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Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville


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The Tennessee Court of Apeals has ruled in favor of the Southern Land Group, allowing the project to move forward.

I had it before the media went live with it. Here is the Tennessean story

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2015/05/19/work-resume-southern-lands-green-hills-project-ruling/27579851/

 

I live less than a mile NNE of that site.  They (not necessarily Southern Land) need to just go on and build all the high-rises that they can, as fast as they can, so that G-H can get choked up to the point of becoming more a nightmare.  Then mabe they'll finaly get serious about funding the transit plan of G-H and modifying it for rail, by 2026.

 

Only issue I have with the Southern Land project is that they blast every morning at around 5:58 to 6:02.  That should not be allowed, even though it's before traffic picks up alongside the site at Hillsboro Pike.

-==-

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I wish I still had my traffic generation books. I would be surprised if a high rise apartment or office building generated much more traffic than a large restaurant or store. Possibly during morning and PM peaks, but certainly not during the day. Perhaps some of the other Transportation professionals in this forum could verify.

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I wish I still had my traffic generation books. I would be surprised if a high rise apartment or office building generated much more traffic than a large restaurant or store. Possibly during morning and PM peaks, but certainly not during the day. Perhaps some of the other Transportation professionals in this forum could verify.

 

Agree, agree, but those particular periods are critical with that dogleg of an intersection.  The city simply delays indefinitely doing what is necessary to even begin changes, until after the next 7 or 21 projects have been erected within that 1/2 mile-sq area, and it will become unpassable in 7 years, during those peaks.

 

The building needs to happen; traffic-mgmt. needs to happen.

-==-

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I wish I still had my traffic generation books. I would be surprised if a high rise apartment or office building generated much more traffic than a large restaurant or store. Possibly during morning and PM peaks, but certainly not during the day. Perhaps some of the other Transportation professionals in this forum could verify.

 

But cobbled-together spreadsheets are so much more fun than books. And free, too! Take that, ITE.

 

Assuming all of the 85,500 square feet is General Office (710) (some of it is retail, don't know how much) and the 301 units are High-Rise Residential Condo (232) then the project would generate 2,200 trips per day, of which 236 is in the AM peak, 242 is in the PM peak, and 1,722 is off-peak. That assumes no bypass, which the residential component will certainly have.

 

Plugging in some nearby land uses, a 48,000-square-foot Supermarket (850) (the size of the Whole Foods) would generate 4,908 total (163 AM, 455 PM), a 16-screen Movie Theater with Matinee (444) would generate 8,750 total (0 AM obviously, 324 PM), and a 1,200-student High School (530) would generate 2,052 total (516 AM, 156 PM). We're not going to talk about the 880,000-square-foot mall; it was in the mid 5-digits.

 

So anyway, it's far more dense than what was there, but in terms of traffic loads it could be (and is) a lot worse, particularly since this development is mixed-use.

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Change does stink for G. H. nimby's living near proposed 17 story building.  traffic is terrible and will still be terrible.  But what are the alternatives:

1.  Put it downtown - already more than a dozen apartments proposed or being built.

2.  143 duplexes in green hills -  two duplexes on every street in G. H.

3.  71 quadplexes in green hills - one per street in green hills

4.  have your adult kids live with you forever

5.  you can move out past franklin and commute 2 hours a day.

 

What are the advantages:

1.  there will be more mid rise buildings built in G. H. and maybe we will finally make progress on future mass transit to green hills

2.  If you live in one of these  new mid rises you may walk across the street to shop and finally lose those 10 pound 

3. your kids won't have to move in with you.

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Question for those of you who understand zoning better than I do.  

​The Charlotte Park area is beginning to get more attention, as there's little else left that's truly affordable.  The neighborhood is mainly brick ranches on 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots, and it looks like they're all zoned R10.  Does this mean that duplexes or two tall-skinny homes could be built on each lot?  If so, what's the chance that home owners would be successful in downzoning the area to RS in order to avoid financially motivated teardowns and the kind of infill that's haunted other areas of the city?    

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That is a great question for Brett. He knows the residential zoning very well. I would have to work too hard to get the info, and I am real lazy as of late.... Just not feeling great...

I do see the CP area getting more infill. The area I think is called West Park is in bad need of major urban renewal. This is the area between the Nations and Briley.

