Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville

[AsianintheNations]

Alta Union update (from Ohio Ave, sorry for the obstructed view, was taking the baby for a walk and didn't want to actually walk on Centennial with a stroller). Not the colors I was expecting based on the renders, but I actually like the steel blue and brick red contrast (it isn't actually brick).

Found a more flattering view of Edison Park, by comparison to the weathered, windowless walls in the foreground. Although the wall has some pretty nice ivy going for it, and a heck of a lot more personality.

Finally, an example of one of the apparently trendy new black houses that I was talking about earlier in this thread when asking about trapping heat. This one's on Morrow. I'm not sure if there's just one builder who is putting these up, but they're huge even by tall skinny standards, have a combination of jet black and "natural" wood siding, and have entire walls without windows. Another set of four going up on Utah Ave in Sylvan Park has people on Nextdoor losing their minds. In this one, I really don't get the faded brick entryway. They should've just gone all-in and added more wood accents or something.

Edit: Here's the Utah Ave quadruplet. This terrible render (credit: Estately) that looks like it was made in Minecraft is what has made the rounds on social media, inspiring general rage against redevelopment and giving infill density a bad name. Rather than being situated in a  field of identical trees, it is actually nestled on a street of well-maintained one- and two-story houses and makes absolutely no sense in context.

This newer render (credit: StyleBlueprint - https://styleblueprint.com/nashville/property/4305-utah-ave-a-nashville-tn/) is more forgiving but the focal point is still a giant stone slab of a garage with a glass garage door to make it easier for thieves to check whether the resident's undoubtedly swanky car is parked inside or not. Conveniently ignores the three identical houses just feet away in every direction.

Edited July 3, 2021 by AsianintheNations

[GreenHillsBoy]

18 hours ago, AsianintheNations said:

Alta Union update (from Ohio Ave, sorry for the obstructed view, was taking the baby for a walk and didn't want to actually walk on Centennial with a stroller). Not the colors I was expecting based on the renders, but I actually like the steel blue and brick red contrast (it isn't actually brick).

Found a more flattering view of Edison Park, by comparison to the weathered, windowless walls in the foreground. Although the wall has some pretty nice ivy going for it, and a heck of a lot more personality.

Finally, an example of one of the apparently trendy new black houses that I was talking about earlier in this thread when asking about trapping heat. This one's on Morrow. I'm not sure if there's just one builder who is putting these up, but they're huge even by tall skinny standards, have a combination of jet black and "natural" wood siding, and have entire walls without windows. Another set of four going up on Utah Ave in Sylvan Park has people on Nextdoor losing their minds. In this one, I really don't get the faded brick entryway. They should've just gone all-in and added more wood accents or something.

Edit: Here's the Utah Ave quadruplet. This terrible render (credit: Estately) that looks like it was made in Minecraft is what has made the rounds on social media, inspiring general rage against redevelopment and giving infill density a bad name. Rather than being situated in a  field of identical trees, it is actually nestled on a street of well-maintained one- and two-story houses and makes absolutely no sense in context.

This newer render (credit: StyleBlueprint - https://styleblueprint.com/nashville/property/4305-utah-ave-a-nashville-tn/) is more forgiving but the focal point is still a giant stone slab of a garage with a glass garage door to make it easier for thieves to check whether the resident's undoubtedly swanky car is parked inside or not. Conveniently ignores the three identical houses just feet away in every direction.

I have several close friends in the immediate area and they are livid about this.  It is so out of scope for the neighborhood and have it on good authority that they are going to assign neighbors to picket this and hopefully deter buyers.  Anyone who buys will be a pariah in the neighborhood.  They have repeatedly tried to get the builder to agree to no more as this is now a done deal but the very vocal and active neighborhood is not going to go quietly on this.  There are signs that Richland Builders are not welcome in the area and they are all over.  

[AsianintheNations]

2 hours ago, GreenHillsBoy said:

I have several close friends in the immediate area and they are livid about this.  It is so out of scope for the neighborhood and have it on good authority that they are going to assign neighbors to picket this and hopefully deter buyers.  Anyone who buys will be a pariah in the neighborhood.  They have repeatedly tried to get the builder to agree to no more as this is now a done deal but the very vocal and active neighborhood is not going to go quietly on this.  There are signs that Richland Builders are not welcome in the area and they are all over.  

Agreed. I have no problem with modern architecture or mixing architectural styles within a neighborhood. But this is just in poor taste in so many ways, and also just a bad design (tons of unnecessary impermeable concrete for parking cars when there's already in aggregate an eight-car garage plus the oversized flat roofs that at minimum need to be covered in solar panels). There are also so many "blank slate" areas where I doubt anyone would care what gets built, like all the rezoned industrial areas in the Nations north of Centennial (i.e. where Alta Union is).

