UConn moving West Hartford campus to city

[HartfordTycoon]

I saw today that they are seeking further info from some of the proposals.   apparently those are the most interesting ones.

 

they have not eliminated any yet however.

 

so, I think it said they have 2 weeks to get the info back to UConn

 

 

 

Also, the state semi approved the 2B Uconn innitiative recently.  this bodes well for a few of the campuses.  Storrs mainly but Stamford will be expanded and add Dorms.  I think to offer more options as a NYC presence.

 

I saw that about Stamford. It's a great idea to add dorms there. I think that the UConn brand could really be a selling point to get some NY kids to think about enrolling who may prefer a more urban setting closer to home.

[beerbeer]

The search is cut down to four sites.  Talcott Building and Times Building seem to be the leaders. Either of those would be good chocies.

[The Voice of Reason]

agreed.  I am not sure which I prefer at this point.  I suppose it depends on the details of the proposals.

 

the other 2 potentials are an unidentified location and the datacenter north of I-91

 

the confirmation was though that the 2 front runners are in fact front runners

 

I think I would on concept alone pick Talcott

 

reason being that it will put a surfact lot to good use downtown and change the look and feel of that end of Main street.  for better or worse it continues to concentrate the student population on the norther ende of downtown.  with RPI UConn, CCC, and even the St Joes Pharm School in a small area... Uconn would actually be in the middle of that triangle.

 

Also, I really want the times building to be more housing on front street.  there is already a plan in place for that location so Id say let it ride!

there are no plans for the surface lot on Main street, so thats a total win.

 

I dont like UConn being right next to CCC though and Id really want to know what kind of building they are looking to build on either site.

[beerbeer]

We really need retail at Front Street to survive. So the question becomes which is better, 300 full time residents or 3,000 part-time students and facility? My guess is the 3,000. So build that first. Also, given the nature of Hartford projects, we know UConn will get done.  We're seen lots of phases two's that never get built.

[The Voice of Reason]

I accept your logic, but Front street already has the transient population required to make it work in the convention center as well as the mariott.

 

adding 3000 more in this part of town is less valuable than adding 3000 to main street.  the other thing is that the school will likely also bring some kind of bookstore that completely belongs on Main street, not Front Street.

 

other considerations... If front street phase 2 is only 115 apartments as planned and all that retail, it has a small impact.  Adding the students does not help the entertainment district feel or overnight population.  Adding 300 apartments would.   If however phase II were upgraded to being say 7 stories, adding 50% more apartments, I would be less concerned about no housing in Phase 3.  Also if the site plan were updated to have additional housing in Phase 4 (phase 4 is my term, it is listed as phase 3 in site plans but it is the parking lots right next to the whitehead that are used by arch street)  If these lots were turned into additional housing I would be more OK with UConn at the times building...

 

In fact, my ideal setting for that location would look like this...

Phase 2 would be built as planned or maybe with additional units if possible.  Phase 4 would be 2 buildings and have maybe 100 more units between them.  Then the housing that was intended to be ontop of Phase 1 would be added in.  I dont know how much they could add but know they would need to do it with stick built methods (it was mentioned several times that they are designed so housing can be added later, just not sure how much) If the housing ontop of the origonal buildings totals 1-200 and the total project includes 400+ units Ill be happy. Id still likelyprefer 700 units and no university, but ill take 400 with the university, even 300, but wouldnt want to see any less.

 

the reason for this is because this is a VERY nice part of downtown that if it were housing would really help to breath life into charter Oak and be, I'm sure a highly saught after address.  we need some glitz downtown so executives want to live here and therefore keep jobs here.

 

 

As far as Talcott... Meh... HATE that its next to CCC.  But thats a huge parking lot and I am sure it can be built in sich a way as to create a nice campus environment that interacts well with the city.  it also fills a glaring hole in the downtown fabric and will surely boos the existing retail paces in the area as well as any new space included in the project.  The good thing is that it also will help act as a bridge to "NODO" and maybe make that area more attractive to investors looking at the RFP for the city lots there. 

more importantly it concentrates vitaility in one of the mist vibrant parts of the city.

with the state offices, UConn, The Clarion hotel apartments, AI tech, 777 Main.... this part of the city could truely become vibrant.

that vibrancy may very well lead to development pressure on the Main/Asylum parking lot...

fix that lot... fix the image of the city.