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That is a great question for Brett. He knows the residential zoning very well. I would have to work too hard to get the info, and I am real lazy as of late.... Just not feeling great...

I do see the CP area getting more infill. The area I think is called West Park is in bad need of major urban renewal. This is the area between the Nations and Briley.

You mean urban renewal in a good way, of course.

Hope you get to feeling better

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Question for those of you who understand zoning better than I do.

​The Charlotte Park area is beginning to get more attention, as there's little else left that's truly affordable. The neighborhood is mainly brick ranches on 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots, and it looks like they're all zoned R10. Does this mean that duplexes or two tall-skinny homes could be built on each lot? If so, what's the chance that home owners would be successful in downzoning the area to RS in order to avoid financially motivated teardowns and the kind of infill that's haunted other areas of the city?

It usually isn't in a property owners best long term interest to downzone their property. I get the desire to maintain the neighborhood character, but it is a hard sell to actually get people to add a limit on their property.

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Question for those of you who understand zoning better than I do.  

​The Charlotte Park area is beginning to get more attention, as there's little else left that's truly affordable.  The neighborhood is mainly brick ranches on 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots, and it looks like they're all zoned R10.  Does this mean that duplexes or two tall-skinny homes could be built on each lot?  If so, what's the chance that home owners would be successful in downzoning the area to RS in order to avoid financially motivated teardowns and the kind of infill that's haunted other areas of the city?    

 

Take a look at the new contextual overlay option. http://www.nashville.gov/mc/ordinances/term_2011_2015/bl2014_771.htm

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What exactly is going there?

 

Traffic.

 

Yep, the bane of urban traffic outside DT, that pretty much sums it up.  Hopefully the trend will escalate at least 4 or 5 more times around G-H, so that they can baste in a total lock-down.  This then can be a new "proving ground" for what should have been done to start, after it has become way too late to do anything about it.

 

As for that new construction site of which that farm_boy bestowed us a photo, it's to expand the mall at the western extreme (at Cleghorn and Abbott-Martin) by replacing the existing Dillard's, originally Cain-Sloan) with new retail space.  A new 2-story Dillard's is to be built on top a new 3-story parking garage, in addition to a new 4-story separate parking deck (sort of like the one built on the SE corner of the mall attached to the current Macy's, originally Hecht's).  The goal of the mall is to attract high-end retail, to target the uppities and the gentry.

-==-

Edited by rookzie
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Not sure if any of you have been on the site nextdoor.com, but we just moved to The Nations and joined the site and this is happening. 

 

https://thenations.nextdoor.com/news_feed/?post=9867418

 

From the post: 

"During last nights meeting developer Mike Kenner announced that he is buying property on the corner of 51st and Illinois Avenue (Anderson Windows and Patio Doors location) and intends to build a mixed use property that will involve 2000 sq. ft. of retail space and 20 – 22 residential units that are about 600 sq. ft. each and will be listed for $150,000 - $175,000. Surface parking only. Example sited was Burger up building in 12 South. He has provided the site rendering and residents are strong encouraged to provide feedback, in addition to get creative and post architectural designs you wish to see. (see bottom attachment .pdf file for larger image)"

 

Said pdf here

 

 

 

This post maybe could also go in the transportation problems thread but I put it here for now...

It sounds like this development is meeting some resistance:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2015/05/traffic-parking-worries-delay-nations-mixed-use.html

The project, being developed by Michael Kenner, of MiKeN Development LLC, was scheduled for a vote yesterday at the Metro Board of Zoning Appeals, but a letter of opposition from Council Member Buddy Baker, who represents the neighborhood, has convinced Kenner to defer the vote for at least two meetings to bolster more support.

 

screen-shot-2015-03-20-at-22859-pm*750xx

 

Is there some specific information available about this project?

Did anyone weigh in to the Zoning Board or Mr Baker about this?

Who exactly is opposing this and what are the specific issues?

 

Like I said if the issue is parking requirements, maybe I should move this to the transportation problems thread.  I could write my own long rant on parking mandates and the economics of private and public space but this (not very recent) blog post from Chad Grout does a pretty good job. Even though it was specifically written about East Nashville, the same principles apply elsewhere in Nashville:

 

East Nashville Zoning: Lose the Parking

http://urbangrout.com/east-nashville-zoning-lose-the-parking/

Edited by 37206dude
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Question for those of you who understand zoning better than I do.

