Jump to content

New Hotel on Broadway (Swerdling and Assoc.) | Old Westin Site | PROPOSED


smeagolsfree

Recommended Posts


  • Replies 60
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Meh. Coming off the pedestrian bridge there will be a mini canyon. Should be cool...

I think eventually, the whole of Broadway will be like a canyon/gap between the downtown skyscrapers and the SoBro skyscrapers. From the South, it will appear as one skyline. From the East, two distinctive ones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think eventually, the whole of Broadway will be like a canyon/gap between the downtown skyscrapers and the SoBro skyscrapers. From the South, it will appear as one skyline. From the East, two distinctive ones.

You've got that right. Coming from the East Side (from Shelby at the 2nd), the tallest things in the Broadway area are the peak of the Ryman and Masonic Lodge. It looks like a pretty wide chasm, which again is actually cool. Until recently, the tallest visible building in Sobro from that view was the Hilton. But now Sobro is getting its own skyline from that angle with Encore and the Omni.

So even at 20 stories, the Broadway hotel would stand out quite a bit between the two sides of the downtown canyon, or at least bring the south side canyon wall closer to the north side canyon wall, as seen from the east.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
Guest 5th & Main Urbanite

This could be official this time on Wednesday. Anne Roberts and Rick Barnhart are no longer with Metro to stop this, this time around. I remember back in 1989 when Anne Roberts and Gov. Lamar Alexander stopped the 22 story glass and steel tower on Second and Church Street because THEY thought the building was too tall for the site. Since then, a surface parking lot has been there creating a hole in the streetscape ever since. The story made national news. Two people scared developers enough that Nashville suffered for years after.

 

We can no longer have developers scared off by individuals because THEY feel a project is not right for a site. The Metro Council overwhelmingly approved the site for this hotel, and I supposed Swerdling will keep the same 19 story design that was originally proposed, and since then,  Sobro has added  13, 20, 23, and 29 story buildings only a couple of blocks from Broadway, so this building should start forthwith.

 

The question will be, if the original plan is realized,  what will happen with the existing businesses spanning the block from 3rd to Second Avenues?  Will the entire block be leveled and replica buildings be built? Will they be rehabilitated instead? Where will those business relocate?

 

There are a lot of questions to be answered, but the location is perfect. It will bridge the skyline hole between The Pinnacle and The ATT Tower. It will bridge Sobro with Nobro. It will enable easy access for the patrons to get to Lower Broadway and the MCC. Street access will be accessible on both Second Avenues and Third Avenues, and when the skyplane is again approved, the height could create a tall and slender building between 175 and 225 feet. We could see a tower as high as 300 feet if the original 19 story design is used, and the tower portion is on the small footprint of the Richards and Richards building only. Even at that height, 300 feet will well fit into the streetscape  setbacks from Lower Broadway.

 

The current surface lot could be aligned with 3-5 story human scaled pedestrian friendly buildings with more shops, restaurants and music venues. The current surface lot is hideous and does nothing for pedestrian connectivity. Currently it is a horrorshow for pedestrians.

 

In my humble opinion, this will be one of the most important projects in Sobro. This will enable Tony to focus on his residential tower. This will complete the area with a mixture of buildings with various heights and styles. It will eliminate a surface lot, and activate the street. It will rehab older buildings, or replace them. Most importantly, it will create much needed jobs, and does not effect the character of Lower Broadway.

 

We will know this week. Any thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"...will bridge Sobro, Bro, and Nobro" FTFY  :thumbsup: 

 

I do think, and that's why I posted the photo above, that this is definitely one of the more important projects that will define SoBro and tie it into the rest of the city. I am hopeful that we see something a bit stronger than the Omni, as well, in that regard (size, height, due to lot size). Hopefully you're correct in us hearing something this week. I think another project that will be vital to SoBro is what goes on the lot at the roundabout. IMHO, that lot could hold the key to how the rest of the entire loop is developed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anne Roberts may no longer be here, but the Metro Historic Zoning Commission is alive and well.  Downtown had lots of development after 1989, so I don't buy the idea that "two people," one of whom was the Governor, killed all development forevermore.  The failure to find something fitting for those lots is a failure of the property owners to develop the site or of the marking staff to find a prospective buyer with a viable plan and adequate financing. 

