I-4 Widening Project

[Dale]

How do we then pay for more roads absent some kind of user-fee ? where does the money come from ? And don't people who avoid tolls (because they can't afford them) spend money anyway, in time lost, while navigating choked arterial roads ?

[prahaboheme]

If Texas can get federal money to build a "connecting" artery between its three major interstates, I'm sure Orlando can do the same for what is surely a more serious matter. I would suggest roads like those out in LA such as the Pasadena Parkway, a county road with very few exits that serves the citizens out there who need to get downtown (toll free and thus utilized).

[Dale]

But obviously we can't count on fed money. So where do we get the money ?

[prahaboheme]

Obviously we can't? Of course we can. Interstates are almost a sure bet for federal funding. Its things like lightrail that aren't.

[Dale]

Then where's the money if it's so easy to get ?

And remember, this is Orlando. Orlandoans are not going to vote themselves a tax increase (unless it's for the 'children').

[prahaboheme]

Who said anything about a tax increase? If Floridians helped fund the Big Dig, shouldn't the same be expected of their own roads? I'm starting to believe that the phrase "tax increase" is nothing more than loaded political rhetoric.

[cwetteland]

I know it's a pipe dream but of course the real answer isn't how to accommodate more cars. The real answer is how to reduce the number of cars.

A while back someone asked the same question about Eola Drive, which I thought was backward thinking. Thier question was, do you think Eola Drive was big enough for all the cars. I think Eola Drive is what it is. The question should be restated as, do you think there are too many cars for Eola Drive. And to that I say, yes. The first implied that Eola Drive needed to be widened. Phooey on that.

Put the blame on the car drivers not the road builders. I don't mind the tolls if the money is spent on mass transit and not just more roads. Roads may ease the pain but they don't cure the disease.

[Dale]

Who said anything about a tax increase?  If Floridians helped fund the Big Dig, shouldn't the same be expected of their own roads?  I'm starting to believe that the phrase "tax increase" is nothing more than loaded political rhetoric.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't get your meaning about tax increase. And I'm not even sure I know what we're arguing about anymore.

[GRS328]

Put the blame on the car drivers not the road builders.  I don't mind the tolls if the money is spent on mass transit and not just more roads.  Roads may ease the pain but they don't cure the disease.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your point is valid. However, I would put the majority of the blame on the planners who choose to widen the roads and build more of them and not give any consideration to alternative means of trans. It's pretty apparent most of us are not thrilled by widening roads, etc, which just invites more cars... but here in Orlando, there really isn't any other alternative than the roads. We don't have a choice.

You're dead on about easing the pain not curing the disease. My question is, why can't they (planners) see that? The logistics involved in instituting any kind of rail system is clearly daunting. But the logistics of the I-4 project alone are no more insanely scary (to me anyway). If they can devote so much resource to road projects, why not to other modes instead? Is it the public's fault they ignore alternatives?

[bobliocatt]

Why not take the money that will be used for I-4 expansion and use it to establish commuter and light rail lines instead? You can easily charge admission prices for rail and it really would be a local alternative to I-4. As long as I-4 remains the "only" logica limited express route through town, gridlock will never be solved, toll lanes or not.

[Dale]

Why not take the money that will be used for I-4 expansion and use it to establish commuter and light rail lines instead?  You can easily charge admission prices for rail and it really would be a local alternative to I-4.  As long as I-4 remains the "only" logica limited express route through town, gridlock will never be solved, toll lanes or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The first question is is it even possible to reallocate monies in this way ?

The second question is, since Orlandoans have doggedly opposed light rail, why will they now ?

[prahaboheme]

Lakelander I agree. I wish the State would tackle this issue head on with an agressive approach to mass transit, because I worry that if it isn't implimented now, it may be virtually impossible in the future with cost increases and land issues.

[Eternalrsx]

Well having read the responses to my post yesterday about the tolled option in the middle of I-4 I can somewhat understand the reasoning behind why people are against it. The general gist is that only those who can afford it will be able to get where they want faster. I don't necessarily agree with that thought but I can see where it can be perceived that way. I also saw a comment about federal funding for roads. Did anyone catch the USAToday article May 17th? If not here it is. I suggest reading it and when you're pissed off read more, then write you congressman and ask why. I already have, no response yet though. Where our tax money goes.

[Dale]

Well having read the responses to my post yesterday about the tolled option in the middle of I-4 I can somewhat understand the reasoning behind why people are against it.  The general gist is that only those who can afford it will be able to get where they want faster.  I don't necessarily agree with that thought but I can see where it can be perceived that way.  I also saw a comment about federal funding for roads.  Did anyone catch the USAToday article May 17th?  If not here it is.  I suggest reading it and when you're pissed off read more, then write you congressman and ask why.  I already have, no response yet though.  Where our tax money goes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read it, and it's enough to make me want to become an acolyte of Ayn Rand.

