Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville

[bwithers1]

I think that to be fair, the Green Hills community plan that was created a few years ago gave most people the impression that zoning would not allow anything over 6 floors on Hillsboro. In reading over that document, I got the same impression until I read it more closely. What seems to have caught people off guard is the "fine print" language that allowed more height contingent upon a setback. I doubt that anyone who participated in that planning process a few years ago envisioned even six stories on Hillsboro actually happening, much less 22.

 

So people who are concerned about increasing density in Green Hills anyway are upset because while at least most other rezonings for more density go before the Planning Commission hearings where they have an opportunity to voice their concerns, this one was able to sneak through on a technicality because of that "fine print" language and therefore they do not have a legal venue for voicing those concerns. So "honk if you hate skyscrapers" is their only recourse at this point.

 

But if you go to any Planning Commission hearing where there is a rezoning proposal for Green Hills (you can read the comments for this Thursday's meeting already), you can can count on opposition from residents due to concerns about height, traffic, and density. They are opposed to most increased density - even lot subdivisions - pretty consistently.

 

The proposal for Woodmont/Benham, Graybar is pretty interesting in that the community meeting resulted in an abandonment of the proposed connection of Benham from Woodmont to Graybar for fears about traffic, and so Planning is instead suggesting a pedestrian/bicyle-only access street there where Benham would otherwise have connected the street grid.  That is the first time that I recall seeing that kind of proposal.

 

The bottom line is that many Green Hills residents want to keep the single-family home feel of the neighborhood, but there is little chance of that continuing much longer, at least not in the parts that are closer to Hillsboro.

Edited November 12, 2013 by bwithers1

[bwithers1]

When did "starter homes" start going for $275k to 300k? I was happy to buy my East Nashville fixer upper for under 100k in 2006 at the height of that housing boom.

I agree with you, but even in East Nashville, there is a big difference between the pricing for existing homes and new construction homes. I think that the Chicamauga Ave Townhomes across from the Eastland Kroger are priced in the mid-$200s. They are smaller, but they do have 2 car garages underneath off the alley. Otherwise, the lowest new construction that I have seen in the last year is $289. That's why in my neighborhood developers are paying as much as $165K for existing houses and tearing them down to be replaced by new construction at a much higher price. Several new construction homes in Eastwood have sold for around $450K. Even some of the ugly duplexes are selling for $390 each side. Up in South Inglewood, there is a development going in on Creighton off of Porter right next to the railroad tracks with each home selling in the mid-$300s. That's not a prime location.

 

In my experience, new construction homes sell at much higher prices per square foot even than 100% renovated existing homes. Folks who want the genuinely historic restored homes or especially the fixer-uppers are a totally separate market from the market for new construction. Lots of the families that I see moving in have children, so they want everything ready to go and don't want to hassle with replacing stuff or having tools lying around.

 

I'm still left wondering where all of these families "starting out" are getting the income that is required to pay the mortgage on a $300K+ house. 

Edited November 12, 2013 by bwithers1

[RandomHero]

I agree with you, but even in East Nashville, there is a big difference between the pricing for existing homes and new construction homes. I think that the Chicamauga Ave Townhomes across from the Eastland Kroger are priced in the mid-$200s. They are smaller, but they do have 2 car garages underneath off the alley. Otherwise, the lowest new construction that I have seen in the last year is $289. That's why in my neighborhood developers are paying as much as $165K for existing houses and tearing them down to be replaced by new construction at a much higher price. Several new construction homes in Eastwood have sold for around $450K. Even some of the ugly duplexes are selling for $390 each side. Up in South Inglewood, there is a development going in on Creighton off of Porter right next to the railroad tracks with each home selling in the mid-$300s. That's not a prime location.

 

In my experience, new construction homes sell at much higher prices per square foot even than 100% renovated existing homes. Folks who want the genuinely historic restored homes or especially the fixer-uppers are a totally separate market from the market for new construction. Lots of the families that I see moving in have children, so they want everything ready to go and don't want to hassle with replacing stuff or having tools lying around.

 

I'm still left wondering where all of these families "starting out" are getting the income that is required to pay the mortgage on a $300K+ house. 

 

I think there are plenty of people out there that can "afford" payments on a $300K mortgage. 

