of it, this looks like a good development. Are there any plans to connect it with Metro and thus to the larger area around it? I'm also curious about what sort of hotels these will be.....another Westin perhaps? I could even see a Fouyr Seasons built in Northern Virginia somewhere.

[beltwayboy08]

On the face of it, this looks like a good development. Are there any plans to connect it with Metro and thus to the larger area around it? I'm also curious about what sort of hotels these will be.....another Westin perhaps? I could even see a Fouyr Seasons built in Northern Virginia somewhere.

No, I dont think it will connect with metro. it seems to be just north of the silver line. the hotels will be nice, but I'm excited by the WTC!

btw, on the silver line in reston, the county is looking for a development group that can design a mini towncenter for the wiehle ave station. now there is a kiss and ride lot, but the county hopes to have a good number of condo units with retail mixed in. also, ffx corner TC is looking to expand its 1.1 million sq feet with another million square feet!

[beltwayboy08]

No, I dont think it will connect with metro. it seems to be just north of the silver line. the hotels will be nice, but I'm excited by the WTC!

btw, on the silver line in reston, the county is looking for a development group that can design a mini towncenter for the wiehle ave station. now there is a kiss and ride lot, but the county hopes to have a good number of condo units with retail mixed in. also, ffx corner TC is looking to expand its 1.1 million sq feet with another million square feet!

sorry... my pos computer is acting up. any way, ffx corner is going to double its density. there is no land around for low density expansion so from what i gather, they will build up. ffx corner is directly across 66 freeway and only about a 3 min. drive from the also expanding fair oaks mall.

and tb, the convension center is getting a hotel. did you hear about that on the news?

[tombarnes]

The World Trade Center should be a great addition. I like the idea of this area going vertical, so to speak. As for the convention center hotel, I have a thread for that one already going. It will be a Marriott Marquis.

[NovaWolverine]

The World Trade Center should be a great addition. I like the idea of this area going vertical, so to speak. As for the convention center hotel, I have a thread for that one already going. It will be a Marriott Marquis.

Fairfax Corner will be a lot better. I knew they would build a garage and use some of the surface parking to build more blocks. It will look nice. And the developers are planning for the orange line to come out there in another decade or two, that's really what that area needs IMO, some good rail options. And in a decade or two, our light rail options should be better than nonexistant which it is now.

[beltwayboy08]

Fairfax Corner will be a lot better. I knew they would build a garage and use some of the surface parking to build more blocks. It will look nice. And the developers are planning for the orange line to come out there in another decade or two, that's really what that area needs IMO, some good rail options. And in a decade or two, our light rail options should be better than nonexistant which it is now.

I always thought ffx corner was kinda bland and shopping center like. with that new addition, it will feel more dense and city like hopefully. I also can see how ffx corner would be better though. especially with metro, which i hope comes out this way soon too!! I did drive by the sight of "1L" (one loudoun as they nickname it), and its huge. driving by on the loudoun pkwy for about a min and a half at 45 mph, i thought the property had ended untill i saw another 1L "office space for lease" bill board, and a bunch of equiptment about another quarter mile after that. its gonna be pretty big.

I also drove down to rosslyn yesterday (yeah I have a life and a job).... to check out the sight lines of the rosslyn central place towers. I went into tom sarris' orleans house, the 50 year old restaurnat that is being forced to move out, and asked the owner when they are closing. she said they are closing in december and she said they have to give the county the key by march, when the block will undergo demolition.

I was worried about the height of the roof line on central place being 387.6 feet when the neighboring rosslyn twin towers are 381 ft, so i talked to the developer and he said they go by median sight elevation. so even though the intersection of north lynn st. and wilson blvd, where the two sets of towers will be opposite of eachother, is flat, the old twin tower's eastern edge, near the river is significantly lower. this ensures that even though the old twin towers are only 6.5 feet shorter in building height, the new towers will still dwarf them on the skyline.

while in rosslyn, I drove by turnberry tower to check on its progress. they are almost finished with the first underground parking storie. no dirt left really. and btw, applying the median sight elevation tool, it looks asthough turnberry could rival the old rosslyn twin towers for head room on the skyline too.

[beltwayboy08]

if you look between both new towers, the one in the background is the completed turnberry tower.

Edited September 28, 2007 by beltwayboy08

[NovaWolverine]

I always thought ffx corner was kinda bland and shopping center like. with that new addition, it will feel more dense and city like hopefully. I also can see how ffx corner would be better though. especially with metro, which i hope comes out this way soon too!! I did drive by the sight of "1L" (one loudoun as they nickname it), and its huge. driving by on the loudoun pkwy for about a min and a half at 45 mph, i thought the property had ended untill i saw another 1L "office space for lease" bill board, and a bunch of equiptment about another quarter mile after that. its gonna be pretty big.

