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I-4 Widening Project


GRS328

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I like the toll idea on I-4. Without them, just expanding the freeway will cause more sprawl down to Osceola and Volusia counties. In some way, the expressways and tolls are a good thing for promoting urbanism in Orlando - certainly we don't pay income taxes to finance an expanded freeway in Florida - so why not pay for them though this creative toll financing?

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A good idea would be to think of ways to convert SR436 (Semoran Blvd) into a freeway from Hwy 441 in Apopka down to the Beeline. John Yng Pkwy is another good possibility. The idea is to get a free bypass around downtown Orlando, because no one is using the Greenway. Or maybe FDOT could post signs along I-4 in Sanford & Kissimmee promoting the Greenway as a bypass around all the traffic. Either way, SOMETHING needs to be done.

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I don't see how you could pull that off. 436 is a major state road with thousands of businesses along it. A limited access freeway would shut all of those businesses down. No way Jose!

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If there's enough right-of-way, they could convert 436 into a limited access highway with frontage roads, in a fashion similar to portions of US 19 in Pinellas County. The frontages would serve local traffic and would have signalized intersections, allow ingress and egress for businesses and residences, and the limited access lanes would allow through-traffic to flow freely without signals. This might be feasible for the segment between the airport and the 408 or Colonial Dr.

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If there's enough right-of-way, they could convert 436 into a limited access highway with frontage roads, in a fashion similar to portions of US 19 in Pinellas County. The frontages would serve local traffic and would have signalized intersections, allow ingress and egress for businesses and residences, and the limited access lanes would allow through-traffic to flow freely without signals. This might be feasible for the segment between the airport and the 408 or Colonial Dr.

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I don't think enough ROW exists along 436 to do this. It would definitely put a lot of good business out of business, just as the widening of 436 did back in the 90's between University and 17-92. :blink:

Besides, wasn't Goldenrod Road widened to provide another artery between the 408 (and even further - Aloma) and the MCO? :P

The only real solution is two-fold: 1) provide for affordable and attractive mass transit (light rail, etc.) and 2) convince people that there's a benefit to be had by giving up their cars (even if only 25% of the time). Of course, the automotive and fuel oil industries wouldn't exactly back this, now would they? :whistling:

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I don't exactly care for the toll lanes either but if they can't get the money elsewhere (i.e. taxes) to make road improvements than i guess i am for them. AS LONG as they don't blow the money away on government fleecing and corruption. If they can finance Light rail and or other means of mass transit with more tolls than i'd be the first to sign up for an e-pass. I just don't like how these execs of these authorities (Lynx, Expressway Authroity for example) blow money on overseas trips and Vegas trips etcetra. I dont mind paying for things if it is properly spent.

p.s. reminds me of the United Way charities spending problems. :ph34r::whistling: B)

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I'm sure they could easily do without the toll lanes, financially speaking. Since it isn't all of I-4, this is going to be used by those who want a shorter commute and are willing to pay extra for it, hence why they call them "Lexus lanes".

But no matter what, I could not imagine living in Florida and not having a SunPass/E-PASS...

What I'm curious about, is who would receive the toll revenues collected on I-4? The Expressway Authority, the Turnpike Enterprise, or whom? Given that I-4 is the responsibility of FDOT District 5, it's an interesting jurisdictional issue. Then, would the money collected off of I-4 be used only for I-4, or would it go into the bigger bucket and finance more toll roads?

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I like the toll idea on I-4.  Without them, just expanding the freeway will cause more sprawl down to Osceola and Volusia counties.  In some way, the expressways and tolls are a good thing for promoting urbanism in Orlando - certainly we don't pay income taxes to finance an expanded freeway in Florida - so why not pay for them though this creative toll financing?

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Okay, let me re-phrase again. Putting tolls on I-4, downtown, is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. :D

If they kept the tolls out, putting one around Maitland and one around Sand Lake, that would be much better. I-4, even with widening, is still going to be a cluster-F*. Adding tolls right in the middle of the highest volume area will not be a good idea. However, as you said, adding tolls for the people who commute in from the suburban sprawl wouldn't be a bad idea.

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I don't exactly care for the toll lanes either but if they can't get the money elsewhere (i.e. taxes) to make road improvements than i guess i am for them. AS LONG as they don't blow the money away on government fleecing and corruption. If they can finance Light rail and or other means of mass transit with more tolls than i'd be the first to sign up for an e-pass. I just don't like how these execs of these authorities (Lynx, Expressway Authroity for example) blow money on overseas trips and Vegas trips etcetra. I dont mind paying for things if it is properly spent.

p.s.  reminds me of the United Way charities spending problems. :ph34r:  :whistling:  B)

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You don't actually think the government might spend the money the way they say they are going to or spend it wisely, do you? :D

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If there's enough right-of-way, they could convert 436 into a limited access highway with frontage roads, in a fashion similar to portions of US 19 in Pinellas County. The frontages would serve local traffic and would have signalized intersections, allow ingress and egress for businesses and residences, and the limited access lanes would allow through-traffic to flow freely without signals. This might be feasible for the segment between the airport and the 408 or Colonial Dr.

