Virginia Beach Arena (Cancelled)

[BFG]

I think the only ones not on board are DeSteph and Moss. I can't watch the meeting, but to me, it seems he's just desperately grasping at straws for reasons as to why he doesn't want it. I can understand the increased price tag (although initial estimates are always going to go up or down 99% of the time). It's the fact that he feels threatened by progress that irritates me.

 

If he is worried about parking at an arena, God forbid he ever go to the Amphitheater for a concert...

[vdogg]

Looks like the arena has pretty strong council support. I'm starting to get optimistic here.

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/va_beach/council-to-hear-arena-financial-plan

[burt]

If and when construction gets underway for the VB Arena, Richmond Coliseum might host the Kings until the oceanfront facility is ready.

 

From today's RTD: 

 

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/latest-news-ap/va-beach-says-nba-team-could-temporarily-play-in-richmond/article_fca42d3a-3ec0-11e2-a5a0-0019bb30f31a.html

[varider]

No way would i support the team playing in Richmond. The Ted Constant Center is much more reasonable. 

[BFG]

From the beginning, the Comcast folks included Richmond in the deal, as a way of getting support between the two regions. It makes sense, although it's very similar to what the Squires did back in the 70s. The rumor I heard involved them playing some games there, and some at The Ted.

 

If it means getting more support throughout the state, I'm okay with it.

[HopHead]

No way would i support the team playing in Richmond. The Ted Constant Center is much more reasonable. 

 

You do realize that without Richmond, there's not a snowballs chance of a team coming to VA Beach, right? If the arena does get a built, a large chunk of the money would come from the state. And those decisions are made in Richmond. 

[varider]

You do realize that without Richmond, there's not a snowballs chance of a team coming to VA Beach, right? If the arena does get a built, a large chunk of the money would come from the state. And those decisions are made in Richmond. 

 

What does that have to do with a team playing in Richmond? Richmond gives Northern Va and Richmond a disproportionate amount of money. It's only fair they help us with our arena.

[HopHead]

What does that have to do with a team playing in Richmond? Richmond gives Northern Va and Richmond a disproportionate amount of money. It's only fair they help us with our arena.

 

It has everything to do with Richmond and Virginia. Do you really think there would be support at the state level if everyone in VA Beach shared the attitude of "No way do I want the Kings playing anywhere outside our area while our taxpayer funded arena is being built."? I think the whole idea is that Richmond would get some games, while others would be played at the Scope or whatever venue is being talked about. When the Carolina Hurricanes relocated to North Carolina in the late 90s they played in Greensboro while their arena in Raleigh (about 90 minutes away) was being constructed. It wasn't a big deal to people then knowing they were getting a team at a brand new venue. Be thankful that you may be getting a team. I think you'd want to build fan support in state instead of alienated a large segment of potential fans.

[mistermetaj]

What does that have to do with a team playing in Richmond? Richmond gives Northern Va and Richmond a disproportionate amount of money. It's only fair they help us with our arena.

 

While the arena is being built, the Kings (King Neptunes?) would have to play at an alternative venue for at least 2 years.  The whole concept of this stadium banked on the fact that VA Beach could pull a commuting fan base from Richmond (Considered the metro area >3M).  It is in the best interest of all parties to have the team play in Norfolk, Hampton, and Richmond while the stadium is being built.  The larger the grassroots fan base becomes, the more likely this would be a success.

 

It would also help gain state support for funding with the guarantee that different parts of the state can share in the franchise for a few years while VA Beach gets their stadium.  I see nothing wrong with this scenario and welcome it.

[BFG]

Might I add that, while Virginia Beach is a popular tourist destination, it's not quite strong enough to where it can carry a team name on its own the way Boston or even Charlotte or OKC does. Most of that is because of the sibling rivalries between the 7 Cities. So it's a pretty good chance this will be the "Virginia ___", not just because they'll play in 2 or 3 different cities, but because this team is relying on support from HR, Richmond, and even the Southwestern part of the state. And I'm okay with that.

