"Music City Park": our own version of Central Park (merged Centennial Park - My complaint)

[nashvylle]

Please move this thread to the coffee talk forum if need be, but I must say I absolutely love Centennial Park and think it's one of Nashville's most underrated assets, but I must vent-

I really wish this park was on the East Bank.... I like where it is placed, but every time I pass by the Titans stadium and see that car dump, I imagine the Parthenon situation there and thinking how Nashville would have a true "DC" like feel to it. So many people would be attracted to the downtown views and the river, it just makes me upset about the current circumstances.

I feel like the car dump might be moved within 10 years, but does anyone know how the Parthenon was initially funded and if we could have something similar to it on the East Bank, or maybe create a park / structure similar to Washington Square Park in New York City?

The East Bank is screaming for something like the Parthenon to be placed there, and if anyone has any idea on the negotiations between the City and the car dump, please inform as I have not seen anything lately in the news.

[Neigeville]

Please move this thread to the coffee talk forum if need be, but I must say I absolutely love Centennial Park and think it's one of Nashville's most underrated assets, but I must vent-

I really wish this park was on the East Bank.... I like where it is placed, but every time I pass by the Titans stadium and see that car dump, I imagine the Parthenon situation there and thinking how Nashville would have a true "DC" like feel to it. So many people would be attracted to the downtown views and the river, it just makes me upset about the current circumstances.

I feel like the car dump might be moved within 10 years, but does anyone know how the Parthenon was initially funded and if we could have something similar to it on the East Bank, or maybe create a park / structure similar to Washington Square Park in New York City?

The East Bank is screaming for something like the Parthenon to be placed there, and if anyone has any idea on the negotiations between the City and the car dump, please inform as I have not seen anything lately in the news.

I agree that would be fantastic, esp. for people coming into Nashville on 24.

The Parthenon was originally built as a temporary building for the Centennial Exposition. People liked it so much they kept it even though it has required some extensive renovation work over the years (owing to having been built as a temporary building).

This is how the Space Needle in Seattle (1962 World's Fair) was built as well, but I don't think this method is likely to yield us any new buildings, they don't do expositions like that nowadays.

Last I heard the scrap metal people were happy where they are, and when they leave it will take lots of time and money to move & clean up the place. I think we will have to see more development on the East Bank before we can get rid of them. I would like to see the Titans parking turned lot by lot into mixed use development with parking on the lower levels (to take care of the flood zone issue), effectively raising an artificial ground level just a bit higher than what it is now.

I would really like to see some mixed use development with a residential component at the foot of the pedestrian bridge on both sides.

[MLBrumby]

I agree that would be fantastic, esp. for people coming into Nashville on 24.

The Parthenon was originally built as a temporary building for the Centennial Exposition. People liked it so much they kept it even though it has required some extensive renovation work over the years (owing to having been built as a temporary building).

This is how the Space Needle in Seattle (1962 World's Fair) was built as well, but I don't think this method is likely to yield us any new buildings, they don't do expositions like that nowadays.

Last I heard the scrap metal people were happy where they are, and when they leave it will take lots of time and money to move & clean up the place. I think we will have to see more development on the East Bank before we can get rid of them. I would like to see the Titans parking turned lot by lot into mixed use development with parking on the lower levels (to take care of the flood zone issue), effectively raising an artificial ground level just a bit higher than what it is now.

I would really like to see some mixed use development with a residential component at the foot of the pedestrian bridge on both sides.

As I understand the original (temporary) Parthenon stood for about 30-35 years, and was completely torn down and replaced by a "new" permanent structure around 1930. The one there now is supposed to be there a long time.

Some of you may recall that about 10 years ago there was a move to plan/fundraise for an American Music center at the spot on the East side that is occupied by part of the new park and part of the PSC site. Overshadowed by the Sounds Ballpark proposal for the Thermal Site, it was to combine all genres of music and serve as a combination of history (of the evolution of American music) and conservatory and small concert hall. I didn't hear anything about it after the economy crashed... but I think it also did not get an enthusiastic reception from the powers that run the CMHoF. Now that the Sounds plan has failed, it would be great if this idea were to be revived on the Thermal site... as it looks like the PSC site will always remain a junkyard.