Edited July 3, 2021 by AsianintheNations

[smeagolsfree]

It will be rather difficult but not impossible to get a contextual overlay there but that is the only way to stop the mix in architecture styles. Since the tear down and rebuild of so many homes it has been sort of a blank slate so the developers have been able to do whatever they want to do.

See your Council Person Roberts and see what she can come up with but the Jen is out of the bottle.

[markhollin]

A WeGo transit stop is being built in front of Hillsboro High School at 3812C Hillsboro Pike.  A $2 million permit has been issued  for American Constructors to do the work.

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/permit-patrol-6-july-2021/article_6ccfcf68-db7c-11eb-882b-73773037c2d8.html

[Nash_12South]

31 minutes ago, markhollin said:

A WeGo transit stop is being built in front of Hillsboro High School at 3812C Hillsboro Pike.  A $2 million permit has been issued  for American Constructors to do the work.

More behind the NashvillePost paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/permit-patrol-6-july-2021/article_6ccfcf68-db7c-11eb-882b-73773037c2d8.html

I can't access the story, but $2 million for a transit stop? Even for Green Hills, this seems a little pricy. 

[smeagolsfree]

 Sort of like those million dollar toilet seats the army paid for back in the day. 

On a related note in that area the Walgreens or CVS whichever one is on the corner there pulled a grading permit for the old Krystal site, so the dog leg interchange should be moving forward soon.

[ThunderOne]

On 7/2/2021 at 4:01 PM, AsianintheNations said:

Finally, an example of one of the apparently trendy new black houses that I was talking about earlier in this thread when asking about trapping heat. This one's on Morrow. I'm not sure if there's just one builder who is putting these up, but they're huge even by tall skinny standards, have a combination of jet black and "natural" wood siding, and have entire walls without windows. Another set of four going up on Utah Ave in Sylvan Park has people on Nextdoor losing their minds. In this one, I really don't get the faded brick entryway. They should've just gone all-in and added more wood accents or something.

 

 

I guffawed so hard the first time I jogged by this house, it is so absolutely ridiculous looking, and shows the absolute anarchy of home-building in "new Nashville".  I had some family in town visiting and I asked them to "spot the problem" when driving down Morrow a couple of days ago. Needless to say, they quickly spotted it.

[downtownresident]

6 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

I can't access the story, but $2 million for a transit stop? Even for Green Hills, this seems a little pricy. 

It’s actually quite large, has multiple outdoor shelters, rideshare loading/unloading, as well as a permanent shelter/restroom. 
 

Edit: here is the permit document: https://epermits.nashville.gov/download.aspx?id=569990

And the site plan: 

Edited July 6, 2021 by downtownresident

[GregH]

I think an overlay would be a big mistake for the Nations. If there had been a contextual overlay 10 years ago, most of the houses of the people that live here now wouldn't exist! 

 

That Morrow house is indeed strikingly ugly though. Maybe the neighbors can find some solace in knowing their sense of style appears elevated by the contrast.

[AsianintheNations]

10 hours ago, GregH said:

I think an overlay would be a big mistake for the Nations. If there had been a contextual overlay 10 years ago, most of the houses of the people that live here now wouldn't exist! 

 

That Morrow house is indeed strikingly ugly though. Maybe the neighbors can find some solace in knowing their sense of style appears elevated by the contrast.

Yup, that's exactly it. In trying to keep out "bad" or "ugly" designs, I certainly don't want to inadvertently ally with NIMBYs opposing any and all change. I'm sure there are those who thought my house stuck out like a sore thumb as it was the first to be redeveloped on my block ~5 years ago (it looks pretty ordinary now). I like the charm of some of the older houses that have been well-maintained, but some people need to get their eyes checked if they don't see that there are tons of them that are exactly identical to each other, mass-produced in the same way the tall skinny houses are nowadays. And many that have been demolished were in very poor condition anyway. The mix of styles is actually refreshing to me - I think diversity of house styles, shapes, and sizes (along with a mix of rental vs. owner-occupied houses) does to some degree promote diversity of people as well. I can't imagine living in a cookie-cutter suburb like I grew up in, with an HOA (*shudder*) making sure your mailbox doesn't show any individuality.  And if the cost of that freedom is a few utterly ridiculous structures here and there, so be it. But I reserve the right to laugh at them! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but boy are some of these tacky.