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Thats why US 19 has the most traffic in St.Peterburg and more that I-275

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^ US 19 is congested because Pinellas County is a long and narrow peninsula with nearly 1 million people on it, and only two north-south roads (US 19 and ALT 19) that go all the way through, limited east-west connections, and inadequate transit. And if you live or work anywhere from Tarpon Springs to Ulmerton Road, you're screwed, because there's nothing else besides 19.

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OK, so the idea to convert SR 436 into a freeway is an un-popular idea to some on here. However, does anyone remember talk of building an elevated expressway over SR436 from E/W Expwy (408) down to the airport/Beeline (528)? If this happens, it only makes sense to just convert the whole thing into an expressway.

How about John Young Pkwy? I think there could be enough ROW from I-4 up to US 441 for a freeway conversion, however Lee Rd becomes an big issue.

I think another poster mentioned how there are not enough east/west connectors for the Greenway around I-4, which is true. In fact, once you reach Seminole county as a whole, there are NO east/west expressways, only SR 434. Talk about a mess...

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What's the timeframe on this ?

Funny, too, that many voted against 20/20 because they didn't want 'Lexus lanes'. And we're getting them anyway!

Is this a great country, or what ?  ;)

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That may be why they voted in their minds but they weren't really voting for or against Lexus Lanes. They were voting for:

a) Pay with sales tax so we get in 4-5 years and let tourist pay 1/3 or

B) Wait until state & local property taxes totally paid by us add up to enough to start in 13 years or so when it's already obsolete.

They picked b

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I'm curious to know why everyone is so against the tolled expess lanes. I think they would be a great option for people passing through downtown, especially truck traffic. I believe that giving people the option of saving time for a price is a good option. It will create additional revenue for the state for future improvements. At least these toll lanes will be at ground level (sort of), not elevated like Tampa's Stonehenge on the Crosstown. I'm against that project more than any other in the state. $450 million now for a road that is only accessible to a certain group of people and can only be used during certain times of the day. That is a waste of money.

Toll lanes through orlando would be a decent alternative for commuters who are willing to pay for the time savings. They work everywhere else they're implemented, why not orlando?

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If separated lanes are going to be part of the equation, I'd MUCH rather see real HOV lanes, that are separate from the rest of the highway, and are also reversible depending on the time of day and traffic flow.

HOV lanes would obviously encourage carpooling as well as bus-riding to some extent. All that Lexus lanes will accomplish is to allow those with money to get by faster. Meanwhile, the less wealthy people (who are more likely to carpool or take Lynx) will continue to be stuck in traffic. This is just another proposal that is most likely to help the people who need help the least.

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I'm curious to know why everyone is so against the tolled expess lanes.  I think they would be a great option for people passing through downtown, especially truck traffic.  I believe that giving people the option of saving time for a price is a good option.  It will create additional revenue for the state for future improvements.  At least these toll lanes will be at ground level (sort of), not elevated like Tampa's Stonehenge on the Crosstown.  I'm against that project more than any other in the state.  $450 million now for a road that is only accessible to a certain group of people and can only be used during certain times of the day.  That is a waste of money. 

Toll lanes through orlando would be a decent alternative for commuters who are willing to pay for the time savings.  They work everywhere else they're implemented, why not orlando?

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Because Orlando already has more toll roads than any other major Metro area in the US and we're being tolled to death! NO MORE TOLL ROADS!

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I just find it insane to put a toll on a major interstate highway like I-4. It isn't just a commuter road or beltway, it's a major interstate (though only in Florida, it's still an interstate). We think the tolls are bad on the 408 during rush hour, imagine them on I-4! I just think it's a bad idea. Also, you can't tell me the government isn't collecting enough from the other toll roads. It's just that the money has been diverted away from it's original purpose, to fund the roads, and into other pork programs for the government. I'd be fine with paying more tolls for roads if I knew the gas tax and tolls were all going where it was supposed to be going, but it's not and I won't vote for another cent to be taken from me until it is going to the right place.

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^ It's NOT a toll road for those who don't want it to be; only those who choose those lanes.

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Yes yes...life is all about choices. People can now choose to use the 408, 417, Turnpike, or any other Toll road for that matter. The problem is, when your only option for a limited access highway is a Toll road (as is for the people in Hunters Creek and West Orange county) not everyone has the money to pay the tolls. Therefore, they are siphoned onto the surface roads, which are filled w/red lights & poor intersections. These roads, over time, are widened to where they have more lanes than the Highways (SR 436 in Altamonte now has 8 lanes). Toll lanes on I-4 will fix nothing and will creat more traffic than needed. Also, I foresee a lot more accidents from people trying to enter/exit the "Lexus lanes".

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