 

Plus, the historic zoning for downtown, and especially Broadway, was codified specifically because of the former Westin project.  So what has changed?  Anne Roberts or no Anne Roberts, this project will still need to respect the Broadway street frontage height of the existing buildings nearby.  At least we know that the existing plans from the former Westin project met those objectives, but the market downturn derailed the project. 

 

I would expect that the new design will keep most of the Broadway-side aspects of the original plan that activated the street with no more than 3-or-4 stories in height there.  Perhaps they will keep the music venue in the lobby that the original plan had?  Obviously there will be a tower in the rear, but I'm not expecting anything skyline-defining there, either.  It will add density, but not height, sort of the way the Hyatt Place does, but it will help to fill in that valley in the skyline when viewed from the riverfront.

 

This could be official this time on Wednesday. Anne Roberts and Rick Barnhart are no longer with Metro to stop this, this time around. I remember back in 1989 when Anne Roberts and Gov. Lamar Alexander stopped the 22 story glass and steel tower on Second and Church Street because THEY thought the building was too tall for the site. Since then, a surface parking lot has been there creating a hole in the streetscape ever since. The story made national news. Two people scared developers enough that Nashville suffered for years after.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 5th & Main Urbanite

Anne Roberts may no longer be here, but the Metro Historic Zoning Commission is alive and well.  Downtown had lots of development after 1989, so I don't buy the idea that "two people," one of whom was the Governor, killed all development forevermore.  The failure to find something fitting for those lots is a failure of the property owners to develop the site or of the marking staff to find a prospective buyer with a viable plan and adequate financing. 

 

Plus, the historic zoning for downtown, and especially Broadway, was codified specifically because of the former Westin project.  So what has changed?  Anne Roberts or no Anne Roberts, this project will still need to respect the Broadway street frontage height of the existing buildings nearby.  At least we know that the existing plans from the former Westin project met those objectives, but the market downturn derailed the project. 

 

I would expect that the new design will keep most of the Broadway-side aspects of the original plan that activated the street with no more than 3-or-4 stories in height there.  Perhaps they will keep the music venue in the lobby that the original plan had?  Obviously there will be a tower in the rear, but I'm not expecting anything skyline-defining there, either.  It will add density, but not height, sort of the way the Hyatt Place does, but it will help to fill in that valley in the skyline when viewed from the riverfront.

 I agree it is not just 2 people, but Nashville has had an archaic view of downtown for years. We had ordinances that did not allow residential in the CBD. We had height restrictions. We had ridiculous regulations that caused many developers to cut and run. Brett, my friend, I don't buy the argument Lower Broadway will lose character with a tower a block away considering the ATT Tower is a block away from Broadway.

 

The whole debacle over the Westin was an embarrassment. I expect that in Portland or Washington DC, not Nashville which needs the construction jobs, and service jobs that go with the finished product. Granted, the economy tanked, but the insane regulations forced upon Sage and Barber probably made them say to themselves it was not worth it. Just ask Debartolo when he left town after doing the One Nashville Place. It left a bad taste in his mouth too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, it's funny how you keep flip-flopping from blaming the developer to blaming the government for every structure not realized in our skyline. :)

 

As far as this goes...I think there are some considerations to take for how a structure addresses the historic district. The Westin proposal seemed perfectly fine and reasonable to me (without knowing every specific detail). There should be some setback there. Lower Broad is only 4 blocks long (and they're not big blocks, either), and a half block wide. I don't find fault with trying to preserve the character of the area. There are plenty of other areas where highrises can be built, and with fewer regulations. If a developer buys a plot on Lower Broad, then they should already know what the expectations/limitations are. 