I also drove down to rosslyn yesterday (yeah I have a life and a job).... to check out the sight lines of the rosslyn central place towers. I went into tom sarris' orleans house, the 50 year old restaurnat that is being forced to move out, and asked the owner when they are closing. she said they are closing in december and she said they have to give the county the key by march, when the block will undergo demolition.

I was worried about the height of the roof line on central place being 387.6 feet when the neighboring rosslyn twin towers are 381 ft, so i talked to the developer and he said they go by median sight elevation. so even though the intersection of north lynn st. and wilson blvd, where the two sets of towers will be opposite of eachother, is flat, the old twin tower's eastern edge, near the river is significantly lower. this ensures that even though the old twin towers are only 6.5 feet shorter in building height, the new towers will still dwarf them on the skyline.

while in rosslyn, I drove by turnberry tower to check on its progress. they are almost finished with the first underground parking storie. no dirt left really. and btw, applying the median sight elevation tool, it looks asthough turnberry could rival the old rosslyn twin towers for head room on the skyline too.

It is bland, but I hope they get some more height and commercial space in there. There is a lot of surface parking there.

[beltwayboy08]

It is bland, but I hope they get some more height and commercial space in there. There is a lot of surface parking there.

yeah.. but do you think 1,000,000 sq feet can fit in those parking lots? I dont know, i hope not, so they have to build up.

[tombarnes]

Remember that a bland office park box can be just as bland at 20 or even 30 stories tall. I'm holding out for better design overall. There is a tendency here to worship height. To a certain extent, in height-starved Washington, I can agree that a little more height might well be a good thing for many of Washington's growing suburbs. I don't want it all to look like what has already been built in, say, Rockville or Crystal City. The faux-colonial look so popular in these parts is also wearing thin. I'd love to see something monumental, yet livable and quite different from what we mostly have now outside the city. Citing examples is something I don't really want to do, as I think we can so easily get caught in theme-oriented design. If red brick, stone, fake shutters and cupolas are are supposed regional style, we need to look inward for our sense of design and produce something better.

Edited September 30, 2007 by tombarnes

[beltwayboy08]

Remember that a bland office park box can be just as bland at 20 or even 30 stories tall. I'm holding out for better esign overall. There is a tendency here to worship height. To a certain extent, in height-starved Washington, I can agree that a little more height might well be a good thing for many of Washington's growing suburbs. I don't want it all to look like what has already been built in, say, Rockville or Crystal City. The faux-colonial look so popular in these parts is also wearing thin. I'd love to see something monumnetal, yet livable and quite different from what we mostly have now outside the city. Citing examples is something I don't really want to do, as I think we can so easily get caught in theme-oriented design. If red brick, stone, fake shutters and cupolas are are supposed regional style, we need to look inward for our sense of design and produce something better.

Personally, i like tall buildings. I'd love to see the area get some real buildings. In that sense, yes, i do worship height. also, i agree with you about trying to design more unique TCs. in a few years, the town center will be just as bland as the suburbia we are complaining about now given what i see in all the TCs that are being built around nova (except reston). asside from liking tall buildings, I think they will help make an area more dense, and will give it a much more "typical uban" feel. ....................................plus they will look neat.

[NovaWolverine]

yeah.. but do you think 1,000,000 sq feet can fit in those parking lots? I dont know, i hope not, so they have to build up.

Where else are they going to build, they have to build on the surface parking. They'll get it to fit somehow, so they'll have to build up.

[beltwayboy08]

Where else are they going to build, they have to build on the surface parking. They'll get it to fit somehow, so they'll have to build up.

1 million sq feet isnt too hard to build on the space they have available now. I predict that even if they have multi floor buildings, they wont be more than 5 stories.

[NoVaBoy]

Here are a couple of pictures I took of the construction progress of the SoMa buildings in Reston Town Center. These were taken about a week ago:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/ana...72/100_0928.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/ana...72/100_0925.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/ana...72/100_0923.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/ana...72/100_0917.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/ana...72/100_0912.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/ana...72/100_0884.jpg

[beltwayboy08]

very nice!!

I had taken some pix of them about half way through their construction, when they were putting the prefabricated brick exterior on the west building. (julyish).

they are a nice addition to the TC. What I want to know is what will be going up across from the mid town towers in the vacant lot there. I know across the street behind the bus depot, they will put up a 15 storier within a few months or so.