[beerbeer]

Not that it makes any difference.

 

My rationale for putting UConn at Front Street starts, as previously mentioned, with the fact UConn will build this project. It will happen.  I don't believe that Front Street is a sustainable retail and entertainment district at the current time.  If and when a phase two comes on line it will help. But if it doesn't happen and UConn moves to Main Street, the project could very well become a collection of empty storefronts and a black eye for the city. Depending on the CCC is a feast and famine proposition.  It remains a gamble. Securing UConn would provide the project with stability and momentum. It would help phase two to become a reality. This reason alone makes UConn to Front Street very important.

 

Second, with its movie theater and music house, Front Street is built for a younger demographic which is exactly what UConn will provide. It will put 18-24 year old feet on the street in the daytime and the night students will be only slightly older.

 

The students will also be across the street from the Wadsworth Atheneum adding life another Hartford Institution. I think both the Atheneum and the university will benefit greatly by this proximity. The relationship of UConn and the Wadsworth could grow into something really special, I can see UConn Hartford establishing a cooperative arts and music presence with the museum.  Perhaps shared programs. To a lesser extent, I can also see UConn students getting involved at the Science Center.

 

With UConn, the Wadsworth, Infinity Music, the movie house, the Convention Center and the Science Center all a within a block of each other, the area should become an dynamic entertainment and cultural epicenter, not just for Hartford but for the entire region and state. It will have the critical mass to energize other projects and help sustain them. Re-opening the UConn merchandise store, that was formerly on Pratt Street, on Front Street would be a nice addition especially if combines with a book store as well. Perhaps even a branch of the UConn coop would be viable.

 

The Times Building location puts UConn Hartford at one end of Constitution Plaza and the UConn business school at the other.  That should breath additional life into CP.  A nice added benefit.

 

None of this happens at the Main Street site.  There would be some uptick in retail and dining but little else.  Other projects like 777 Main address these issues.  UConn would be nice to have but not critical to the success of Main Street businesses.

 

Anyway, like I said, not that it makes difference, but for me the Times Building makes the most sense for both the city and UConn.

[The Voice of Reason]

http://courantblogs.com/ct-real-estate/allyn-street-property-proposed-for-uconn-relocation/

 

 

I think this is a great location, but again execution makes all the difference as it would for any of these potential locations.  the positoves about Allyn street is that the sea of surfact lots are an absolute disaster for the area, and often act as a breeding ground for crime as people conclude minor drug deals, settle beefs and drunkenly do whatever drunken kids feel like doing.  Having University security in the area would surely help with the actual level of security as well as perceived level of security.  a campus here would make the antire area feel much more walkable and possibly be the impetus for additional development in the surrounding vacant lots (there are a ton of em!)

 

I can only imagine that the proximity to the park would lead to students hanging out there and studying on nice days, and retail occupancy would improve along the park as well making, again, the citys best features seem better. 

 

a few issues to me would be the lack of support infrastructure...construction might take a while as it would surely need to include a great deal of work including a garage as there is currently none in the area.  the other sites have garages.

 

this is a prime lot that could be made even more valuable once we have the high speed rail and cupputer rails and busway running.  so while the mass transit is a benefit to the school its also a benefit to some future office building or condo tower. 

 

locationally speaking... I think this might be the best so far (other than on Constitution Plaza) 

it all comes down to execution though.

[Luca Brasi]

I agree. I picture a new five or six story building built on the mentioned lot and a new parking garage with street level retail built on the Homewood suites lot. The busway runs within a block of this location which is a home run and it infills lots that have been holes in the streetscape for years.

[beerbeer]

One more thing about the Front Street location.

 

Where are new visitors to Hartford most likely to be? The Connecticut Convention Center, of course. So the neighborhood around the convention center has an oversized impact on the opinions formed about the city. A lively, fun Front Street filled with students will have a positive effect on the image of the city well beyond it's actual impact on Hartford. As Front Street becomes an additional amentity and desired place to visit,it will help the CCC to sell itself. And more visitors to the CCC enlivens Front Street which......success will breed more success.

 

No other location will have this kind of impact on visitors.  Allen Street or Main Street would be great for local businesses but its effect on visitors would be small. This is true of all the other locations.