[bwithers1]

The master plan for the riverfront parks does include additional park space on the East Bank going north to the Spring Street bridge, as well as further south including a boat slip (called Cayce Landing) under the Silliman Evans (I-24) bridge to replace the one at Shelby park, but really the only mixed-use that we are likely to get close to the waterfront is the Bridge Building, which is part office (Metro Parks, plus some available floors for private users) and part restaurant/event space (their website has now gone live for leasing).

The fact that PSC metals site is in a flood plane will also limit what gets built there, although a baseball stadium could work as well as a football stadium in that respect. I do not expect to see homes built on the PSC Metals site. Ever.

Now, there had been talks about digging a canal to surround LP field and putting condos in with a marina, but that will happen right after I-24 gets turned into a beautiful, pedestrian-and-bike friendly, landscaped boulevard (not in our lifetimes).

None of this is to say that there will not be improvement in that area.

• Those exiting at Shelby Ave used to see high fences with razor wire surrounding the Cayce Homes as a "Welcome to East Nashville" moment. Rediscover East worked hard to get the wrought-iron fences put there instead, which does look better.
  
• The Edgefield cottages at 5th and Shelby are getting a rework, although I personally think that the design creates wasteful facades rather than expanding the homes or something and that it will not age well.
  
• The New Edition apartments on South 5th are going to be more market rate, but still affordable for artists/musicians/bartenders/wait staff. They aren't really going to look different, but at least there is investment there.
  
• There has been some interest in opening microbreweries or things like that behind PSC metals and going towards Davidson Street, which in my opinion would change its tune if it were renamed as Riverside Drive (it's original name, before the portion along the riverside was changed to Davidson, leaving the north-south portion that goes to Inglewood inexplicably still named Riverside even though it does not go alongside the river or even go all the way to the river).
  

Probably the best hope for the PSC metals site is to build a baseball stadium or some sort of event venue there, so that at least there would be potential tax revenue to offset the enormous cost that would be involved for relocating PSC and doing environmental remediation.

[MTFAN]

The projects being so close to the PCS metals site really hurts that area development wise as well.

[dmillsphoto]

A few friends and I were discussing the possibility of turning it into a MLS stadium. I think that would be a great idea. But honestly, I'd take anything else there. Anything.

[Nathan_in_DC]

A few friends and I were discussing the possibility of turning it into a MLS stadium. I think that would be a great idea. But honestly, I'd take anything else there. Anything.

That would be great, actually. As has been discussed before, Nashville could be a good candidate for MLS expansion, and this would be a great spot to have a stadium.

[MLBrumby]

The master plan for the riverfront parks does include additional park space on the East Bank going north to the Spring Street bridge, as well as further south including a boat slip (called Cayce Landing) under the Silliman Evans (I-24) bridge to replace the one at Shelby park, but really the only mixed-use that we are likely to get close to the waterfront is the Bridge Building, which is part office (Metro Parks, plus some available floors for private users) and part restaurant/event space (their website has now gone live for leasing).

The fact that PSC metals site is in a flood plane will also limit what gets built there, although a baseball stadium could work as well as a football stadium in that respect. I do not expect to see homes built on the PSC Metals site. Ever.

Now, there had been talks about digging a canal to surround LP field and putting condos in with a marina, but that will happen right after I-24 gets turned into a beautiful, pedestrian-and-bike friendly, landscaped boulevard (not in our lifetimes).

None of this is to say that there will not be improvement in that area.

• Those exiting at Shelby Ave used to see high fences with razor wire surrounding the Cayce Homes as a "Welcome to East Nashville" moment. Rediscover East worked hard to get the wrought-iron fences put there instead, which does look better.
  
• The Edgefield cottages at 5th and Shelby are getting a rework, although I personally think that the design creates wasteful facades rather than expanding the homes or something and that it will not age well.
  
• The New Edition apartments on South 5th are going to be more market rate, but still affordable for artists/musicians/bartenders/wait staff. They aren't really going to look different, but at least there is investment there.
  
• There has been some interest in opening microbreweries or things like that behind PSC metals and going towards Davidson Street, which in my opinion would change its tune if it were renamed as Riverside Drive (it's original name, before the portion along the riverside was changed to Davidson, leaving the north-south portion that goes to Inglewood inexplicably still named Riverside even though it does not go alongside the river or even go all the way to the river).
  

