Virginia Beach Arena (Cancelled)

[BFG]

I don't think they've come this far to give up, esp. with the second chance. I think it finally happens. 

As for a team, USM claims there's still interest from a league (I'm guessing NHL or arena football). The lack of an adequate venue hurt us most when hockey and basketball teams wanted to relocate or expand here in the 90s.

[HRVT]

7 hours ago, Virginia City said:

 

4. You do realize that the NHL tried to expand to Norfolk (Predators) and then tried to relocate a team to Norfolk (Whalers) in the 90s. Why would they entertain the idea 25 years ago and not now when the area is larger? 

Largely because there are other areas which have grown much faster over the last 25 years. Hampton Roads has been essentially stagnant for the last couple decades. Heck, just 6 years ago, the Hampton Roads MSA was larger than both Nashville's and Austin's. Now, Nashville's is larger by well over 100,000 people and Austin's is over a quarter million people larger. In just six years, Austin outgrew Virginia Beach by more than 250,000 people! 

Hampton Roads was considered the largest metropolitan area in the United States without a pro team 25 years ago. But a lot has changed in that time. Las Vegas and Austin are larger and still lack sports teams. There are a few areas smaller that do have major league sports teams, but many of those locations are in serious jeopardy of losing their teams (especially Raleigh and Jacksonville).

And the location of the arena near the Oceanfront is TERRIBLE. Putting it in downtown Norfolk or even in Military Circle is far better because it's more central to Hampton Roads.

[vdogg]

The location at the oceanfront is not necessarily about being central to Hampton Roads.  Millions come to the Beach annually, predominantly from outside of Hampton Roads. This venue will be powered primarily by events, with a major league team being a "nice to have" but not a necessity. The arena is meant to drive tourism during the off season.  I'm sure this private developer looked at many locations before choosing this one. This location made more financial sense.

[carolinaboy]

15 hours ago, Virginia City said:

1. I agree it should be Downtown

2. The Ted is a good size venue for the school and I'm sure the Scope would be torn down if a new arena was built opening up a new parcel to build on if the arena wouldn't be built on the same property.

3. Why wouldn't the ACC have their tournament here? They've had it in Greensboro for years. If they can put it there, they can put it here a time or two.

4. You do realize that the NHL tried to expand to Norfolk (Predators) and then tried to relocate a team to Norfolk (Whalers) in the 90s. Why would they entertain the idea 25 years ago and not now when the area is larger? 

5. The Scope is 46 years old and it looks it. It is outdated and obsolete, when it opened it held a world record which was eventually lost and regained after the structure that took that record, the Kingdome, was deemed obsolete 17 years ago.

I couldn't agree more with your last statement unfortunately.

3. The ACC is not going to come to Virginia Beach (or Norfolk) for their men's basketball tournament. The ACC is a whole other level. They target NYC, DC, Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. They have it in Greensboro because of the traditional ties to NC and Tobacco Road.

4. Because places like Seattle, Milwaukee, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Portland OR, Las Vegas don't have teams. Also, history is showing "Southern" NHL teams don't last. Atlanta lost its team and apparently Nashville and Carolina are having difficulty.

Hey, I'm all for a larg(er), modern arena, I'm just trying to be realistic. Perhaps VB can support one with concerts, trade shows, conventions, etc. I just don't see the region pulling a real major league sport though. So many people in the region are from elsewhere and are transient to the area and already are fans of other established tteams. Seems like it would be difficult to nurture a large fan base for a "hometown team".

[carolinaboy]

19 minutes ago, NFKjeff said:

I do not know the parameters by which the ACC selects their tournament sites, but I disagree with your statement that the ACC would not place their mbb tournament in either Virginia Beach or Norfolk. I am sure there are many variables involved, including accessible hotel rooms and entertainment, contract terms, venue size and features, etc. I don't think there is a reasonable way any of us can answer that question with certainty.

 

We can disagree. I'm cool with that.

[baobabs727]

Hampton Roads ranked 4th among possible NBA expansion locations

 

"In a Feb. 17 story for SBNation.com, NBA Editor Tom Ziller – a Sacramento resident, no less – ranked Hampton Roads fourth among possible NBA expansion locations.

