Virginia Beach Arena (Cancelled)

[carolinaboy]

To be honest, I never really understood the rationality to build an 18,000 seat arena in VB with no real tenant.  I really doubt any NBA or NHL team would come to the region given other metro areas that already have arenas and no NHL or NBA team (Charlotte, Tulsa, Cincinnati, Seattle, Las Vegas, etc.) I also doubt the ACC men's tournament would come. Maybe the NCAA tournament. CUSA? A-10? I don't think would draw well in VB.

I am a development nerd and would love to see VB with an arena. I just do not think this developer for this proposal has the means to see it to fruition. VB should walk away from this particular deal.

[tallguy81"]

Problems like this can arise all the time with any development deal.  There is a middle with every deal.

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by tallguy81"

[BFG]

I don't think the rollercoaster ride with this deal is indicative of whether we can sustain a team or major event. I mean, if not for mismanagement by the front office, the Squires possibly join the NBA. Granted, that was 40 years ago, and there are other cities who want teams as well (Seattle's arena situation is even crazier than ours), but I wouldn't count us out of the discussion. People are aware of Virginia's pro basketball history and have us in the conversation with Seattle, Louisville and KC, even as a dark horse.

As for the NHL, I think the list is a bit longer (maybe by one or two more cities). But, the ACC tourney could do well here, given the location and proximity to several ACC schools. UVA and Tech are a few hours away, and the Carolina schools are still only 3-5 hours away, give or take. It pulled crazy numbers in Greensboro, so I don't see how it does worse here, being in a coastal tourist city.

But looking beyond any sports, getting more concerts and live shows is a huge draw. The Southside Daily article eases my fears. The Pilot seems to like taking the negative road, because they know the comments section will explode with NIMBY types.

[HRVT]

47 minutes ago, BFG said:

I don't think the rollercoaster ride with this deal is indicative of whether we can sustain a team or major event. I mean, if not for mismanagement by the front office, the Squires possibly join the NBA. Granted, that was 40 years ago, and there are other cities who want teams as well (Seattle's arena situation is even crazier than ours), but I wouldn't count us out of the discussion. People are aware of Virginia's pro basketball history and have us in the conversation with Seattle, Louisville and KC, even as a dark horse.

As for the NHL, I think the list is a bit longer (maybe by one or two more cities). But, the ACC tourney could do well here, given the location and proximity to several ACC schools. UVA and Tech are a few hours away, and the Carolina schools are still only 3-5 hours away, give or take. It pulled crazy numbers in Greensboro, so I don't see how it does worse here, being in a coastal tourist city.

But looking beyond any sports, getting more concerts and live shows is a huge draw. The Southside Daily article eases my fears. The Pilot seems to like taking the negative road, because they know the comments section will explode with NIMBY types.

Part of the reason the ACC did so well in Greensboro was because of how close it was to so many ACC schools. Wake Forest was a few minutes away. NC State, UNC, and Duke are about an hour or so. Virginia Tech is 2 hours away while UVA and Clemson are about 3. That isn't to say that the ACC Tournament wouldn't do well in Hampton Roads (I think it would actually), and I do think that it the arena would be built that the tournament would show up a few times. But the ACC Tournament showing up 3 or 4 times in a 20 year period isn't enough to convince anyone with sense to build the arena.

As for the NBA, I'm not sure if there are a whole lot of teams looking to relocate. The NHL seems to have one more spot for expansion and at least a few teams looking to relocate. But as it stands right now, There are two NHL teams within about 3 hours (Carolina in Raleigh and the Capitals). Now, if Carolina was one of the teams to relocate (probably will happen eventually), that makes things a little more interesting for Virginia Beach. But I'm also not sure how well the NHL would do here. 

[carolinaboy]

This thing is toast. Done. I bet the VB City Council kills this thing quickly now.

No light rail, no arena, no dome site...........

[vdogg]

I wouldn't go that far.  We have 2 differing accounts of the same meeting.  Until we can reconcile those we really don't know what the hell is going on.

[HRVT]

35 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

This thing is toast. Done. I bet the VB City Council kills this thing quickly now.

No light rail, no arena, no dome site...........

I think the Light Rail still has a good chance of happening, though ending at Town Center is such as half-arsed compromise.

[tallguy81"]

How accurate is Southside daily?

[BFG]

I know somebody who worked for them, and their articles have been quoted here before. They seem pretty legit. I don't get the same "instigator" vibe that the Pilot sometimes puts out.

[urbanlover568]

On 9/28/2016 at 3:10 PM, carolinaboy said:

This thing is toast. Done. I bet the VB City Council kills this thing quickly now.

No light rail, no arena, no dome site...........

This will pass. It would be political suicide to not pass it. I think the boardwalk, light rail, and areana will start construction within a year or two. 

[vdogg]

Watching council meeting now. No way this doesn't pass.

[vdogg]

Wow, that was a surprise. I think Henley changed her mind at the last minute. Vote failed. I guess that's the end of the arena. 

Vote was 8-3. They needed 9. Kinda disappointed, after watching the meeting I was in support of the change. They had just talked about how millennials are leaving this city at a rate of 68%, and I can see why. From the dome site, to the arena, to I suspect light rail, we have a habit of not being able to get big things accomplished.