 

Only Front Street can enhance the overall perception of the city in such a meaningful way. Only Front Street can bring more visitors to the city by enhancing the CCC epxerience.  The more I think about it, the Times Building should be the only location that UConn considers.

[The Voice of Reason]

Beer Beer, using the bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush axiom I would have to agree with you, but I am not a fan of this kind of thinking in city development.  it is this kind of thinking that has front street looking like a strip mall in the first place.

 

we we could look at exactly is planned for phase 3 at front street and what a final build out would look like at front street with and without Uconn, we could failry compare.

 

I truely beleive that a Front Street with 500 residents would be as vibrant as any other place.

if we got the version with 2 towers and 600 residents, I dont think there would be any question about the vibrancy of hartford to visitors....  Uconn is not the only way to creat that image.

 

 

Travelers, Hartford and the Wadsworth are redesigning tower street and their interactions with the street/plaza as part of iQuilt.

this current plan is to make this a plaza type gateway to the park gateway on Gold Street.  There are tons of rgreat ideas for this idea including reconfiguring both Travelers and the Wadsworth to be open to the street with retail for curbside eateries here and a possible ice rink in the middle.

the long and short of this is that there is already financial backing from Tarvelers, and this seems like it will happen.  this street WILL bring more street life and energy towards front street.  If Phase 2 of Front street happens even as currently envisioned, there will be retail on Prospect with housing above it.  this connection will further strengthen the plaza concept and connect that life to Front Street.  

 

So 100000 words later....

 

Any visitor to Front Street from the Convention center will surely see activity on Front street and will easily find the plaza.   wither the Hartford Times building is 200 apartments or a Uconn Branch I think will have very little difference.

 

again it comes back to one in the hand 2 in the bush.

 

we seemingly have 1 in the hand with Phase 2

we also have 1 in the hand with Uconn.  but whats in the bush after that?  Front Street would need more housing still Uconn would not necessarily fill retail space at front street because they are seeking entertainment venues not service industry tenents. 

 

I suppose its all splitting hairs

no matter which of the locations is chosen(besides the data center)

Hartford and Uconn both win.

 

In order for Front Street and Downtown in general to succeed long term we need some of these residential proposals to actually start and show proof of absorption.  then and only then will we have a vibrant city.  we need residents more than we need retail or even Uconn.  Wee need residents first, then we need street calking and pedestrian friendly environments, and that will lead to retail and vibrancy.

[beerbeer]

Beer Beer, using the bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush axiom I would have to agree with you, but I am not a fan of this kind of thinking in city development.  it is this kind of thinking that has front street looking like a strip mall in the first place.

 

we we could look at exactly is planned for phase 3 at front street and what a final build out would look like at front street with and without Uconn, we could failry compare.

 

I truely beleive that a Front Street with 500 residents would be as vibrant as any other place.

if we got the version with 2 towers and 600 residents, I dont think there would be any question about the vibrancy of hartford to visitors....  Uconn is not the only way to creat that image.

 

 

Travelers, Hartford and the Wadsworth are redesigning tower street and their interactions with the street/plaza as part of iQuilt.

this current plan is to make this a plaza type gateway to the park gateway on Gold Street.  There are tons of rgreat ideas for this idea including reconfiguring both Travelers and the Wadsworth to be open to the street with retail for curbside eateries here and a possible ice rink in the middle.

the long and short of this is that there is already financial backing from Tarvelers, and this seems like it will happen.  this street WILL bring more street life and energy towards front street.  If Phase 2 of Front street happens even as currently envisioned, there will be retail on Prospect with housing above it.  this connection will further strengthen the plaza concept and connect that life to Front Street.  

 

So 100000 words later....

 

Any visitor to Front Street from the Convention center will surely see activity on Front street and will easily find the plaza.   wither the Hartford Times building is 200 apartments or a Uconn Branch I think will have very little difference.

 

again it comes back to one in the hand 2 in the bush.

 

we seemingly have 1 in the hand with Phase 2

we also have 1 in the hand with Uconn.  but whats in the bush after that?  Front Street would need more housing still Uconn would not necessarily fill retail space at front street because they are seeking entertainment venues not service industry tenents. 

 

I suppose its all splitting hairs

no matter which of the locations is chosen(besides the data center)

Hartford and Uconn both win.