 

I was listening to Nick Cattles' show yesterday and he interviewed Mayor Sessoms. The mayor addressed some concerns (mainly getting more support from the other cities' politicians), but said that things are moving in the right direction, and look good. One thing that surprised me is Nick said he's from the northeast (Massachusetts I think), and how people look favorably at Virginia Beach, not just for tourism, but just a place to visit.

 

The biggest hurdle I think is getting the NBA board of directors to approve the relocation. I think a lot of them still want Seattle to get the next team.

[zeppelin14]

Talks are resuming in Texas of all places:

 

www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/va_beach/officials-meet-with-consultants-in-tx

[varider]

This project is moving so fast

[BFG]

http://www.wvec.com/my-city/vabeach/5-Beach-officials-discuss-arena-deal-at-meeting-in-Dallas-182581611.html

 

Not sure what exactly it means for the project. Doesn't mean it's dead in the water, but it might not help either. Then again, the 2013 budget was likely drafted way before this arena proposal came up.

[mistermetaj]

http://www.wvec.com/my-city/vabeach/5-Beach-officials-discuss-arena-deal-at-meeting-in-Dallas-182581611.html

 

Not sure what exactly it means for the project. Doesn't mean it's dead in the water, but it might not help either. Then again, the 2013 budget was likely drafted way before this arena proposal came up.

 

it must irk the state that the most under developed underutilized yet second largest region got this proposal. you know if this stadium was for richmond there would be money available.

[Oaktowntwinz]

it must irk the state that the most under developed underutilized yet second largest region got this proposal. you know if this stadium was for richmond there would be money available.

If only this was true.  Sadly, for Richmonders, it isn't.  Richmond can't get financial support from counties in the metro area, much less from the state. For example, the city continues to struggle to find funding for a new baseball stadium.  This is why the city lost the Braves.  The citizens of Henrico and Chesterfield want to enjoy the games but don't want to help pay for the park.  If what  you stated was a fact, the city would have been able to get the needed funds from the state.

 

It is a common misperception that Richmond receives preferential treatment because it is the state capital.  Unfortunately, being the capital is often a hindrance instead of a benefit.  The state pays no taxes for all of the buildings and land that it occupies.  For  a fiscally strapped city, this is problematic. The irony is many Virginians think of Richmond as a cash cow that has its hands in the state's coffers, leaving the rest of the state to fight for the scraps.  This assessment is unfair and not true.

[mistermetaj]

If only this was true.  Sadly, for Richmonders, it isn't.  Richmond can't get financial support from counties in the metro area, much less from the state. For example, the city continues to struggle to find funding for a new baseball stadium.  This is why the city lost the Braves.  The citizens of Henrico and Chesterfield want to enjoy the games but don't want to help pay for the park.  If what  you stated was a fact, the city would have been able to get the needed funds from the state.

 

It is a common misperception that Richmond receives preferential treatment because it is the state capital.  Unfortunately, being the capital is often a hindrance instead of a benefit.  The state pays no taxes for all of the buildings and land that it occupies.  For  a fiscally strapped city, this is problematic. The irony is many Virginians think of Richmond as a cash cow that has its hands in the state's coffers, leaving the rest of the state to fight for the scraps.  This assessment is unfair and not true.

you are talking about a local triple A team compared to a national NBA franchise which three studies have now shown the economic benefit to the state. It would be the only national franchise in VA since the skins are now out in Maryland. Additionally no team will go to Northern Virginia and compete with the DC franchises. 

 

Not to mention chances like this happen once every ten to fifteen years at best. I have no doubt given the projected economic benefits of this project, had it been proposed in Richmond, the state would be singing a different tune. This is a far cry from a triple A baseball team.

[BFG]

One of the news stations (or maybe it was the Pilot) clarified the situation to say alternate funding possibilities exist, it's just not in the official budget. With the roadwork and school improvements needed, I can understand not putting that kind of money into the state budget. That being said, I am very interested to see what this alternate funding consists of.