What I do feel passionately enough about to write to the city about are the local sidewalks and crosswalks, and I periodically go onto hubNashville to complain about them. Crossing my fingers that at least a few of these get taken seriously. They did redo the 51st/Centennial intersection recently. I asked them to add a crossing at New York/54th/Centennial but they refused immediately, saying there wasn't an ADA-compliant sidewalk on the south side to connect it to (then make one??). So I pointed out that the painted crossing at Tennessee and Morrow is grossly non-ADA-compliant seeing as ... well, just see my photo of it below. They've left this request open, so maybe they're actually thinking about how to justify asking someone in a wheelchair (or stroller) to navigate this one.

Edited July 7, 2021 by AsianintheNations

[smeagolsfree]

That's just what I am suggesting. The problem with an area like the Nations is when you have zero overlays of any kind, anything goes and they missed the boat from day one. Back in 2012 or so when all of the tall and skinnies started being built you guys had a horrible council person that did absolutely nothing but protect the body shops along 51st. Those were the folks he was interested in.

It all stated on Michigan and spread westward. I remember taking drives over there and watching the progress and William said it would take decades for all of this to change and I disagreed with him and said at this rate the change will be rather quick in the grand scheme of things. I really do not think folks could have anticipated what was going to happen. I didn't like the tall and skinnies from the start nor did I like the Malibu or Catalina homes (whatever you call them that were being built) that were popping up all over town as they were out of character for Nashville and still are IMO. I said all along the epicenter would be 51st and Centennial.

Metro dropped the ball in so many ways, Sidewalks, utilities, overlays, planning, and the list goes on, not to mention poor leadership in the council, mayors office, and planning. I know this is all hind site, but not for me as I was bitching about it from the start. The developers should have been held accountable for their misdeeds and are still getting away with murder in this city. Some of the things some of the unscrupulous developers are doing are down right criminal in my book.

This is continuing into Charlotte Park which is a freaking disaster and an eyesore. Guys remember this is just my opinion and it could have been handled a lot better than it was.

[AsianintheNations]

Thanks for the prescient perspective and definitely see the wave spreading into Charlotte Park in an even more haphazard way. Current councilwoman Roberts is fine (sounds better than her predecessor) but also a real estate agent though, so there's a bit of a conflict of interest there when I see her name popping up on developments here and there - as in for sale by, not in her capacity on the Metro Council. As you mention, the complete makeover of the neighborhood was an opportunity to fix the sidewalks, utilities, etc. - and also make some semblance of bus stops (why do they allow parking in front of the bus stops on 51st? Why is the only seat at any bus stop in the neighborhood a tree stump that replaced an abandoned armchair?).

As I'm sure has been discussed before my time, the tall skinny architectural situation is a consequence of the road layout and zoning rules, and I don't think they'd have been built if there were (equally profitable) alternatives since it wastes interior space on long hallways occupying much of the width of the house. The square grid blocks make sense for a downtown but are too deep for single family homes - most cities would have another road where the back alleys are instead. Short of upgrading the alleys to streets so that houses can face them (in some places they're paved and in quite good condition), I guess the long skinny lots or long duplexes are here to stay as the only option to increase density. That or build up into the sky like that giant house on Morrow! It's tall but definitely doesn't have the typical tall skinny proportions - it's more like a wardrobe.

[GregH]

I don't like the aesthetics of the tall skinnies but the twofer HPR "loophole" is accidentally the best thing to have happened for house affordability in Nashville in decades.

[Bos2Nash]

On 7/6/2021 at 8:01 AM, Nash_12South said:

I can't access the story, but $2 million for a transit stop? Even for Green Hills, this seems a little pricy. 

There appears to be some significant underground utilities going in along the road stretch which may contribute to the cost. Also the cantilevered steel plus tempered glass canopies don't come cheap. But if we want a solid transit system, we also need to make the transit hubs inviting enough so that people want to use them.

Here is a snip of what the profile of the canopy will look like

Also, the actual transit center appears to be an actual waiting area and not just a useless admin structure.

Also I'm very happy they are actually providing a curb pull off for buses (and a small one for ride share) to get the vehicles out of traffic.

Here is the underground utilities being installed

[Nash_12South]

This is very impressive. How did they determine that Green Hills needs this level of transit hub? Are others going up around town?

[PruneTracy]

18 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

This is very impressive. How did they determine that Green Hills needs this level of transit hub? Are others going up around town?

Yes, the full plan is here:

Better Bus (arcgis.com)

[smeagolsfree]

1 hour ago, GregH said:

I don't like the aesthetics of the tall skinnies but the twofer HPR "loophole" is accidentally the best thing to have happened for house affordability in Nashville in decades.

I do agree with that however they could have been done a lot differently. I really wish there were a master plan done with Brownstone row houses in mind. You would have gotten a lot more density and a much better product in the long run, but again too many short sighted people in the day.