According to Ziller, the region would have to wait in line behind Seattle, Mexico City and....Louisville."

http://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/commercial-real-estate/hampton-roads-ranked-th-among-possible-nba-expansion-locations/article_ec8bdd7f-11ae-5fda-a9a6-c0ea6aae4e47.html

Louisville? Our MSA is quite a bit larger than even their CSA. Very odd. Overall, however, it's a great opinion because the other two cities are rather obvious, and the third is debateable. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

I've heard that if/when the league expands, Seattle and Louisville are at the top. Louisville and Norfolk were two of the ABA teams shut out of the merger in the mid-70s (St. Louis being the other), so I'd love to see those two cities "finally" get to join the NBA, 40 years later.

However, Seattle's arena issue is even more up in the air than ours, and while Louisville is a popular choice, I have a hard time seeing them be able to support NBA and UofL, considering that's a huge draw. I def. don't see Mexico City, but unfortunately, I don't see the NBA expanding until Seattle gets an arena.

[vdogg]

This is exciting news, but it's all a moot issue if USM doesn't pull through next week. They're really going down to the wire. If something positive is to happen, I expect to hear news this weekend. 

[HRVT]

6 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Hampton Roads ranked 4th among possible NBA expansion locations

 

"In a Feb. 17 story for SBNation.com, NBA Editor Tom Ziller – a Sacramento resident, no less – ranked Hampton Roads fourth among possible NBA expansion locations.

According to Ziller, the region would have to wait in line behind Seattle, Mexico City and....Louisville."

http://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/commercial-real-estate/hampton-roads-ranked-th-among-possible-nba-expansion-locations/article_ec8bdd7f-11ae-5fda-a9a6-c0ea6aae4e47.html

Louisville? Our MSA is quite a bit larger than even their CSA. Very odd. Overall, however, it's a great opinion because the other two cities are rather obvious, and the third is debateable. 

One thing that works in Louisville's favor is that Cincinnati is only about an hour and a half away. Lexington, KY is also a decent sized area and about 90 min away as well. An even bigger factor is that Kentucky is a basketball CRAZY state and Louisville has a state of the art arena built and ready in the KFC Yum Center. 

[TNinVB]

15 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

3. The ACC is not going to come to Virginia Beach (or Norfolk) for their men's basketball tournament. The ACC is a whole other level. They target NYC, DC, Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. They have it in Greensboro because of the traditional ties to NC and Tobacco Road.

4. Because places like Seattle, Milwaukee, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Portland OR, Las Vegas don't have teams. Also, history is showing "Southern" NHL teams don't last. Atlanta lost its team and apparently Nashville and Carolina are having difficulty.

Hey, I'm all for a larg(er), modern arena, I'm just trying to be realistic. Perhaps VB can support one with concerts, trade shows, conventions, etc. I just don't see the region pulling a real major league sport though. So many people in the region are from elsewhere and are transient to the area and already are fans of other established tteams. Seems like it would be difficult to nurture a large fan base for a "hometown team".

Umm no Nashville is not having difficulties with the Predators. They are very successful and operate in one of the busiest arenas in the country.

[carolinaboy]

9 hours ago, TNinVB said:

Umm no Nashville is not having difficulties with the Predators. They are very successful and operate in one of the busiest arenas in the country.

My bad. I thought I remembered they were having financial difficulties in the recent past.

[baobabs727]

12 hours ago, TNinVB said:

Umm no Nashville is not having difficulties with the Predators. They are very successful and operate in one of the busiest arenas in the country.

According to Forbes for 2016, the Predators ranked 26th out of 30 teams in total value, 20th in attendance, and lost $2.2 million in operating income. (By comparison, Carolina lost $15 million and ranked dead last in attendance.)  On the other hand, the ten year increase in value was pretty strong, and the Nashville market is vibrant.

When the Norfolk Admirals were in the AHL, they usually ranked about 15th through 17th out of 30 teams in attendance.

https://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/ 

Since you're living here now in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia--more specifically, the Birthplace of a Nation--I, for one, would be stoked (a little VB surfer lingo for you) to read more of your posts/perspectives re: our region. When/if you're so inclined, of course. 

