Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville

[smeagolsfree]

This from WW at the Post. The reason I can say projects is there is another on in the works I cannot say anything about until it goes public. The below is 14 stories.

http://nashvillepost...xed_use_project

[timmay143]

Wow! So I guess the BP is gone? This is some nice density. Although, that intersection is not very pedestrian friendly. Way too much traffic there. Saw someone almost get hit there when I was in town picking up my tux at MW's which is on that corner as well.

[dmillsphoto]

[NashRugger]

If only a developer would offer MNPS up an amount they couldn't refuse for Hillsboro HS and move it.

That is a very nice development based on rendering alone.

[timmay143]

Here's the intersection and the pedestrian . She began walking and a car was turning right onto HR from RJR. Need more pedestrian awareness and less traffic.

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Here is the location of the proposed building.

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Just north of the RJR and HR intersection.

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

[dmillsphoto]

Southern Land is doing a lot of right things now. Elliston 23 is going to be gorgeous, and this looks absolutely fantastic. I would happily take 2-3 of these give or take 3-5 stories lining along 4th thru 8th Ave in SoBro... And I can't wait to see what the other is. However, I think they will need to do something to the roads to make these a little easier to swallow.

[smeagolsfree]

I posted this under projects outside of Davidson, but this is another project Southern Land is doing in Franklin.

[timmay143]

I also really like the reno to the strip retail and office building where they added lower ground retail in that area.

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

Untitled by timmay143, on Flickr

I posted this under projects outside of Davidson, but this is another project Southern Land is doing in Franklin.

I think I saw that when I was at Bricktops. This area came outta nowhere!! Crazy how much is there. CS is one of a kind. 20 years ago it was the Baker's farmland. Incredible.

Great job WW for the articles. Keep 'em coming!!

[ariesjow]

This proposal looks fantastic. It's well beyond what I could have imagined for that corner. I have been anticipating Green Hills going vertical.

[timmay143]

Does anyone ever think it could become a Buckhead-type area?

[smeagolsfree]

I think a mini Buckhead would be in order. Never like BH in Atlanta as far as height. I don't think, and hope not it would ever get that bad. There will have to be some major improvements to the traffic flow in the area before long. That is the main reason I avoid Green Hills like the Black Death. I have seen traffic backed up from the Mall to I 440 and down the exit ramp to almost West End. A number of people I talk to have the same feeling and would rather venture into Cool Springs than GH which is not really any better except the traffic flow is a little easier to handle unless its rush hour. Then all bets are off for either area.

[smeagolsfree]

Here be number 2

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2012/11/15/major_mixed_use_project_proposed_for_green_hills

[smeagolsfree]

This is the rendering of the proposed Courtyard by Marriott Chartwell has planned there as well.

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2012/7/3/courtyard_by_marriott_planned_for_green_hills

[BnaBreaker]

WOW! Those all look like phenomenal projects! We need to get a BRT line down this way!

[dmillsphoto]

WOW! Those all look like phenomenal projects! We need to get a BRT line down this way!

Never gonna happen. Hillsboro Rd is already crowded enough and a BRT would have 0 impact on that side of town.

[BnaBreaker]

Never gonna happen. Hillsboro Rd is already crowded enough and a BRT would have 0 impact on that side of town.

What makes you say that? It's the retail hub for all of Davidson County. Nobody has a need to go there?

Also, I refuse to accept the excuse that any of Nashville's roads are 'too crowded' for any transporation improvements, whether that is BRT or bike lanes, or pedestrian islands. Nashville has some of the widest, most car-centric roads of any city I've ever been to. It can be done.

Edited November 15, 2012 by BnaBreaker

[ariesjow]

Wow! A Green Hills Thursday Twofer.

These both look great. I'm excited to see more projects for Green Hills. I actually go to GH once or twice a week since it's only 10 mins away. The traffic rarely bothers me, but I usually take backroads (Estes, Abbott Martin, Lynnwood). I rarely access Green Hills from Hillsboro Pike.

[dmillsphoto]

What makes you say that? It's the retail hub for all of Davidson County. Nobody has a need to go there?

Also, I refuse to accept the excuse that any of Nashville's roads are 'too crowded' for any transporation improvements, whether that is BRT or bike lanes, or pedestrian islands. Nashville has some of the widest, most car-centric roads of any city I've ever been to. It can be done.

We're talking about a 4 lane that goes into a ditch from 440 up to Woodmont. Then has up-to-street parking in through GH. Don't get me wrong, I think it could be done, but will never happen. The entire stretch from White Bridge to East Nashville would cost $150M and I believe a stretch from 440 to Harding would be in the same amount and 3 miles shorter.

[UTgrad09]

Great looking projects. Like aries said, I've been waiting for the more vertical/urban Green Hills to start coming in. It's a very popular area with a very limited amount of space. It's about time.

Unfortunately, I agree with dmills, too, that BRT isn't going to be a reality for Hillsboro/21st. Too crowded and too narrow as it is. They need to work on the traffic flow issues in the heart of the district before worrying about something like BRT.

I've mentioned before that they need more actual cross streets. The combination of staggered intersections with Crestmoor & Glen Echo and Abbott Martin & Richard Jones create two extra traffic signals and a much longer "intersection" space where traffic gets clogged. I'd start with finding a creative way at alleviating those problems. I think Glen Echo/Crestmoor could be reasonably connected, with minimal casualties and expense (good bye CVS). I don't think the same could be done with Richard Jones and Abbott Martin without a significant amount of commercial carnage (I'd say no fewer than 3 buildings would have to go).

As far out as that may sound, I think it would be a more realistic solution than narrowing US 431 to 2 lanes to accommodate BRT.

