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Virginia Beach Arena (Cancelled)


vdogg

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*Beware of hot takes*

I really wonder if VB, despite being the largest city, is really prepared for large projects. Proposals for The Dome site keep falling through, LRT has been shot down twice, and now there's questions about the arena. Maybe it really is time to divide the city in two and convert the southern half back to Princess Anne County*.

I know we're beating a dead horse here, but I really wish this was proposed to Norfolk. Military Circle is the more traffic-friendly location, being close to the Interstate and interchange, they want to expand light rail in that very direction, and it's close to downtown. I wish there were more room in downtown proper, but MC is only 5 minutes away. However, even though the arena is "privately-funded", I could see people having reservations after the controversy behind The Main.

*Would love to see the other half merge with Norfolk and create a city of about 400-500K, but not holding my breath.

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15 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

There must be a lot of money in the arena business if this developer is pushing so hard to build an arena in a "city" with no pro teams, no college teams, no real chance to host NCAA events, etc. Also, wouldn't it compete with the convention center anyway?

Do tractor pulls, monster truck mayhem, rodeos and boat shows really pay the bills?

If I were VB I'd pull the plug on this now.

While there are no pro teams in the area (and IMO, no realistic hope of getting one), I do think the arena would have a very good chance to host NCAA events. But the NCAA is getting ready to announce its NCAA Tournament venues for four more future years in a few months (2019-2022), so Virginia Beach won't be in the running for those. But with an established arena, if built, the city would be almost certain to land some games in one of the next tournaments. The ACC Tournament would also be interested in Virginia Beach.

But even still, you're talking about maybe 1 NCAA pod every 3 or 4 years at best. Richmond Coliseum only hosted two in its "lifetime". And the ACC would likely only hold its tournament in VB a few times as well. Not sure that's worth the money on the arena. 

The developer really wants this built though because they really aren't investing a lot and there's not a whole lot of risk on the developer if they were to default. And the lack of upside to the arena being built is likely why they're struggling to get a better deal on financing.

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At this point, I'll be shocked if this goes through.

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/virginia-beach-to-arena-developer-city-stands-by-its-council/article_14165138-e220-5dd8-9a56-c913277f8017.html

Hard to get excited about anything happening in Va. Beach anymore. This year has been completely deflating.

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If Virginia Beach continues to reject the arena plan, I could see Norfolk putting it where Military Circle Mall is today. It looks like it could fit into the Military Circle master plan in between the two proposed light rail stations. Could be something to jumpstart the urbanization of the area.

Edited by Arctic_Tern
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  • 3 weeks later...

From the Inside Business Facebook account...

Call it a hunch, but I don't think this arena is going to happen. At least not in Virginia Beach...maybe another city takes a chance on funding it out of pocket, but I don't see VB taking the bait on this one. And honestly, after all the false starts, I can't say I blame them.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm really bummed that it's come to this after four years of anticipation.

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Last I checked, no one else is beating down our door trying to build an arena here. So why wouldn't Council extend?  A region of our size and relative affluence merits and can support a project of this scope and magnitude. Hands down.

I think if we were to have a factual, point-by-point, risk versus reward/pro versus con discussion about this particular arena proposal, we would discover that the rewards outweigh the risks by a significant margin. Especially in light of the private financing, the eventual economic spinoff effect and the jobs created.

The only thing of note or concern about the vote for me was the fact that Ms. Abbott voted "no." Ms. Ross-Hammonds would've been a certain "yes" vote.  Not wanting to stereotype, but the youngest member of Council--a 27-year-old-- voting "no" against light rail and now "no" against the privately-financed arena.... Well, the irony is not lost on me.

 

Edited by baobabs727
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It appears from reading the paper that Virginia Beach Citizens seem kind of blasé about the prospects of a arena financed heavily by the city.  This lack of groundswell will doom this project for sure.  I think that if this does fall through the investment group needs to turn around and talk to Norfolk.  Great thing about Norfolk leaders is their desire for the city to progress and change.  I think Kenny Alexander with his many connections in Richmond and Washington may be able to nab some federal and state funding for the project therefore reducing the risk to city.  Virginia Beach in my humble opinion overreached with the Arena project. 

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9 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Last I checked, no one else is beating down our door trying to build an arena here. So why wouldn't Council extend?  A region of our size and relative affluence merits and can support a project of this scope and magnitude. Hands down.