[vdogg]

Nevermind, Jones was the one who flipped. I'll be interested first to see why this is and whether there is anyway to get this back on the table.

[vdogg]

One of the speakers in opposition did state that a year ago BC Ziegler was fined for misrepresenting bonds. That's the only thing I can think of that may have changed Jones mind, that information had never been revealed before.

[tallguy81"]

This arena is far from being canceled imo.  With every business deal comes negotiation.  This is what can happen in the negotiating process.  this vote does not mean that the deal can not and will not get done.

Edited October 5, 2016 by tallguy81"

[vdogg]

Andrea Kilmer says they will regroup tomorrow. Says it doesn't mean the deal is dead because they still have the original development agreement, but I must say she was very visibly upset in the interview. Kind of felt sorry for her, sounded like she was on the verge of tears. You can tell she and her team had a lot invested in this.

[M.Rocks]

I was hoping to come home and read some good news about this but this stings. I finally felt like we were going to get over the hump and move towards becoming a city with more first class amenities and one that makes people want to live in and not leave. The arena deal isnt looking too good, people clawing tooth and nail to fight against light rail and anything related to growing.... Right or wrong I feel like this city won't progress until the older generation has passed on and by then I'll be too old myself to fully enjoy it or will have moved myself. 

[BFG]

I wish I could say I'm surprised. But it's no secret Virginia Beach leaders hate progress, no matter how much of a good game they talk. Same crap that keeps this area second tier: old, narrow-minded leadership holding everyone else hostage. That said, telling council you might need more money gave them the exit clause they needed to say no.

This should've been Norfolk's project from the get-go. It would've been Fraim's chance to go out in a blaze of glory (although Ikea is pretty damn good). I imagine USM presents a revamped plan to Norfolk in about six months. Although the new Hilton had its share of controversy, I could see Norfolk possibly giving this a shot, esp. since Military Circle would be so close to the outlets and Ikea.

[HRVT]

This was the right decision. I'd love to see the area get an arena, but not at the astronomical cost that USM was looking for. The infrastructure upgrades were one thing (some of which would even be beneficial even without the arena). But with the developer originally only ponying up 20% of the initial risk and asking for reimbursement of eventually double the original investment is a bad deal. When USM backed off to less than 10% of the investment, we needed to cut the cord (and we really shouldn't have accepted the original deal).

[vdogg]

Let's steer this back towards the arena. Keep light rail talk in the light rail thread.

It's an absolute miracle that we saw anything on the scale of Town Center through to fruition. This city simply can't handle major projects. Here's hoping the arena deal can be renegotiated.

[carolinaboy]

I can't believe that a majority of City Council still voted yes to the new proposal (unless I read that wrong) and only 3 voted no. The approved deal was bad, the new proposal is atrocious. I wonder how Sessoms will get at least one councilor "on board"?

[BFG]

A little more info, courtesy Inside Business. There's a slightly snarky tone to it, and it might make you roll your eyes, but there's some stuff worth reading.

http://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/economic-development/quarter-billion-dollar-revised-virginia-beach-arena-plan-falls-one/article_5f0271ce-a73a-5536-9641-d42ea208cc98.html

The article implies that USM could still work something out with VB. Otherwise, they might go to another city. I wonder if Bruce Thompson would be willing to pitch in?

Edited October 6, 2016 by BFG

[BFG]

So...there's still a glimmer of hope. USM says they have a potential lender interested in helping. I'm a little more optimistic now-makes me think they might be able to come up with something at the eleventh hour and keep this on track.

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/virginia-beach-vice-mayor-says-he-voted-no-on-financial/article_727441ad-b484-5cab-b003-a706e5648bb6.html

Edited October 6, 2016 by BFG

[baobabs727]

Spineless Louis Jones has finally come out of hiding and explained his vote. He claims that it was "too risky" for the city. He doesn't explain what he means by "risky," nor does the Pilot ask him any questions to flesh out his comments. Great.

But what is even vastly more astounding is that he opines that the city should explore building the arena...on its own!  Oh, Really? And THAT is somehow less "risky?!?"

Look, people throw around the term "risky" without ever explaining or defining terms...or providing the intellectual underpinning for such an assertion. By my, perhaps, limited understanding, the developer assumed all risks. In the event of default, Virginia Beach would not have been on the hook for one dime. The only sticky issue at that point would be the infrastructure expenditures, some of which are needed anyway. 

On another note, I agree that the company should have more skin in the game; however, those maximum limits on returns of investment appear to be based upon absurdly optimistic  projections. We all know how that goes....

(Mrs. Henley's objection is just too ridiculous to even waste my time commenting on.)

[vaceltic]

From the Biz Sense article: "But it really is a travesty for the grandchildren, all the children that are not yet born, the millennials that potentially could leave here because we don’t give the opportunity for this facility to be built in Virginia Beach.”

This is a bit dramatic and I think grossly misses the point on why millennials might potentially move out of VB. I would think providing quality jobs and schools, a moderate cost of living, walkable neighborhoods, and transportation alternatives are a higher priority to millennials than getting a Beyonce concert or a professional sports team.