​The Charlotte Park area is beginning to get more attention, as there's little else left that's truly affordable. The neighborhood is mainly brick ranches on 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots, and it looks like they're all zoned R10. Does this mean that duplexes or two tall-skinny homes could be built on each lot? If so, what's the chance that home owners would be successful in downzoning the area to RS in order to avoid financially motivated teardowns and the kind of infill that's haunted other areas of the city?

It is possible. Belmont-Hillsboro did this recently. You essentially need broad neighborhood support and then strong support from the district council person. Getting people to agree to it is the harder part as mentioned previously. In a place like Belmont-Hillsboro there is likely more value being "protected" than there would be in the area mentioned above. Down zoning from R to RS for homeowners who have property that is a tear down target will cut their value almost in half.

Question for those of you who understand zoning better than I do.

​The Charlotte Park area is beginning to get more attention, as there's little else left that's truly affordable. The neighborhood is mainly brick ranches on 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots, and it looks like they're all zoned R10. Does this mean that duplexes or two tall-skinny homes could be built on each lot? If so, what's the chance that home owners would be successful in downzoning the area to RS in order to avoid financially motivated teardowns and the kind of infill that's haunted other areas of the city?

It is possible. Belmont-Hillsboro did this recently. You essentially need broad neighborhood support and then strong support from the district council person. Getting people to agree to it is the harder part as mentioned previously. In a place like Belmont-Hillsboro there is likely more value being "protected" than there would be in the area mentioned above. Down zoning from R to RS for homeowners who have property that is a tear down target will cut their value almost in half.

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The brick ranch portion of Charlotte Park is safe for now.  The majority of the homes are well maintained and have decent square footage.  Houses that need a little work/updating are selling for over 200k.  Exit prices in the Nations are a good bit higher and the most developers are willing to pay for a building lot is about 80k per pad.  I doubt we will ever see many brick ranch tear downs, the numbers just don't work.  Also I highly doubt anyone in this area would be interested in down zoning their property for any reason, its a little bit of a different setting than Belmont-Hillsboro.

 

The other portion of the neighborhood between the park and Briley is a different story.  This was one of the worse areas of West Nashville, a good amount of the homes are nondescript and in bad shape.  The lots are zoned R8 and several of them are large enough to build four homes on, two front and two back.  I know of about 15 homes that are currently slated for demolition and I suspect 40-50% of the area will be razed in the next couple years.  There is also a handful of renovations in the area.  I'm rehabbing a house in the area that was built in 1996,  my list price will be 60 or 70k lower than it would be if it were in the Nations.

Edited by TMcKay9
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  • 2 weeks later...

There has been a lot of activity at the new 'Overlook at Nashville West' site ( 6834 Charlotte Pike ).

 

Outback Steakhouse previously announced they will be relocating there, after shuttering their West End Ave. location.

 

It looks like Cracker Barrel will be relocating there as well, according to this document: http://maps.nashville.gov/LandataReports/pud_names.pdf

 

The current location of Cracker Barrel, about a half mile west of Overlook at Nashville West, is problematic, due to a lack of a turn lane and the cluster of stoplights and I-40 ramps.  

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There has been a lot of activity at the new 'Overlook at Nashville West' site ( 6834 Charlotte Pike ).

 

Outback Steakhouse previously announced they will be relocating there, after shuttering their West End Ave. location.

 

It looks like Cracker Barrel will be relocating there as well, according to this document: http://maps.nashville.gov/LandataReports/pud_names.pdf

 

The current location of Cracker Barrel, about a half mile west of Overlook at Nashville West, is problematic, due to a lack of a turn lane and the cluster of stoplights and I-40 ramps.  

 

 

Former site of the "new" mid-1960s Howard Johnson Motor Inn (with its signature HoJo orange A-frame roof), which sprouted on that promontory on the then-new I-40, which at that time dead ended from the west at 40th Ave, between Delaware and Alabama Avenues. (as late as 1969).

 

That's some really needed progress at that site, still basically a rural pocket a half century ago.

 

 

--High on a hill--

--a temple of hospitality--

--the A-frame Gate Lodge its iconic shrine--

 

HoJo of West Nashville - circa 1968-1970

HOJOwest10_zpsukm21buf.jpg

-==-

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  • dmillsphoto changed the title to Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville

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