I think if we were to have a factual, point-by-point, risk versus reward/pro versus con discussion about this particular arena proposal, we would discover that the rewards outweigh the risks by a significant margin. Especially in light of the private financing, the eventual economic spinoff effect and the jobs created.

The only thing of note or concern about the vote for me was the fact that Ms. Abbott voted "no." Ms. Ross-Hammonds would've been a certain "yes" vote.  Not wanting to stereotype, but the youngest member of Council--a 27-year-old-- voting "no" against light rail and now "no" against the privately-financed arena.... Well, the irony is not lost on me.

 

She voted no because her constituents  (Kempsville) were 78% against, not because she herself didn't think it was a valid proposal.  If she intends on governing by polls alone, I don't see many yes votes in her future, regardless of age.

1 hour ago, skylinefan said:

It appears from reading the paper that Virginia Beach Citizens seem kind of blasé about the prospects of a arena financed heavily by the city.  This lack of groundswell will doom this project for sure.  I think that if this does fall through the investment group needs to turn around and talk to Norfolk.  Great thing about Norfolk leaders is their desire for the city to progress and change.  I think Kenny Alexander with his many connections in Richmond and Washington may be able to nab some federal and state funding for the project therefore reducing the risk to city.  Virginia Beach in my humble opinion overreached with the Arena project. 

The arena is not financed at all by the city. We're only providing infrastructure. 

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10 hours ago, vdogg said:

She voted no because her constituents  (Kempsville) were 78% against, not because she herself didn't think it was a valid proposal.  If she intends on governing by polls alone, I don't see many yes votes in her future, regardless of age.

The arena is not financed at all by the city. We're only providing infrastructure. 

As to your 2nd quote,  I wonder how many other folks out there are operating under the same misnomer.  This goes to a lack of leadership on the Mayor's part, and a lack of preparation  and presentation on Miss Kilmer's part.

Right, I reached out to her last night & she was so kind as to respond today. She indicated that  the vast majority of her constituents did not want the arena, nor did they want an extension. She thinks it's a good idea, generally, but would like to put the taxpayers back in the driver's seat...& by that I suppose she means allowing others to  come forward with better proposals.  I expressed to her that I don't think that's ever going to happen. The private financing proposed here is downright miraculous given the size & scope of this project.  I think Miss Kilmer and Mayor Sessionns need to do a much better job of explaining this. 

Oh! And don't get me started on Council members voting based on referenda or Townhall meetings-- 

Regarding the former,  I have written to all Council members several times over the years about leading by persuasion, representative democracy versus direct democracy, rising or falling at the ballot box rather than caving to (following) the will of a vocal minority, etc.  Unfortunately, most of them are completely risk-averse and refuse to stick their neck out for something they believe in. They just want to get reelected. 

As for the latter, when you have these constituent meetings, only the most ardent naysayers tend to turn up... largely because they have nothing else better to do. They also tend to be older, retired and seemingly completely un-trusting of government. They do not trust the government to follow through on promises made, nor do they trust government with their tax dollars. Finally, they don't  really trust big business either.

While I sympathize with their concerns (especially relating to a general lack of good governance at all levels this days), I do believe that these frustrations/concerns stir certain emotions which often completely cloud and obscure the actual fact-set at hand.  Especially  & easily so with a fact-set as nuanced and as complex as one involving a nearly $300 million proposal. 

Edited by baobabs727
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  • 4 weeks later...

Small update: USM is confident they will get this done by next month's City Council meeting. Andrea Kilmer gives some vague, if not "safe" answers, but I'll take her word for it. The idea that they intend to break ground this spring and be done within two years seems very optimistic.

http://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/economic-development/ib-exclusive-virginia-beach-arena-development-execs-optimistic-and-confident/article_5fec1f2b-d55c-52ff-8165-3acb9aacf903.html

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Much as I rag on VB, I really want this to succeed, esp. with the Dome and LRT falling through. Norfolk is having a huge momentum shift, but I would like to see this go through. It's been delayed long enough, and if USM wants to get a team here, their window is closing quickly.

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12 hours ago, BFG said:

Much as I rag on VB, I really want this to succeed, esp. with the Dome and LRT falling through. Norfolk is having a huge momentum shift, but I would like to see this go through. It's been delayed long enough, and if USM wants to get a team here, their window is closing quickly.