 

In order for Front Street and Downtown in general to succeed long term we need some of these residential proposals to actually start and show proof of absorption.  then and only then will we have a vibrant city.  we need residents more than we need retail or even Uconn.  Wee need residents first, then we need street calking and pedestrian friendly environments, and that will lead to retail and vibrancy.

 

200 apartments is 300 people or so. UConn is 3,000. The difference is HUGE. And it propels he 200 apartments. I can't believe you have an unshakable belief in "phase two."

 

Uconn and it's 3,000 people has the possibility to create a true cultural/entertainment district at the feet of the CCC. It'not spliting hairs, it's the difference between reaching critical mass and a fizzle.

[The Voice of Reason]

Beer Beer, Phase 2 is fully funded..  so yeah I am unshakable on that one.  it may not happen, fine, anything is possible, but I consider it a given at this point.  I just do.  I would actually say that if they were not in the market for the UConn campus they would already have started work.  but I think the campus possability is making them hold off for a possible redesign to compliment the campus.

 

and the 3000 is more like office tenents.  its HUGE dont get me wrong, but this part of downtown is not critical im my opinion, not as much as Allyn, or Main Street.  This is a new part of downtown in a way and it has zero residents right now.  in order for this to ever resemble an entertainment district it will need permanent residents.

 

If(when) they build housing on this development it will be the only housing in the area, so in my opinion it needs to be significant in order to create that critical mass.  I think, and incidentally, one city one plan agrees with me that this number is about 500 apartments for this part of town.

IF phase 2 is 115 apartments, ther will need to be about 385 more on the rest of the land to make this area really work.  That wont happen with the school here.  I also am fairly confident that wether UConn happens here or not, the residential development will proceed.  and this will draw additional retail.  Without UConn I actually believe that there will be a phase 2 and a phase 3 built here.  and within 5 years  I am confident they will include over 300 apartments between them and likely 80K more SF of retail.  IF a phase 4 happens (being housing above the existing retail, or housing on the Arch St lots, then I am certain there would be enough vibrancy here for the success for the project....

 

 

I am not at all confident of ANYTHING happening at 180 Allyn Street or 1000 Main Street for the forseeable future without UConn stepping in.

 

So, for the overall gain of Hartford, I prefer those two spots over this one... again depending on the design and implementation. 

 

I am not saying that Front Street is a BAD location, just that I prefer the other two spots. 

 

I frefer the corporate executives of Hartford to see the students, and that will happen better in the other locations.

[beerbeer]

Beer Beer, Phase 2 is fully funded..  so yeah I am unshakable on that one.  it may not happen, fine, anything is possible, but I consider it a given at this point.  I just do.  I would actually say that if they were not in the market for the UConn campus they would already have started work.  but I think the campus possability is making them hold off for a possible redesign to compliment the campus.

 

and the 3000 is more like office tenents.  its HUGE dont get me wrong, but this part of downtown is not critical im my opinion, not as much as Allyn, or Main Street.  This is a new part of downtown in a way and it has zero residents right now.  in order for this to ever resemble an entertainment district it will need permanent residents.

 

If(when) they build housing on this development it will be the only housing in the area, so in my opinion it needs to be significant in order to create that critical mass.  I think, and incidentally, one city one plan agrees with me that this number is about 500 apartments for this part of town.

IF phase 2 is 115 apartments, ther will need to be about 385 more on the rest of the land to make this area really work.  That wont happen with the school here.  I also am fairly confident that wether UConn happens here or not, the residential development will proceed.  and this will draw additional retail.  Without UConn I actually believe that there will be a phase 2 and a phase 3 built here.  and within 5 years  I am confident they will include over 300 apartments between them and likely 80K more SF of retail.  IF a phase 4 happens (being housing above the existing retail, or housing on the Arch St lots, then I am certain there would be enough vibrancy here for the success for the project....

 

 

I am not at all confident of ANYTHING happening at 180 Allyn Street or 1000 Main Street for the forseeable future without UConn stepping in.

 

So, for the overall gain of Hartford, I prefer those two spots over this one... again depending on the design and implementation. 

 

I am not saying that Front Street is a BAD location, just that I prefer the other two spots. 

 

I frefer the corporate executives of Hartford to see the students, and that will happen better in the other locations.