 

Are those same people saving for retirement, investing, establishing a rainy day fund, paying off large chunks of their student debt? That's another story. 

 

For some people what they can afford is based on their lifestyle and value system. For others it is simply how far can i stretch my paycheck month to month.

[nashvillwill]

Well, part of it may be a generational thing.

Traditionally, a started home was bought by a early 20's, freshly married couple. These days, many people are holding out into their 30's to buy a house and start a family. Many are in their 30's, and have established careers. Yes, they can afford to buy a modest home while still paying off student loans, building 401k, and saving for a family.

Not everyone falls into the same category, but a predominantly higher percentage of Gen-Y'ers are doing this, as opposed to generations before them. I expect the millennials will do the same.

Edited November 13, 2013 by nashvillwill

[timmay143]

Ahhh, THE NATIONS!
 
http://www.nashville.com/news/nashville-business-news/the-nations-neighborhood-in-nashville-sees-tremendous-growth

 

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/23951542/neighbors-in-the-nations-want-progress-without-problems

 
Although, this seems hard to imagine...
 

One developer has proposed building 63 single family homes on a vacant 5.5 acre lot at 60th Avenue and Morrow Road.

How?

[mirydi]

Ahhh, THE NATIONS!

 

http://www.nashville.com/news/nashville-business-news/the-nations-neighborhood-in-nashville-sees-tremendous-growth

 

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/23951542/neighbors-in-the-nations-want-progress-without-problems

 

Although, this seems hard to imagine...

 

One developer has proposed building 63 single family homes on a vacant 5.5 acre lot at 60th Avenue and Morrow Road.

 

How?

 

 

 

They could be going for a development like this. I'm not sure who the architect is for this project, but I like the use of multiple colors to give it that extra pop. Looks like they were aiming for some kind of LEED certification with the windmill on top of the green house.

Edited November 14, 2013 by mirydi

[Nathan_in_DC]

"These are geared for people making 45 to 60,000 a year," said Bill Hostettler from HND Realty, the town home developer. "But we don't want that," said a resident. "Ok, I'm happy leaving it a lumber yard," Hostettler responded.

 

 

Hah, I LOVE that response.

[Rockatansky]

 

 

Hah, I LOVE that response.

 

I don't get this. Are homes for the middle class (Davidson County Median Household Income is around $45k) not good enough for them? Or are they simply NIMBY and opposed to anything and everything?

[UTgrad09]

I don't get this. Are homes for the middle class (Davidson County Median Household Income is around $45k) not good enough for them? Or are they simply NIMBY and opposed to anything and everything?

 

Could be NIMBY, could be that they would rather not have that many houses crammed into that amount of land. Those are 3,800 sq ft lots WITHOUT any sort of parking or driveways figured in.

[nashvillwill]

I would guess that that statement is more of an anti-gentrification sentiment, most likely made by someone below that income level.

Let's be honest. Some people are hurt by gentrification. I would say (and I have no facts to back any of this up), that a high majority of people benefit from gentrification. But as property values and taxes rise and rents rise, some people are priced right out of their own neighborhoods. It's unfortunate, but true.

In Oakland, CA, I've seen organized groups, and advertisement, with the mission to prevent gentrification.

[Nathan_in_DC]

I would guess that that statement is more of an anti-gentrification sentiment, most likely made by someone below that income level.

Let's be honest. Some people are hurt by gentrification. I would say (and I have no facts to back any of this up), that a high majority of people benefit from gentrification. But as property values and taxes rise and rents rise, some people are priced right out of their own neighborhoods. It's unfortunate, but true.

In Oakland, CA, I've seen organized groups, and advertisement, with the mission to prevent gentrification.

 

That's exactly what it is. I saw TONS of it in Philadelphia. The way it worked there was as follows: development begins in earnest in a neighborhood; developer starts planning buildings in disused or underutilized blocks in adjacent neighborhood to take advantage of newfound desireability; politician or other individual with a vested interest in keeping the neighborhood at its low level stirs up discontent and resentment; a small, yet very vocal, minority do everything they can to sling mud on the plan.