Probably the best hope for the PSC metals site is to build a baseball stadium or some sort of event venue there, so that at least there would be potential tax revenue to offset the enormous cost that would be involved for relocating PSC and doing environmental remediation.

Here are some renderings of proposals for the area now occupied by PSC... http://nashvillepost...st_banks_future

Everyone talks about making it as much parkland as possible, but I take the opposite approach. I really think there should be enough land available for office/mixed use as an alternative to Cool Springs/ Franklin. Yes, there should be some smaller parks interspersed with the office, but an urban mix, much like the proposals for the May Town Center. This should be that alternative that Mayor Dean was looking for.

[Nathan_in_DC]

Does the Post read this forum to get ideas for stories?

[bwithers1]

Here are some renderings of proposals for the area now occupied by PSC... http://nashvillepost...st_banks_future

Everyone talks about making it as much parkland as possible, but I take the opposite approach. I really think there should be enough land available for office/mixed use as an alternative to Cool Springs/ Franklin. Yes, there should be some smaller parks interspersed with the office, but an urban mix, much like the proposals for the May Town Center. This should be that alternative that Mayor Dean was looking for.

While I hear you about using this area as an extension of downtown, the problem with placing structures on this site is the flood plain issue that covers quite a bit of the area. Particularly the part of the property that faces downtown. The higher elevation part of the land is right up next to the interstate/Shelby. So that's part of why people realisitically have park space in mind for quite a bit of this property. Parks (and even the Titans stadium) did pretty well in the flood, whereas structures need quite a bit of mold remediation, etc. Plus, parks or public uses are easier from a federal environmental funding perspective and from an eminent domain perspective.

[Nathan_in_DC]

While I hear you about using this area as an extension of downtown, the problem with placing structures on this site is the flood plain issue that covers quite a bit of the area. Particularly the part of the property that faces downtown. The higher elevation part of the land is right up next to the interstate/Shelby. So that's part of why people realisitically have park space in mind for quite a bit of this property. Parks (and even the Titans stadium) did pretty well in the flood, whereas structures need quite a bit of mold remediation, etc. Plus, parks or public uses are easier from a federal environmental funding perspective and from an eminent domain perspective.

Plus, the more non-permeable land you have the worse it fares in a flood. Parkland that includes significant wetlands can be a huge boon to controlling flood waters.

[timmay143]

Ooo...I love the sine curve bridge and the loop design! So does the winning design get built for sure??

[nashvillwill]

I imagine that the winners take is a candy bar, a plaque that reads "honorary urban planner", and a thread on this website for us to debate the merits of the design.

[bwithers1]

Ooo...I love the sine curve bridge and the loop design! So does the winning design get built for sure??

I like these, too. The sine bridge connecting maybe Middleton Street in RMH to the east bank is pretty cool. Maybe there could be a pulsing bead of light that follows the sine curve? Although there are already other bridges pretty close by. But then again, how many times have both the Gateway and the Pedestrian bridges been closed for events? More than I would care for. Apparently, we need more bridges in there!

I also like the crazy Music City Loop thing that hovers adjacent to I-24, I'm just not sure what it is exactly. It is kind of like the new pedestrian bridge that was put in Millennium Park in Chicago, but built on a scale closer to that of the new convention center! Is it an event space or a giant gym? On the other hand, it is totally enclosed. Is it saying to West Siders, "come over to the East Bank, but don't leave your protective glass bubble?" Either way, It would definitely be eye-catching in a manner quite unlike PSC metals.

In terms of what if any of these plans would come to fruition, I would guess something like Number 4, (which in true Nashville fashion doesn't seem to be finished).

Even though some of these designs are kind of out there, I'm glad that the Civic Design Center had this competition. After all, this is a "design" competition, not an engineering competition. Part of the purpose is to get people to leave practicality behind and think creatively.

[timmay143]

I like these, too. The sine bridge connecting maybe Middleton Street in RMH to the east bank is pretty cool. Maybe there could be a pulsing bead of light that follows the sine curve? Although there are already other bridges pretty close by. But then again, how many times have both the Gateway and the Pedestrian bridges been closed for events? More than I would care for. Apparently, we need more bridges in there!