I dislike Hardee board and that fake wood shingle that is going on a lot of those homes. I know Bernard Weinstein that does architecture for Will Hostetler uses that stuff all the time and Will tries to keep things affordable but even the stuff he built over there has inflated to unaffordable amounts now. They just ended up with every Tom, Dick, and Harry building homes over there, and a lot of them were in it for a fast buck. There were a few good builders, but there were a lot of bad ones. Many of those homes will not stand the test of time. I saw a lot of shoddy construction.

There is nothing in that area or hardly anywhere in Nashville that is affordable now. the recent lumber increase has added an average of 36k to the price of a home.

[smeagolsfree]

I wonder how they determined the number of folks that ride the bus in Green Hills. I can see if for Hillsboro HS, and a few workers at the Mall, but the regular folks that live there, nottttttt. That's why it is always such a pain in the rear in to get in and out of that neighborhood.

 

Part of Coopers Grand transit plan to get people to ride a piss poor bus system.

[Nash_12South]

18 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

I wonder how they determined the number of folks that ride the bus in Green Hills. I can see if for Hillsboro HS, and a few workers at the Mall, but the regular folks that live there, nottttttt. That's why it is always such a pain in the rear in to get in and out of that neighborhood.

 

Part of Coopers Grand transit plan to get people to ride a piss poor bus system.

I have to agree. It's going to be a very limited number of riders using it, for a while. The closest residential folks (and that's not a lot within walking distance) are not bus riders.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Nash_12South

[markhollin]

43 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

This is very impressive. How did they determine that Green Hills needs this level of transit hub? Are others going up around town?

There are many service industry workers at the Mall who utilize the bus system, and possibly some students/faculty at the HS that may use it as well. Of course, the hope is that many more customers of all the retailers in that area would utilize, too---especially around the holidays. 

[MLBrumby]

Wow!  How did that happen?  I was typing a reply in another topic and then a message popped up at the lower right side of my screen.  Then I wound up in another topic.... worm hole? 

Edited July 7, 2021 by MLBrumby

[Bos2Nash]

19 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

I wonder how they determined the number of folks that ride the bus in Green Hills. I can see if for Hillsboro HS, and a few workers at the Mall, but the regular folks that live there, nottttttt. That's why it is always such a pain in the rear in to get in and out of that neighborhood.

 

Part of Coopers Grand transit plan to get people to ride a piss poor bus system.

I think this is more of a political move on Cooper's sake. he is working with a certain handicap. He wants to improve transit, but the state clearly doesn't want to help and he needs to change the perception of what transit aesthetically looks like. Also by placing a "nice" transit hub in front of the wealthier school, it could change that perception along with the stereotype that the bus is just for "the poor".

Just now, Nash_12South said:

I have to agree. It's going to be a very limited number of riders using it, for a while. The closest residential folks (and that's not a lot) are not bus riders.

LIke Mark stated, this will support alot of workers in the area. The residents will hold their nose up to the hub, but having this in place for when we get reliable transit is good so the fight can't happen later on. Although we will need to add additional stops because this stretch of road only has one stop as the bus route terminates at the mall (so dumb as it should at least go to Harding)

[Mr_Bond]

3 minutes ago, markhollin said:

There are many service industry workers at the Mall who utilize the bus system, and possibly some students/faculty at the HS that may use it as well. Of course, the hope is that many more customers of all the retailers in that area would utilize, too---especially around the holidays. 

Green Hills is the end of the #7 line.  Downtown residents have disposable income and may take advantage of bus service to the Green Hills area if the WeGo facilities are improved.  Remember, several downtown buildings and employers are encouraging residents and employees to have no car.  The shocking thing is that WeGo seems to be anticipating this demand.  Why the sudden spurt of forward thinking?

[smeagolsfree]

My question is which side of the street is the bus stop on? If this is on the High School side then it is suicide going across Hillsboro road. I would not ride the bus. 

Sorry Mel this is not a city you can live in without a car. I am not picking on you here I am venting at the idiots that think we can live in Nashville without a car. If these businesses are trying to fool people into thinking this when they move here then they have another thing coming. The time you will waste on a Metro bus will be extreme. Cooper has no idea what he is doing when it some to making buses work here. They will not work because they are stuck in the same blasted traffic that everyone else is stuck in and its only going to get worse.

Anyone that thinks they can make buses work in Nashville now is a MORON. I purposefully took the bus in NYC to see how long it took and it was a nightmare in the middle of the day with little traffic for NYC standards from Chinatown to the Highline. Forty five minutes! If I had talked the subway probably 15 including the walk to get there.

If you do not have a car in this city it will get old very fast. I want to go to the movies, but its not playing in GreenHills, but at Opry Mills, different bus and a lot further. I need to go to Target and not Green Hills Mall, different bus across town. I want to see a friend in Franklin, you can’t get there from here.