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

This article is optimistic that a deal will be made in the next few days. The arena could bring more events here obviously, but the chances of a team seem slim.

http://pilotonline.com/sports/columnist/harry-minium/minium-oceanfront-still-not-the-best-arena-site-but-it/article_5f415557-11dc-5929-a9a2-b08e248a3d17.html

The Virginia Beach arena won't have all the amenities of most major sports arena, nor is it likely to ever become home to a major sports team. Milwaukee and Sacramento are building new NBA arenas that each will cost more than $500 million, twice the price tag for the Beach arena.

Developers acknowledged in late 2015 that it would cost $80 million to upgrade the Virginia Beach arena for NHL or NBA team, and that the entire structure of the deal would have to be renegotiated.

A major sports team moving here would likely demand much of the revenue designated to pay off the arena debt . Presumably, the city would have to cough of hundreds of millions of dollars to replace that revenue.

[vdogg]

18 minutes ago, BFG said:

This article is optimistic that a deal will be made in the next few days. The arena could bring more events here obviously, but the chances of a team seem slim.

http://pilotonline.com/sports/columnist/harry-minium/minium-oceanfront-still-not-the-best-arena-site-but-it/article_5f415557-11dc-5929-a9a2-b08e248a3d17.html

 

 

I could care less about the team tbh. Their formula seems sounds. Let's get this thing built and put VB on the map. This has the potential to be a catalyst to bring new things to the area in much the same way Town Center was. There is a lot of development in the pipeline that was proposed at least partially due to the prospect of an arena. 

[BFG]

Yeah...it would be nice to have options outside of the summer months, and development there would definitely help.

[vdogg]

Announcement Monday. I like the sound of that. 

[TNinVB]

4 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

My bad. I thought I remembered they were having financial difficulties in the recent past.

No worries. They are having an off season right now but that's about it.

[carolinaboy]

Why doesn't this have to go to referendum like light rail did?

[BFG]

I'm guessing because taxpayer dollars are only going towards infrastructure. Everything else is said to come from private funding, a hotel tax and possible naming rights.

[vdogg]

NOTHING has to go to referendum, all referendums are advisory. The city only puts things up for referendum when they can't find the ba...err umm...intestinal fortitude necessary to actually make a decision as they were elected to do.

Even the light rail referendum, which was put on the ballot due to the necessary signatures having been received, is advisory. The city could ignore it if they wish, but this would be politically untenable.

[baobabs727]

Yes, and all of that would be true for the first, second and...ahem...third (!) referendum on the same matter!

I wrote to Mayor Sessoms before the third referendum explaining the same and imploring him to actually lead. He wrote me back saying that he intended to both lead AND follow. Ha ha.

[baobabs727]

Insidebiz slideshow presentation of what could be in store for the region if the arena deal goes through. 

http://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/economic-development/what-a-virginia-beach-arena-could-mean-for-hampton-roads/collection_85ede452-0b64-55ac-af28-3dd60e5d7a97.html#4

Edited March 3, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

It mentions hockey at the Beach, with the Admirals as the feeder team. I don't think we have two teams in the region; I think the Admirals possibly move to Richmond though.

[baobabs727]

I agree. There have been whispers for years of Richmond doing some sort of public-private deal for a new arena. They really need a new arena.  

Notice I said "public." Apparently with their governmental structure and their metro transportation authority, they have more of a will to spend public monies on something like this than do we down here.  

Though I'll tell you, we should be mighty proud if we get this thing done down here privately without any government bonds whatsoever. Amazing indicator of the high confidence in our local economy and of our region's future potential.

Edited March 3, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

I was in Farm Fresh today, and yesterday's paper was on the counter. One of the front page headlines was about the arena, but I only skimmed the article. Apparently, Joel Rubin (local PR guy, former news reporter for the area) mentions there's going to be some big announcements about the arena this week.

Sounds like this is going to happen, no more false starts. Can't wait to get the additional details in a couple of days...