I'd really like to put some of this on Moss and DeSteph. They delayed a process that could've probably gone forward much sooner because of their backwards and somewhat selfish thinking. I'm so sick and tired of VB people crying about how they want to go back to the "good old days". The fact that people refuse to move anywhere beyond the 1970s is part of the reason we're in this situation right now. It's a city of 450K people, and one of the largest in the state, not to mention a popular tourist spot. It's time to face facts, quit crying about the past, and stop being so damn scared of what the future holds. You have the largest cities in the state, a heavy tourism season, and yet one of the lowest crime rates for a city your size. What's your gripe again?

 

The other problem is the cities' refusal to work together. I give Sessoms a lot of credit for trying his best to make this work, and can only try my best to remain optimistic that this isn't as dramatic as the news outlets want us to think it is.

[Oaktowntwinz]

you are talking about a local triple A team compared to a national NBA franchise which three studies have now shown the economic benefit to the state. It would be the only national franchise in VA since the skins are now out in Maryland. Additionally no team will go to Northern Virginia and compete with the DC franchises. 

 

Not to mention chances like this happen once every ten to fifteen years at best. I have no doubt given the projected economic benefits of this project, had it been proposed in Richmond, the state would be singing a different tune. This is a far cry from a triple A baseball team.

Sorry but you kind of missed the whole point.  I don't want to debate with you because it seems your mind is made up.  I know the difference between triple A and major league.  I'm simply saying Richmond does not have the ear of legislators and is not getting perks that other cities can't get.  Another example is the fact that the Coliseum is old and needs to be replaced.  Nobody, including the state, is stepping forward to help the city figure out where the money is coming from to pay for it.  As far as the economic benefits that you mentioned, the state has already said they will not be assisting in bringing a team to Virginia.  They don't care if the team is coming to VB, Richmond or NOVA. 

[vdogg]

 the state has already said they will not be assisting in bringing a team to Virginia.  They don't care if the team is coming to VB, Richmond or NOVA. 

This is not at all true. McDonnell has been very upfront in his support of bringing a team to VA and in fact in the most recent "clarified' pilot article his spokesman stated :

 

 

 

The Virginia Economic Development Partnership is looking over the proposal as well as economic studies on the arena to determine the feasibility of state support and whether any existing state economic development programs could be used, McDonnell spokesman Tucker Martin said in a statement.

and

 

 

"The Governor has long supported efforts to bring a professional sports franchise to Hampton Roads," Martin said. "However, any state involvement in economic development proposals must make clear and sound financial sense for the Commonwealth's taxpayers and be economically justifiable."

From: http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/no-va-beach-arena-funding-mcdonnells-budget

 

It is under study, It has not been outright rejected. It still has a chance to be funded and sometime later next year.

[mistermetaj]

Sorry but you kind of missed the whole point.  I don't want to debate with you because it seems your mind is made up.  I know the difference between triple A and major league.  I'm simply saying Richmond does not have the ear of legislators and is not getting perks that other cities can't get.  Another example is the fact that the Coliseum is old and needs to be replaced.  Nobody, including the state, is stepping forward to help the city figure out where the money is coming from to pay for it.  As far as the economic benefits that you mentioned, the state has already said they will not be assisting in bringing a team to Virginia.  They don't care if the team is coming to VB, Richmond or NOVA. 

you are using examples from Richmond which are not in the same hemisphere as a national professional team. It is conjecture by both of us what the state would do if this kind of development was proposed for Richmond. I won't pursuade you anymore than you me. Your mind is just as made up as mine.

[Oaktowntwinz]

you are using examples from Richmond which are not in the same hemisphere as a national professional team. It is conjecture by both of us what the state would do if this kind of development was proposed for Richmond. I won't pursuade you anymore than you me. Your mind is just as made up as mine.

You are right. We have to agree to disagree.   I hope VB is successful.  Just keep in mind, people in southwest VA or NOVA, for that matter, won't be as excited about funding this as you seem to think.  Good luck on convincing them that an NBA team for VB is more important than their schools, roads, etc.  The only reason I used the examples I did was because those projects are important to people in Richmond but they don't mean jack to you and most others in the state. If this was proposed for Richmond, the same would apply.  Even though its NBA, I'm willing to bet you would not be in favor of funding it and I'm basing that on your obvious disdain for the capital city.