Great looking projects. Like aries said, I've been waiting for the more vertical/urban Green Hills to start coming in. It's a very popular area with a very limited amount of space. It's about time.

Unfortunately, I agree with dmills, too, that BRT isn't going to be a reality for Hillsboro/21st. Too crowded and too narrow as it is. They need to work on the traffic flow issues in the heart of the district before worrying about something like BRT.

I've mentioned before that they need more actual cross streets. The combination of staggered intersections with Crestmoor & Glen Echo and Abbott Martin & Richard Jones create two extra traffic signals and a much longer "intersection" space where traffic gets clogged. I'd start with finding a creative way at alleviating those problems. I think Glen Echo/Crestmoor could be reasonably connected, with minimal casualties and expense (good bye CVS). I don't think the same could be done with Richard Jones and Abbott Martin without a significant amount of commercial carnage (I'd say no fewer than 3 buildings would have to go).

As far out as that may sound, I think it would be a more realistic solution than narrowing US 431 to 2 lanes to accommodate BRT.

[barakat]

I bet within 20 years, Hillsboro Rd from 440 to GH will be wider and with sidewalks. I could see street-fronting buildings stretching from Hillsboro Village to GH.

[timmay143]

I think a mini Buckhead would be in order. Never like BH in Atlanta as far as height. I don't think, and hope not it would ever get that bad. There will have to be some major improvements to the traffic flow in the area before long. That is the main reason I avoid Green Hills like the Black Death. I have seen traffic backed up from the Mall to I 440 and down the exit ramp to almost West End. A number of people I talk to have the same feeling and would rather venture into Cool Springs than GH which is not really any better except the traffic flow is a little easier to handle unless its rush hour. Then all bets are off for either area.

Yeah, figured the height was out of the question cause we can't even get height in DT . Not that it's bad.

Yeah, traffic and infrastructure needs a new plan for sure in the GH area.

[timmay143]

Never gonna happen. Hillsboro Rd is already crowded enough and a BRT would have 0 impact on that side of town.

What do you guys think about BRT lite? Something needs to be done IMO. I know we are way behind on MT in Nashville, but, IMO, it seems like some type of mass transit line could run down this all the way to Franklin. Would it have to be new construction for LRT? If so, where? Looking at the rail lines in place there's not one near this corridor. The one that runs to Franklin goes through CS. I know HR is low density in some areas, but what's the best mass transit for the area?

[UTgrad09]

What do you guys think about BRT lite? Something needs to be done IMO. I know we are way behind on MT in Nashville, but, IMO, it seems like some type of mass transit line could run down this all the way to Franklin. Would it have to be new construction for LRT? If so, where? Looking at the rail lines in place there's not one near this corridor. The one that runs to Franklin goes through CS. I know HR is low density in some areas, but what's the best mass transit for the area?

I think any sort of rail is even less likely. Like you said, no rail line runs close to there.

I think the best bet is to work on adjusting the traffic patterns, and utilizing alternate routes getting to/from Green Hills.

I used to take the 2 Belmont from school to Green Hills. It doesn't actually get on 21st/Hillsboro Rd until the end of it's route. It uses 16th/17th Aves, and then Belmont Blvd to completely avoid that mess. If you're going to Green Hills, there's no reason to wade through the Vanderbilt mess, Hillsboro Village mess, or 440/Woodmont mess trying to get there from downtown. There are alternate routes. If there was enough demand, you could have express buses that take the lesser traveled routes, taking both potential cars and buses off of the main route.

[Neigeville]

I think what Green Hills needs is better public transit in the rest of Nashville. A far larger number of people could use the existing bus line if it were more frequent and connected to a more comprehensive system, and if more people lived near frequent bus lines. The problem will solve itself if we just build more mid-rise apartments on or near arterials. Just building a BRT through Green Hills isn't going to make much difference because most people going there aren't going to be able to use it to connect to where they're starting from.

It's also a fallacy to think that traffic problems result from apartments, although advocates of single family housing seem to believe this almost universally. Green Hills is traffic hell because of the commercial development and the high school, and the poor road connectivity, it's not that densely populated. People who live in these apartments will be walking around the area more than driving, and may actually reduce traffic if they work nearby.

As for rationalizing the street layout, good luck with that. The more affluent the area the less likely you can do anything about it.

I hope to see some wide pedestrian overpasses in this area, that would help the safety and reduce the traffic, as currently people going from one side of the street to the other find it easier/safer to drive and thus contribute to the traffic. This kind of thing can be huge; in some studies 40% of the cars on a street are actually driving around looking for parking.

The area is compact and really people with multiple errands should be able to park and walk around, although with the current layout the vendors would not appreciate this as their parking might fill up with people not going to their store. The Kroger employs security guards to shoo bar patrons away in the evening, I've noticed. So it needs some rethinking on the parking front to reduce the cars just milling about the area.

[nashvillwill]

Neige,

One thing I've got to strongly disagree with you on is the pedestrian overpasses. For one thing, this gives the illusion that pedestrians are 2nd class. Also, it makes it physically more difficult to cross a street. I don't think that's the way to go.

I've been saying it for years on this forum and I will say it again. Nashville (TN, the South) has to end it's love affair with the center turn lane. From a traffic standpoint, it causes more problems than it alleves. From a pedestrian standpoint, it makes street crossings very intimidating.

Get rid of the center turn lane. Create a green buffer in between lanes. Add pedestrian "islands" where needed. The benefits are countless:

-traffic safety

-reduce driver confusion

-pedestrian/cyclist safety

-reduced curb cuts

-less mid-block accidents

-green space

-water runoff control

-reduced urban heat island effect (trees!)

The list goes on and on.