Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville

[Hey_Hey]

Here are some links discussing a proposed system in Austin:

Wired Magazine article - http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/11/austin-gondola/

Austinist - Be sure to read the comment by Jared Ficklin in the comments section. http://austinist.com/2012/11/15/transit_for_austin_gondolas.php

At the top of the page there is a picture of the route map of the proposed system. http://www.fastcodesign.com/1671214/a-mass-transit-proposal-to-connect-a-city-using-aerial-gondolas#1

I agree with the general consensus that the biggest obstacle to system implementation is the aesthetics of the cable. That being said, every system has certain downsides. Subways have long construction periods and incredible expense. Heavy rail or elevated rail is noisy, occupies real estate, is expensive, and certainly is not the most pleasing things to look at. Buses sit in traffic, have a stigma, and have a large workforce (expense) to support their use. BRT takes up a lane of traffic, is not necessarily cheap, and is dependent on a large number of employees.

I think we would all agree that these obstacles can be overcome, and, in fact, must be overcome for Nashville to truly thrive over the next few decades. It seems to me that on balance the cable system would have the fewest obstacles for a city such as Nashville.

It's relatively cheap - According to the articles previously cited costs run ~$12 million per mile. We could have 53 miles of a transit center built for what it cost to build the Music City Center.

Minimal land acquisition- Other than acquiring the parcels of land for the stations there will be essentially zero purchase of right of way. There may be some air rights that must be purchased if part of the project flies over privately owned land, but I envision most of the route being over roadways.

High volume, scalable capacity - Per the articles cited the capacity can be up to 10,000 people per hour. This can be scaled up and down by adding or taking away cars from the line.

Minimal employment - Relative to other transit systems the number of employees that would be required to run the system is relatively small. HR is incredibly expensive and subjects the system to work stoppages and escalating costs.

Branding opportunity- If Nashville (or Austin or whoever) implemented a true system of cable car lines then that city would become known for that system much like NYC is known for the Subway, San Francisco is known for its streetcars, and Chicago is known for the "L". Suddenly when people come to Nashville they would leave with something that will be talked about over and over again. The views of the city would be incredible.

No schedule - One of the draws to car travel is that it is completely flexible in terms of scheduling. If I want to leave the house at 1:15PM I can do it without any delay. If I want to take a bus downtown I have to know when that bus is coming and schedule accordingly. Even on busy bus lines and rail lines is relatively high transit use cities like Chicago the wait for a bus a or a train may be 10-20 minutes. With cable cars there is a consistent, regular delivery of vehicles every 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes, etc.

There's no doubt that there will NIMBYs that complain about the aesthetics. But like anything it's a cost/benefit analysis. What is the expected good of having a system of mass transit that would allow thousands upon thousands of people to get to work, shopping, and entertainment without using a car when compared to the complaint by some that it doesn't look good? The same thing can be said for the "L" in Chicago, yet I doubt anyone here would turn down an "L" for Nashville right now if it was given to us.

Nashville needs a true transit system, not a single line of anything. Single line transit is next to useless. Whether we choose BRT, light rail, cable car, or a combination of these, it is incredibly important to have multiple lines intersecting. A single transit line with 10 stations will provide 45 round trip combinations of origination and destination. Linking two transit lines with 10 stations each yields 186 possible round trip combinations of origination and destination. Three transit lines with 10 stations each yields 431 possibilities, and 4 transit lines with 10 stations each yields 776 combinations. It keeps going up with each additional line.

We need a modality that will allow for these connections to be made, and that's one of the reasons I was a fan of BRT over LRT. For the cost of one LRT line we could have two BRT lines. Assuming the figure of $12 million per mile is accurate for cable car, for the $174 million ($23.2 million/mile) that BRT will cost Nashville could have three 5-mile lines with 10 stations each. I'll go out on a limb and speculate that more people would use a three line cable car system annually than a one line BRT system. That doesn't mean I'm not supportive of the EW Corridor, but I think we need to investigate other ways to develop a fully integrated transit system that will truly serve the riders with multiple options.

[smeagolsfree]

Dont want to bust a bubble here but lets move the discussion to the mass transit thread as this has turned way off topic and those following that thread may want to discuss these options.

Great discussion and keep it going. Just on that thread.

[dmillsphoto]

Adding this here as whatever AmSurg wants, they usually get. Once we find the rendering we will post. A 4 story w/ parking deck at the corner of Burton Hills Blvd and Hillsboro Rd.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121207/BUSINESS/312060121/AmSurg-plans-new-HQ-Green-Hills?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cp&nclick_check=1

Edited December 8, 2012 by dmillsphoto

[smeagolsfree]

With this project, it looks like there will be a number of projects happening in Green Hills over the coming year.

 

Proposed are the following:

 

AmSurg  4 story building in Burton Hills

Southern Lands 14 story project @ Richard Jones and Hillsboro

The Proposed Green and Little mixed use project which woudl include a 10 story hotel, offices, retail and residential. (on planning Comm. agenda for this month)

A 4 story addition to the Village Green apartments

A New Courtyard Marriott

[East Side Urbanite]

I like this group of projects. Nice diversity of uses.

 

WW

[smeagolsfree]

Construction permit issued for Chartwell's CY Marriott in GH yesterday.

 

I look for demo work for the other Chartwell project DT to start right after first of the year.

[East Side Urbanite]

Chartwell land has long been fenced with work underway. So this is an additional permit. Agree with SFree on Chartwell hotel to start in early 2013 in SoBro.

 

WW

[smeagolsfree]

 

 

I decided to do one more pined thead for area west.