 

I bolded what I beleive is your key phrase. Unfortunately nothing will happen there for the foreseeable future  even if UConn moves in. Stick UConn on Allyn and it fills half that block or even all of it and it is still surrounded by surface parking lots. It does nothing to spur new growth but it helps some local businesses. Put UConn next to I-84 on Main. And you get another building on Main Street but again, it does nothing except help a couple of local business and north of the highway is still a wasteland. There is so much unused space around these sites they will simply swallow up UConn.

 

A while ago you asked what is the proper density for Hartford.  Do you think either of these locations impact the density in a meaningful way? I don't, not really. They just fill up a a surface lot in a sea of them.

 

Front Street is a completely different story. Talk about improving density.  Put UConn there.  It guarantees phase two gets built. It guarantees that Front Street retail will improve and perhaps even sell out. It will become one ofte most vibrant neighborhoods in the state. It will have the kind of activity that spurs other activity (the kind of density needed to create more density, if you will).

 

Urban planners talk about a "sense of place" which can mean many differnt things.  Front Street doesn't have one-yet. Add UConn and Phase two, and you get a place that is active, alive, cool, cultural. All of it walkable in minutes if not seconds. It will be high density -city density- not just in population and pedestrian traffic but in the large variety of activities.  And trust me, corporate executives will notice much more than students. 

[The Voice of Reason]

well, funny thing Beer beer,   is that the location on Allyn is actually identical to Front Street.

 

Allyn is already an entertainment district, Front street wants to be 

 

Allyn as an apartment proposal  Front Street has an apartment proposal

 

Allyn Street has additional nearby surface lots, Front Street has additional nearby surfact lots...

 

the biggest differences are the other nearby apartments already in existence near Allyn Street and the larger entertainment district already in place.

 

add a Uconn Bookstore and maybe a few leasable spaces and the area is undisputablely more vibrant that Front street with Uconn.

it also continues to have several nearby parking lots... but these are now smaller than 180 allyn, and they right sized for additional development. 

 

allyn also benefits from rail access and busway access.

 

I could legitimately see Allyn Street helping to get the smaller lots around 180 Allyn developed especially considering the planned apartments already in the area.

 

180 allyn street is the hole that kills development in the area and if it were filled through "an act of god" then the rest has a shot.

 

I firmly beleive that Front street will be developed since the state is already so heavily behind it

 

 

 

and not to stir it up, do you honestly feel differently?  do you feel like Front Street would be much less successful with phase 2,3,4 and 400-500 apartments?  than with Uconn? 

 

Also, with apartments above Black Bear and apartments in 370 Asylum and a school at 180 do you really think that wouldnt massively change the feel of this area?  the ammount of life at the park, the retail space along the park and along Asylum street? 

 

again, Im just happy it will be somewhere   as long as its not the damn datacenter

[beerbeer]

well, funny thing Beer beer,   is that the location on Allyn is actually identical to Front Street. Allyn is already an entertainment district, Front street wants to be 

 

It is in a sea of empty parking lots. Put UConn there and it will be across the street from three empty lots.

 

Allyn as an apartment proposal  Front Street has an apartment proposal

 

That is already a funcional building. I'm for the upgrade by it doesn't affect the sea of empty parking lots.

 

Allyn Street has additional nearby surface lots, Front Street has additional nearby surfact lots...

 

Those lots are tiny compared to the acres next to Main Street or the numerous large lots around Allyn. Put UConn at Front Street and it infills the development. Add phase two and you have packed dense district.

 

the biggest differences are the other nearby apartments already in existence near Allyn Street and the larger entertainment district already in place.

 

The point you keep missing is that the empty blocks all over the that area will take years and years to fill in and UConn won't make much difference. It won't change perceptions of the city.

 

add a Uconn Bookstore and maybe a few leasable spaces and the area is undisputablely more vibrant that Front street with Uconn.

it also continues to have several nearby parking lots... but these are now smaller than 180 allyn, and they right sized for additional development. 

 

I disagree. UConn just becomes an oasis in a sea of empty parking lots. It adds almost no density. It is overwhelmed by nothingness.

 

allyn also benefits from rail access and busway access.

 

Rail? For UConn or Alllyn. C'mon. And the busway may or may not succeed.

 

I could legitimately see Allyn Street helping to get the smaller lots around 180 Allyn developed especially considering the planned apartments already in the area.