 

How often are people actually forced to leave neighborhoods they have spent their lives in? And are the people that are being forced to leave grandma and grandpa who can't make ends meet, a family just trying to get by, or the type of people who do not necessarily wish to see a better neighborhood for reasons other than inability to pay new rents or taxes?  I know I sound like I'm coming off on the side of development (I am, I guess...), but this is an honest question, and I'd really like to see some studies done on it.

[nashvillwill]

Well, it may not be just grandma's and grandpa's in poverty, it may be people like you and me. Example;

I have friends that were early adopters in a hip nashville neighborhood. They bought their house for X dollars and their house is now worth Y dollars. Their direct quote:

"Sure, it's nice to have $100k (in equity) in my pocket, but my family is growing and I need to expand. But while my house raised in value, so did all the others around me. We can't afford the mortgage on a $xxx house. So now, our choice is to stay where we are (and be cramped), or give up on the neighborhood entirely."

It happens even to us hard working folk. I'm not saying I'm against it, it's just an illustration that it can be a problem for some people.

[TnNative]

Well, it may not be just grandma's and grandpa's in poverty, it may be people like you and me. Example;

I have friends that were early adopters in a hip nashville neighborhood. They bought their house for X dollars and their house is now worth Y dollars. Their direct quote:

"Sure, it's nice to have $100k (in equity) in my pocket, but my family is growing and I need to expand. But while my house raised in value, so did all the others around me. We can't afford the mortgage on a $xxx house. So now, our choice is to stay where we are (and be cramped), or give up on the neighborhood entirely."

It happens even to us hard working folk. I'm not saying I'm against it, it's just an illustration that it can be a problem for some people.

 

I can highly relate to your friends predicament. All your equity cancels out looking in the same neighborhood and the the orginal larger houses near the urban core have really appreciated. Let's not even talk about the new builds. There is an option of adding on I suppose. But then you might have to manuever through zoning if it applies. We'd be sitting pretty if we decided to move to LaVergne. lol

[Hey_Hey]

What your friends are forgetting is that the added equity will provide a much larger down payment which allows more leverage with their future mortgage.

For example (with rough estimates and round numbers):

If they paid $200,000 including a $20,000 down payment for a house 5 years ago they started out with $180,000 in debt and $20,000 of equity. Over that 5 years they paid down their mortgage so that they now owe $150,000. Real estate prices have increased for the neighborhood by 50% so now their house is worth $300,000. They now have $150,000 in equity.

They need to move up to a 4 bedroom house from their 3 bedroom which costs $350,000 in their neighborhood. They can then use the $150,000 of equity to put toward their new house which gives them a mortgage of $200,000 which is slightly more than before but they also will qualify for the best interest rates since they are putting a huge chunk of money down and no longer paying PMI.

The other option would be to add on which they could do with a home equit line of credit. With $150,000 of equity they would qualify for a line of credit of $60,000 which would likely provide enough to add on a room or two. As long as you don't sit in an overlay you can add on without any zoning interference (assuming your addition will be less than 73 ft tall and you aren't adding a second kitchen).

Edited November 15, 2013 by Hey_Hey

[bwithers1]

. As long as you don't sit in an overlay you can add on without any zoning interference (assuming your addition will be less than 73 ft tall and you aren't adding a second kitchen).

Even in a conservation overlay, an addition is generally approved as long as it is in the rear of the house and not visible from the street.  Attic build-outs can be done but generally cannot involve adding dormers to the front of the house (although shed-style rear dormers are usually fine).  In some cases, the MHZC can even administratively approve setback reductions at no fee, whereas the process of going through Planning or the Board of Zoning Appeals for that approval would cost over $1000.  Also, depending on the base zoning density, the MHZC can approve a detached accessory dwelling unit of up to 700SF for properties in conservation overlays.  This allows one to construct a "mother-in-law apartment" over a garage space which can be a great living arrangement for a parent, live-at-home child or other family member, or it can be used as a rental property to generate additional income, which can in turn be used to save cash for a remodel/addition to the house itself.  This flexibility is a positive aspect to conservation overlay zoning that doesn't get a lot of press. 

[borrowedwings]

Someone told me that Nuvo Burrito was closing both west and east locations..Can anyone here confirm this?

[dmillsphoto]

Someone told me that Nuvo Burrito was closing both west and east locations..Can anyone here confirm this?

 

Yes, they decided to keep their downtown location only.