Yeah, I don't think you can have too many bridges there at the moment. I feel like the ones we have now are just ok (for connectivity on a walk-able scale). The Shelby bridge and the Gateway are a good, but the Woodland and Main St. bridge just seem to be good for cars. At least, IMO, I dunno exactly because I haven't been that way in awhile.

Anyways, I think the sine bridge would probably be best as a pedestrian and bikeway to help connect the RMH and Shelby bottoms (?) areas. Would like to see something on the north side like this too one day.

I also like the crazy Music City Loop thing that hovers adjacent to I-24, I'm just not sure what it is exactly. It is kind of like the new pedestrian bridge that was put in Millennium Park in Chicago, but built on a scale closer to that of the new convention center! Is it an event space or a giant gym? On the other hand, it is totally enclosed. Is it saying to West Siders, "come over to the East Bank, but don't leave your protective glass bubble?" Either way, It would definitely be eye-catching in a manner quite unlike PSC metals.

I thought the same. Kind of reminds me of the KFC place in Louisville (their new arena). Maybe it is a baseball and/or a soccer stadium?

In terms of what if any of these plans would come to fruition, I would guess something like Number 4, (which in true Nashville fashion doesn't seem to be finished).

Haha, it does leave you questioning. Like, what..., the.., is....? Maybe that's the point. To get you to stop and think, like a "true" art piece.

Even though some of these designs are kind of out there, I'm glad that the Civic Design Center had this competition. After all, this is a "design" competition, not an engineering competition. Part of the purpose is to get people to leave practicality behind and think creatively.

Agreed, hopefully they will use a combination of these ideas to move this area forward.

For archiving and easier viewing:

[MidTenn1]

Number 3 has some interesting ideas...

They show a baseball stadium between the two bridges. I wasn't sure if there was room to do that, but apparently they recommend relocating the Shelby Street Bridge approach to make room.

Also, they show a single point urban interchange (spui) to replace the Shelby Street interchange. It would be similiar to the spui on I-65 in Cool Springs at McEwen Drive.

[MLBrumby]

While I hear you about using this area as an extension of downtown, the problem with placing structures on this site is the flood plain issue that covers quite a bit of the area. Particularly the part of the property that faces downtown. The higher elevation part of the land is right up next to the interstate/Shelby. So that's part of why people realisitically have park space in mind for quite a bit of this property. Parks (and even the Titans stadium) did pretty well in the flood, whereas structures need quite a bit of mold remediation, etc. Plus, parks or public uses are easier from a federal environmental funding perspective and from an eminent domain perspective.

Yes, the flood plain is an issue, but there are flood control methods that have already been discussed, such as levees, canals, and (of course the dam upriver), in addition to the floodplain itself. And let's not forget the utility of parking structures (the "stilts" if you will) that support office, residential, and other human spaces above flood prone areas. Unfortunately, that risk was not considered prior to the construction of the Schermerhorn and other buildings along lower Broadway, which is actually more floodprone than the East Bank as was seen two years ago. If the reports are correct, that section flooded before the LP field on the east side.

So yes... attention needs to be paid to flooding, but that's what good planning, placement and engineering will address... and generous parkland will help in the necessary floodplain. But (here's my point) this area needs to be used for density, density, DENSITY. I still don't know if Mayor Dean sees the potential of this land as the "May Town" answer he sought to counter the flight businesses to Williamson County. Granted, much of this land is owned by private entities, and there's no expectation that it would be easy or quick to acquire those properties. Then again, there is a challenge for the mayor now, isn't it? It would be a fine time to show how good he is at negotiating a fair price for the PSC land, negotiating a superior site where the company could relocate, help in the moving costs, learn about all the (potential) cleanup and abatement issues of that land, and all those "little" things. Challenge!!

[nashwatcher]

The east bank land...if we created a huge park where PSC is, if planned properly, seems like it would be an invaluable asset for this city for decades/generations to come

1) helps with flood plain issue

2) provides a great resource for those living/working/visiting downtown

3) is environmentally progressive

4) is a rare opportunity for the downtown of a developing city

Let east nashville/sobro/germantown/west end continue to become more dense...