 

Maybe yes, maybe no. The city needs to do this right. If it wates UConn, it is a huge missed opportunity. UConn has to be a home run.

 

180 allyn street is the hole that kills development in the area and if it were filled through "an act of god" then the rest has a shot.

 

I firmly beleive that Front street will be developed since the state is already so heavily behind it

 

 

 

and not to stir it up, do you honestly feel differently?  do you feel like Front Street would be much less successful with phase 2,3,4 and 400-500 apartments?  than with Uconn? 

 

Also, with apartments above Black Bear and apartments in 370 Asylum and a school at 180 do you really think that wouldnt massively change the feel of this area?  the ammount of life at the park, the retail space along the park and along Asylum street? 

 

again, Im just happy it will be somewhere   as long as its not the damn datacenter

 

We know that UConn will make a huge differnce at Front Steet. Heck, just fitting it in improves density BIG TIME.  And UConn will ensure that phase two gets built. Imagine a neighborhood with UConn, and 200 apartments!! I don't want just UConn at Front Street I want UConn and apartments.  And iInfinite Music and the movvie theaters and the Atheneum and the Science Center nd the Convention Center and the Marriott.

 

That has to beat the heck out of Allyn Sreet that will be UConn some five story buildings and lots of surface parking. This the map you posted a while back. Look at the surface parking around the proposed Alynn site. UConn would be a drop in the bucket, nothing more.

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/VOR_photos/NewBitmapImage-2.jpg

 

Look at Front Street. Puttiing UConn there fills in virtually everything from the Whitehead to I-84, from the river to Main Street.  After that there won't be anywhere else to build downtown except west of Main.

 

[Mikeellison]

The lot on the corner of Ann Uccello Street & Asylum street is the best site – across the park, XL center & a block from the train station; plus being in the center of town with the surety of filling up all the vacant retail spots in the old civic center – like the good old days. IMO, this is where they need to relocate the UConn campus.

 

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Welcome to the board Mike.

 

do you mean the lot with the for sale sign? 

 

it seems as though the state is seeking larger lots, so they dont want to build a high rise, and there would be no parking solution there, unless they did again, what we talked about with the potential apartment tower there and put the lot on Allyn behind the Bond Hotel

[The Voice of Reason]

So AI is definately out as it seems we already knew.

 

I wonder when we will hear more about this location thing... It best be soon!!!

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

http://courantblogs.com/ct-real-estate/hartford-times-building-backed-for-uconn-campus-relocation/

 

looks official.... good idea methinks.

[beerbeer]

I love the location choice but I don't like that the time frame is being pushed back from 2014. Still this will really give Front Street a mega-jolt of life and activity.

[The Voice of Reason]

OK, obviously this is a great location as we have discussed ad nausium, it is not my favorite

 

but now of course we move to the next phase of discussion....

 

 

First off, like Beer Beer Mentions, DAYM 2016-2017

thats a bit of a bummer in terms of urgency, but at least there is a better chance of doing this well rather than just quickly.

 

The historic facade will certainly look good on any websites or marketing material

 

Things that will happen when this School opens...

1: The little park between Wadsworth and City Hall will be the coolest place to hang out in the city (it already is pretty amazing BTW)

2: The ammount of pedestrian traffic between Front Street and the bus stops on Main will in faxt multiply

3: retail space will fill in fairly well at Front Street (how could it not?

 

Things that may happen?

1: Phase 2 becomes a larger project including additional housing?

2: Phase 3 would now become the Arch Street Parking lot area, and happen sooner

3: less total housing in this area than previously planned.

 

 

random statement

I HOPE UCONN INCLUDES A HOUSING ELEMENT

 

and I hope Phase 2 is expanded as a result of this move

[Hartfordfan]

i was hoping the brewary would move into the times building but uconn is not a bad idea.  i know alot of students hate that idea though.

[The Voice of Reason]

This brings up a good point... Where else is Hooker Brewing considering?  anyone know?

 

I will be curious to see if they have any other downtown locations in mind.

 

 

I also wonder how many downtown locations would suit the ammount of space they will be needing.

[beerbeer]

Union Station would be idea for the brewery.

[The Voice of Reason]

they need more space than that though.  

 

you need a ton of space for a proper brewery