 

 

To start it off I took a little drive:

 

 

 

A drive through the Nations

 

John C Hayes project on Delaware

 

Gawd awful
 

Hodgepodge of new homes or under construction

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dmillsphoto]

Yeah that 16 unit building is a miserable sack off the side of the interstate. 

[smeagolsfree]

I have seen prison cells with more windows. That has got to be one of the worst buildings in town now. It certainly ranks in my top 5.

[ariesjow]

The prison cell windows are why I kept second guessing myself as to whether it was really residential at all. I kept passing it on I-40 confused. Finally, I decided to get off at the 46th Avenue exit one day to drive by and I was still unsure. Hopefully there are more windows on the back. I may swing by later to have a peak at the back to see. 

 

I am impressed with how the Nations/Historic West Town is quietly turning around. It's hard to believe it's the same neighborhood that was used as the setting for the trashy, rural Ohio town in Gummo back in the '90's. Anyone who has seen that film should be able to appreciate the improvements. I've driven through a few times recently. There are still entire blocks there awaiting remodel, but I think the neighborhood will have a solid future. It could benefit from more quirky neighborhood bars and restaurants like Stone Fox and some more sidewalks. 

Edited February 6, 2013 by ariesjow

[MLBrumby]

Why is that area called "the nations"?

[barakat]

I believe the name has been officially changed to "Westtown" or "West Town", but it was called The Nations because the streets are named after states of the U.S.  Go figure.

 

 

Why is that area called "the nations"?

[smeagolsfree]

Here are a couple of more explaNATIONS

 

http://wikimapia.org/8041412/The-Nations

[UTgrad09]

There is also something about it being the location where the Cherokee, Chickasaw, and Choctaw signed a treaty with settlers around Louisiana @ 62nd.

I have also heard that the streets were named after states in hopes of attracting people from "across the nation"...I suppose "nations" just sort of came out of that.

Btw, I do really like a lot of the single family new construction builds going on in and around the core.

[MLBrumby]

Ah... thanks.  I'll have to check it out next time I can get up there.

[Neigeville]

I believe the name has been officially changed to "Westtown" or "West Town", but it was called The Nations because the streets are named after states of the U.S.  Go figure.

The Nations is a much better name.  "West Town" is a name for a mall, not a neighborhood.  A really dull, characterless mall.

[BnaBreaker]

The Nations is a much better name.  "West Town" is a name for a mall, not a neighborhood.  A really dull, characterless mall.

 

Agreed. 

[ariesjow]

 

 

I decided to do one more pined thead for area west.

 

 

To start it off I took a little drive:

 

 

 

A drive through the Nations

 

John C Hayes project on Delaware

 

Gawd awful

 

 

 

 

Drove by to check out the back of this one yesterday. It looks just like the front, but there is one larger window by the door. Definitely an odd design. 

 

Also, I definitely prefer The Nations to West Town as well. Most people I know call the area The Nations, so I don't think the rebranding is sticking very well. 

[timmay143]

Yes, Nations >>>> West Town

[UTgrad09]

Most people I know call the area The Nations, so I don't think the rebranding is sticking very well.

I'm still not sure why the area needs to be rebranded. I understand, perhaps, if the hood is particularly nasty...but I never really thought so there...plus, there have been a number of hoods (particularly East Nashville and Germantown) that really didn't need rebranding at all...and look at them now. Of course, with the East hoods, there has been sort of a move to emphasize the individual neighborhoods (enhanced local identity)...but not much in the way of what I would call "rebranding." I don't see any real move to rebrand formerly not very well thought of areas like Cleveland and McFerrin Park...so why do it with The Nations?

sidenote...I think it would be a cool idea for that neighborhood to have lamp poles with the 50 state flags lining 51st...it would give it a cool and unique flavor, giving a nod to the state named streets.

[ariesjow]

I love the lamp pole idea! I would like to see more of those kinds of streetscape improvements in our urban neighborhoods. I don't think rebranding is necessary either, but it sounds like some realtors and residents thought it was to foster more interest in the neighborhood.

 

Brittle is also seeing an uptick in property sales in an area north of Sylvan Park and Charlotte Pike historically known as The Nations. Realtors and homeowners have in recent years rebranded the district as Historic West Town in an attempt to focus on its plentiful stock of historic homes rather than its past reputation as shabby.

 

http://www.nashvilleledger.com/editorial/Article.aspx?id=56220

[bwithers1]

I love the lamp pole idea! I would like to see more of those kinds of streetscape improvements in our urban neighborhoods. I don't think rebranding is necessary either, but it sounds like some realtors and residents thought it was to foster more interest in the neighborhood.

 

 

http://www.nashvilleledger.com/editorial/Article.aspx?id=56220

The Realtor spin effect is definitely going on here.  The emphasis on the word, "Historic" West Town is also noteworthy.  Yes, there are some historic houses in that area.  But to me it's like Germantown:   eventually, the proportion of new construction homes outweighs the existing historic homes. So even if the new construction homes have ersatz historic stylings, the neighborhood can become a fake historic neighborhood.  Sort of "histor-ish."  Still, I'll take it!

[East Side Urbanite]

No to West Town. Yes to The Nations. And, indeed, the street names of states did, in part, spur the name. The Nations sound distinctive and urban. West Town is too predictable. If you run across a realtor using that name, be polite and say you will do everything you can to prevent that name from becoming commonly used.

 

WW

[dmillsphoto]

Not a lot of info yet as to the type of development. I would probably venture a guess as to something like Gale Park. Core is developing.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2013/02/20/core-development-plans-new-community.html