 

 

 

As for who is to blame for the unrealized or underbuilt structures, I would suggest that some combination of overambitious developers, over-regulating government, and market forces at the time played a role in most of them. There's not always someone to blame, and many times one will accuse the other of derailing the project. Some of these folks are just stubborn, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anne Roberts may no longer be here, but the Metro Historic Zoning Commission is alive and well.  Downtown had lots of development after 1989, so I don't buy the idea that "two people," one of whom was the Governor, killed all development forevermore.  The failure to find something fitting for those lots is a failure of the property owners to develop the site or of the marking staff to find a prospective buyer with a viable plan and adequate financing. 

 

Plus, the historic zoning for downtown, and especially Broadway, was codified specifically because of the former Westin project.  So what has changed?  Anne Roberts or no Anne Roberts, this project will still need to respect the Broadway street frontage height of the existing buildings nearby.  At least we know that the existing plans from the former Westin project met those objectives, but the market downturn derailed the project. 

 

I would expect that the new design will keep most of the Broadway-side aspects of the original plan that activated the street with no more than 3-or-4 stories in height there.  Perhaps they will keep the music venue in the lobby that the original plan had?  Obviously there will be a tower in the rear, but I'm not expecting anything skyline-defining there, either.  It will add density, but not height, sort of the way the Hyatt Place does, but it will help to fill in that valley in the skyline when viewed from the riverfront.

 

Check out Legacy Tower in Chicago (2009).  The facade at street level, and then three or so floors above the street preserves the historic facades, while the new tower is set back from the street (the blue glass).  It works well...so well that unless you specifically know that Legacy is there you would think nothing had necessarily changed, other than the installing of new storefront glass, but the overall integrity of the brick and terracotta is still present. 

 

1742-sharpeblding_305.jpg

http://www.shaws-terracotta.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/usa-legacy/1742-sharpeblding_305.jpg

 

 

legacyjohnsonaerial.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OvonoKii_ds/ShIxtVFIllI/AAAAAAAAD2k/K41GLtIUIjw/s400/legacyjohnsonaerial.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 5th & Main Urbanite

John, it's funny how you keep flip-flopping from blaming the developer to blaming the government for every structure not realized in our skyline. :)

 

As far as this goes...I think there are some considerations to take for how a structure addresses the historic district. The Westin proposal seemed perfectly fine and reasonable to me (without knowing every specific detail). There should be some setback there. Lower Broad is only 4 blocks long (and they're not big blocks, either), and a half block wide. I don't find fault with trying to preserve the character of the area. There are plenty of other areas where highrises can be built, and with fewer regulations. If a developer buys a plot on Lower Broad, then they should already know what the expectations/limitations are. 

 

 

 

As for who is to blame for the unrealized or underbuilt structures, I would suggest that some combination of overambitious developers, over-regulating government, and market forces at the time played a role in most of them. There's not always someone to blame, and many times one will accuse the other of derailing the project. Some of these folks are just stubborn, too.

Yes, I am a flip-flopper on this issue!!! I think the issue is both parties rarely work together. Of course, most of you know my opinions on Lower Broadway, so we won't rehash that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've got that right. Coming from the East Side (from Shelby at the 2nd), the tallest things in the Broadway area are the peak of the Ryman and Masonic Lodge. It looks like a pretty wide chasm, which again is actually cool. Until recently, the tallest visible building in Sobro from that view was the Hilton. But now Sobro is getting its own skyline from that angle with Encore and the Omni.

So even at 20 stories, the Broadway hotel would stand out quite a bit between the two sides of the downtown canyon, or at least bring the south side canyon wall closer to the north side canyon wall, as seen from the east.

Was at a Preds game a week or two ago (worst best game ever :P) and parked south of the MCC.  Walked down 5th to the arena.  WOW, it is a transformation in that area for real!!!  The Encore, Pinnacle, MCC, Hilton, Arena, the CMHOF and expansion, Omni, and the Hyatt make that area look great!  I just hope there is plenty of street activity!!!!!!! When everything begins to open.   I think 8 days for the MCC??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.