[ariesjow]

Someone told me that Nuvo Burrito was closing both west and east locations..Can anyone here confirm this?

 

Yes. I heard the West Nashville location is already closed. While I'm excited about Hattie B's on Charlotte, I'm really saddened about the loss of Nuvo. We ate there almost every week. I'm a bit shocked they are closing the original Five Points location as well. 

[TnNative]

HCA drops West End site...to anchor mixed use project in North Gulch - Charlotte at 11th...

 

http://www.wsmv.com/story/24245943/hca-shifts-plan-for-200-million-development-to-charlotte-ave

 

 

HCA will invest about $200 million and will still plan to relocate about 2,000 jobs to downtown Nashville.

The project, for now, is expected to take about three years to complete and will be part of a larger 32-acre development called Capitol View that will eventually include offices, residential space and other developments.

[TnNative]

Okay, maybe not just in...ha...I see it was posted on the West End Summit thread...I'll get the hang of this one day!

Edited December 18, 2013 by TnNative

[MidTenn1]

If I'm an office worker in the new buildings, I'm not happy. There are no places to eat within blocks. But hopefully, some of the proposed mixed use development will provide some of that.

 

And traffic will be awful. The I-40/Charlotte interchange is one of the worst in the City.

 

Other than that, it should encourage northward development of the Gulch and stretch the skyline out somewhat.

 

PS; With this news, it may be time to start a separate "Capitol View/HCA" thread.

Edited December 18, 2013 by PHofKS

[MLBrumby]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but Blue Cross Blue Shield built their complex on about the same amount of acreage, and the result was a hideous collection of five five-story glass boxes (Duda-Paine) atop Cameron Hill.  They spent even more than $200 million over seven years ago. 

Edited December 18, 2013 by MLBrumby

[TMcKay9]

If I'm an office worker in the new buildings, I'm not happy. There are no places to eat within blocks. But hopefully, some of the proposed mixed use development will provide some of that.

 

 

Music City Pizza and Jack's are pretty close.  The M-Street restaurants in The Gulch and The Farmers Market will be a 10 minute or so walk depending on exactly where in the parcel the buildings are going to be located.  I do understand that 10 minutes is a long walk in Nashville terms but that slowly changing.  I would also think that the anticipation of 2,000 employes will speed up the rest of the development.

 

One would hope that as The Gulch becomes more dense that there will be a green circuit (which is almost always empty) type trolley or bus that runs from The Farmers Market through Capitol View, up 11th, left on Division to 8th and then back to The Farmers Market.

 

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but Blue Cross Blue Shield built their complex on about the same amount of acreage, and the result was a hideous collection of five five-story glass boxes (Duda-Paine) atop Cameron Hill.  They spent even more than $200 million over seven years ago. 

 

I agree, 11 acres is a large parcel.  I really hope this is not the case here but I wouldn't hold my breath.  I just hope its well placed within the development and doesn't look suburban.  Either way 2000 more employees in the area is going to be huge for The Gulch.

[UTgrad09]

As of right now, 11th is a very easy street to navigate. I imagine that will somewhat change with the NW Mutual development. But for right now, the Gulch offerings will be pretty easy to access for North Gulch workers. I would guess that would be a great site to put one of the bike rental racks, too. 

 

Also, the aforementioned Farmer's Market won't be far...and I would guess the North Gulch site will get its own share of restaurants, simply based on demand. I strongly doubt there will be a dearth of lunch places by the time the development is finished.

[CenterHill]

More from today's NBJ on development and timing:

 

Quote:

 

Jeff Haynes, managing partner with Boyle Nashville LLC, which is developing a 32-acre area of land in the North Gulch with Northwestern Mutual, said 10 acres of the land would be sold [to HCA]. But his group will continue to develop the remaining 22 acres into a mixed-use project alongside HCA’s Parallon Business Solutions and Sarah Cannon Research Institute subsidiaries.

 

“Our master plan will include restaurants, retail, office and multifamily in an urban, dense mixed-use project,” Haynes said. “We will be in a position to make a further announcement in mid-to-late January."

 

Haynes guessed that construction would begin in the fourth quarter of 2014 and be complete by 2016.

 

 

That's encouraging.     I'm all for "restaurants, retail, office and multifamily in an urban, dense mixed-use project."