And I can't even stand the woman.

[OCF]

One of the main reasons light rail has recieved little popular support in the past is that the proposed routes have always been planned for the southside of the metro area which is the tourist corridor. Most of what you've heard in the past is light rail as a means for getting tourist from the airport to the parks or attracting more people from the theme parks into the city and this is something most locals oppose. Most local residents have a knee jerk bad reaction to spending tax dollars for anything that primarily benefits the theme parks or out of towners since we feel they make so much money they should be able to support these projects themselves. The first light rail proposal was killed because Universal and Disney both wanted exclusive advertising rights on the trains and the stations and couldn't find a compromise. That really left a bitter taste in most of our mouths. I would bet that if the first leg of the light rail route ran from Sanford through Altamonte and Winterpark into the new Lynxx central station and the marketing strategy was changed to appeal to area residents on the how Light rail would serve as a viable commuting option it would receive alot more popular support.

[Chief Eola]

If Texas can get federal money to build a "connecting" artery between its three major interstates, I'm sure Orlando can do the same for what is surely a more serious matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait, what state are Tom DeLay and President Bush from?

[orlfun]

Wait, what state are Tom DeLay and President Bush from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yep and we get Jebber

[depechecureguyorl]

Well having read the responses to my post yesterday about the tolled option in the middle of I-4 I can somewhat understand the reasoning behind why people are against it.  The general gist is that only those who can afford it will be able to get where they want faster.  I don't necessarily agree with that thought but I can see where it can be perceived that way.  I also saw a comment about federal funding for roads.  Did anyone catch the USAToday article May 17th?  If not here it is.  I suggest reading it and when you're pissed off read more, then write you congressman and ask why.  I already have, no response yet though.  Where our tax money goes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I too read it and I emailed Congressman Ric Keller the article and a little rant about everyday life in traffic strangled Orlando. I also read his "News" and "Issues" sections on his website and it appears his current priorities are; Lowering Taxes, Social Security Reform, and the War of Terror, and something he lovingly refers to as the "Cheesburger Bill". He even has 3 news articles pertaining to the subject. Anyway, "Traffic Relief" was nowhere to be found, so I'm NOT really expecting a response from my email.

[Go Gators]

I too read it and I emailed Congressman Ric Keller the article and a little rant about everyday life in traffic strangled Orlando. I also read his "News" and "Issues" sections on his website and it appears his current priorities are; Lowering Taxes, Social Security Reform, and the War of Terror, and something he lovingly refers to as the "Cheesburger Bill". He even has 3 news articles pertaining to the subject. Anyway, "Traffic Relief" was nowhere to be found, so I'm NOT really expecting a response from my email. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As fas as Congressman Keller and his concerns on the situation, I can not reveal much now, but I can tell you that a candidate who will be running against him in the upcoming election is aware of and working on issues of traffic/road conditions in the Orlando area. I will release more when I can.

[Dale]

I too read it and I emailed Congressman Ric Keller the article and a little rant about everyday life in traffic strangled Orlando. I also read his "News" and "Issues" sections on his website and it appears his current priorities are; Lowering Taxes, Social Security Reform, and the War of Terror, and something he lovingly refers to as the "Cheesburger Bill". He even has 3 news articles pertaining to the subject. Anyway, "Traffic Relief" was nowhere to be found, so I'm NOT really expecting a response from my email. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go ahead and email the man. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Then if he responds, let us know what he said.

Do I seem bossy to you ?

[Dale]

As fas as Congressman Keller and his concerns on the situation, I can not reveal much now, but I can tell you that a candidate who will be running against him in the upcoming election is aware of and working on issues of traffic/road conditions in the Orlando area.  I will release more when I can.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be interesting to see if this mystery candidate has a prayer against Keller.

[cwetteland]

^ There suddenly seems to be folks on these boards that know stuff they can't talk about. Just an observation ... no slam intended (Go Gators and Steve-o)

[Dale]

^ There suddenly seems to be folks on these boards that know stuff they can't talk about.  Just an observation ... no slam intended (Go Gators and Steve-o)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are they deluded, or merely cruel ?

[Dale]

Hey ! Let's start a thread: 'Stuff I know that I can't tell you.' !

[Go Gators]

Be interesting to see if this mystery candidate has a prayer against Keller.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. Keller has a good reputation and will be tough to beat.