Honestly think it would be better in Norfolk....closer to the airport too

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The thing I love is that both cities have (or could have) amenities that make both stand out. Norfolk has a booming downtown, the outlets, Waterside and next year, Ikea. VB having the arena still helps the region, with or without a team. When people come to town, they go to the concerts or games at the arena in VB, then hit the outlets and Ikea as they head back to the airport or drive back up 64.

If we want regionalism, I do think the arena is a win-win for both cities in that regard. Outside of improving schools and crime, I think Norfolk's top priorities should be to continue the growth and expansion of downtown, LRT and the airport. However, I do think that, in spite of VB having more people, Norfolk re-establishes itself as the "big city" of the region, with VB acting as a suburb.

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On 2/3/2017 at 3:48 PM, BFG said:

The thing I love is that both cities have (or could have) amenities that make both stand out. Norfolk has a booming downtown, the outlets, Waterside and next year, Ikea. VB having the arena still helps the region, with or without a team. When people come to town, they go to the concerts or games at the arena in VB, then hit the outlets and Ikea as they head back to the airport or drive back up 64.

If we want regionalism, I do think the arena is a win-win for both cities in that regard. Outside of improving schools and crime, I think Norfolk's top priorities should be to continue the growth and expansion of downtown, LRT and the airport. However, I do think that, in spite of VB having more people, Norfolk re-establishes itself as the "big city" of the region, with VB acting as a suburb.

Let's get real here. With the location of the proposed arena, people will get in their cars after events and head straight to West 264. The problem is there is nothing there, and with the sea of parking, theres no incentive to do something in the area after an event. If you have to get in your car to go somewhere, you might as well just go home.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I understand that they believe that but the arena was proposed for Virginia Beach and all work done so far has been towards that end. This is first and foremost a private development with the city only providing infrastructure  (a fact that is not emphasized nearly enough). I think we should work through the process and at least have it officially fail before trying to move the whole thing to Norfolk.  I actually think the oceanfront is a great location. 

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I don't think it would be any more successful if it were to be built in Norfolk.

1. They wouldn't build it in downtown (which would be a mistake).

2. Norfolk already has the Scope and ODU already has a nice, appropriately sized venue.

3. The ACC or Big East isn't bringing a tournament here. Maybe the CAA, A10 or CUSA, which would both be fine with Scope/Ted Constant Center.

4. Too big for the Admirals and whichever league they're in now and no NHL team would come to Norfolk. Maybe the AHL.

5. If Norfolk is serious about an arena, they should dump half the money they would spend on a new one into making Scope great and improving the plaza area around it. I bet that would spur hotel development in its vicinity.

 

Bottom line, I hope and would love an arena to be built, especially in Norfolk but I'm not convinced it's going to happen; in VB or in Norfolk.

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2 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

I don't think it would be any more successful if it were to be built in Norfolk.

1. They wouldn't build it in downtown (which would be a mistake).

2. Norfolk already has the Scope and ODU already has a nice, appropriately sized venue.

3. The ACC or Big East isn't bringing a tournament here. Maybe the CAA, A10 or CUSA, which would both be fine with Scope/Ted Constant Center.

4. Too big for the Admirals and whichever league they're in now and no NHL team would come to Norfolk. Maybe the AHL.

5. If Norfolk is serious about an arena, they should dump half the money they would spend on a new one into making Scope great and improving the plaza area around it. I bet that would spur hotel development in its vicinity.

 

Bottom line, I hope and would love an arena to be built, especially in Norfolk but I'm not convinced it's going to happen; in VB or in Norfolk.

1. I agree it should be Downtown

2. The Ted is a good size venue for the school and I'm sure the Scope would be torn down if a new arena was built opening up a new parcel to build on if the arena wouldn't be built on the same property.

3. Why wouldn't the ACC have their tournament here? They've had it in Greensboro for years. If they can put it there, they can put it here a time or two.

4. You do realize that the NHL tried to expand to Norfolk (Predators) and then tried to relocate a team to Norfolk (Whalers) in the 90s. Why would they entertain the idea 25 years ago and not now when the area is larger? 

5. The Scope is 46 years old and it looks it. It is outdated and obsolete, when it opened it held a world record which was eventually lost and regained after the structure that took that record, the Kingdome, was deemed obsolete 17 years ago.

I couldn't agree more with your last statement unfortunately.

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