Be smart. Save this space for our city and generations to come!!!

IMO

[nashvylle]

Agree- Could be Nashville's version of "Central Park".

I wouldn't mind some mixed-use like some of the designs have laid out, but I think it should be music-themed as well (NOT TACKY, NO GUITAR SHAPED BUILDINGS!!!) with amphitheatres (maybe a very large one), with fountains, small bridges, monuments, canals, etc.

I wouldn't even mind having a school mixed in to add to the diversity of the area (thinking similar to Hume Fogg)...

Many cities would die to have land with such great potential.. Now we just need PSC to leave.

[arkitekte]

A park would be nice, but the East Bank needs more than just a park. Like you said this is a rare chance for a city to be able to develop something downtown like this so, develop something that will get tourist and citizens of Nashville to the East Bank on an everyday basis. Once that attraction is there start the dense mixed use developments.

I will however flip out if I see a parking lot, or building that has just one specific use and is not 3 or 4 floors.

[MLBrumby]

just a suggestion to the mod... perhaps this thread should be combined with the "Centennial Park - My complaint" thread.

[UTgrad09]

I do think there's an opportunity for a good amount of green space on the East Bank (we're already seeing some of the work done). I think arkitekte is right, though. The East Bank needs more. It (outside of LP Field and the new Cumberland Park) needs a complete overhaul.

Eventually, I believe the plan is to make a strip of greenway along the banks of the river all the way from LP Field to Shelby Park (that will obviously take some time).

I think the actual park only needs to take up the space between S 1st/Davidson to the river, though. A lot of the other land could prove valuable for development in the future. But I think that location has to improve a bit before that happens (muchos projects across I-24, as well as the county jail).

I think there is an opportunity for a semi-decent hotel or two (that isn't filled with hookers, roaches, or rats) to occupy one of the sites along Korean Vets/Shelby. Ramada and Stadium Inn need to just be imploded. They're probably more contaminated than PSC.

Another thought is that the PSC site would be a great place for a new minor league baseball park. The definite positives would be that most of the infrastructure would already be in place. No new parking would have to be built (other than a limited number of VIP spots to be close), and it would give Nashville a nice little sports venue triangle.

Also, I think it would be nice to consolidate the Titans parking. The city (and/or Titans) would likely never go for this...but my thought would be to get rid of the spots west of 2nd St (and turn the Cumberland Park lot into a green lot), and build up a very large 3 story parking garage on the east side of the stadium. Since fans like to tailgate, obviously, there would be several large elevators that lead to the roof, as well as a ramp so people can take their large cooking equipment up top. The roof would be completely covered in grass and would replace acres and acres asphalt. Including the parking along the west side of the stadium, there are probably damn near 10,000 asphalt parking spaces that you would be replacing with green grass.

[dmillsphoto]

Well, I've already mentioned the MLS idea, should they have an expansion and choose Nashville as a city to receive a team. I think that whole area needs to be mixed use - mostly green space but needs residential, hotel, retail, and office closer to Shelby (off the flood plane).

If you take the latest Cool Springs development and apply the same concept at the PSC/surrounding site, you would have a pretty successful area.

[MidTenn1]

I would predict, that in 15 to 20 years, Nashville will build a domed stadium. And the only logical place for it would be next to the existing stadium which would be demolished once the new one is built. So, for a few years, a large part of the East bank would be restricted.

My thoughts regarding the likelihood of the City building such a facility revolve around a couple of things:

• A domed stadium is the next step to enhancing Nashville's brand as a destination and event City. We could host Superbowls, Grammies, Final fours, large conventions, and so on.
  
• We have 15 years to prepare for it; discuss the feasibility and need and financing. When the Oilers came to town, it was all we could do to get the one we have now, approved and built. But Nashville-Davidson County's population may be approaching 1,000,000 by then which will provide a more reasonable tax base to finance such a structure.
  

I can see this happening!

PS: The current stadium could be reduced to just the lower bowl level for soccer (25.000 seats).

[nashvylle]

That's a great idea PHofKS.

NOT that this would ever happen, but if Nashville was in serious contention to host the Olympics, the East bank would be a perfect, undeveloped site for an Olympic Park. But I digress....