[mistermetaj]

You are right. We have to agree to disagree.   I hope VB is successful.  Just keep in mind, people in southwest VA or NOVA, for that matter, won't be as excited about funding this as you seem to think.  Good luck on convincing them that an NBA team for VB is more important than their schools, roads, etc.  The only reason I used the examples I did was because those projects are important to people in Richmond but they don't mean jack to you and most others in the state. If this was proposed for Richmond, the same would apply.  Even though its NBA, I'm willing to bet you would not be in favor of funding it and I'm basing that on your obvious disdain for the capital city.

 

Obvious disdain for the capital city?  Wow, you have me pegged all wrong.  When I went to UVa I used to visit Richmond and walk the canal and the fan district and even visited friends at VCU.  I have very little bad to say about Richmond (some sketchy areas but what city doesn't?).  Just because I don't agree with the decisions of legislators and what I believe is favoritism among our politicians does not mean I have disdain for Richmond.  You are taking this as a personal attack on Richmond which it is not at all.  I merely stated (and we both disagree) that if this proposal were in Richmond I think it would have been pushed through.  Maybe I am completely wrong and again, neither of us will ever know.  But to say it's out of disdain for Richmond is ludicrous.  

 

But I digress.  I'm sure NOVA residents would not want to fund it.  Truth is, they are far enough away where this metro has no affect on them and vise versa. However, given the studied economics of the situation and the benefits it would supposedly bring to the state, I hope this project is voted for.

[Oaktowntwinz]

Obvious disdain for the capital city?  Wow, you have me pegged all wrong.  When I went to UVa I used to visit Richmond and walk the canal and the fan district and even visited friends at VCU.  I have very little bad to say about Richmond (some sketchy areas but what city doesn't?).  Just because I don't agree with the decisions of legislators and what I believe is favoritism among our politicians does not mean I have disdain for Richmond.  You are taking this as a personal attack on Richmond which it is not at all.  I merely stated (and we both disagree) that if this proposal were in Richmond I think it would have been pushed through.  Maybe I am completely wrong and again, neither of us will ever know.  But to say it's out of disdain for Richmond is ludicrous.  

 

But I digress.  I'm sure NOVA residents would not want to fund it.  Truth is, they are far enough away where this metro has no affect on them and vise versa. However, given the studied economics of the situation and the benefits it would supposedly bring to the state, I hope this project is voted for.

I guess I misread you.  Sorry about that; I didn't take it personally though.  Actually, as I said, I hope this does work. VA is the largest state, in terms of population, without a major league sports franchise. I agree about NOVA.  The only reason I brought them up is, as a part of the state, their vote would be included regarding any financing of this proposal.  Problem with many in NOVA is they don't want to be associated with the rest of the state.  They are in denial of the state they live in as they only want to be viewed as metro DC residents. Clearly elitist but, as you said, I digress.  Good luck with the NBA!

[mistermetaj]

I posted this in the Beach Dome Site thread, but for those of you who didn't see it, I still think it's applicable to the arena, in that just the proposal already looks to have an economic benfit for the city:

 

Dome site funding on track to meet goals:http://touch.wavy.com/20000/5084910

 

and the major reason given for the interest of additional investors...THE ARENA PROPOSAL

 

already the city is seeing a benefit and it isnt even approved yet.

 

highlights include a broadway theater and a large ferris wheel.

[BFG]

Beach Council votes tonight on whether to push forward. The Pilot's editorial staff supports the idea...wait, that can't be right.

 

http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/keep-moving-beach-arena

 

Good to know that the red alert put up on Friday was more of a false alarm, and that this idea isn't as dead in the water as it was made out to be.

 

ETA: Bruce Rader's most recent blog post from yesterday also confirms my theory that the arena proposal was submitted too late for the 2013 budget. 

Edited December 11, 2012 by BFG